Next project conundrum, M1000SSie DS or S4.

[Nasher]

I’m contemplating my next project, but am in no rush due to other things on the go.

I am still looking for an illusive bashed or crashed 999, but am also hooked on the idea of putting hoop suspension in a later Monster, and possibly adding some other retro M bits to it as well, like an early tea tray.

Having just completed my 1000SSie DS Project I’m hooked on that lovely motor, but for my plans a Monster to convert must be a conventional swingarm model, not a single sider, so there aren’t many around. I think they are just designated an S2????
There is just one on Ebay at the moment, and I’m tempted by it, but it’s @£1K more than I want to pay.

There do however appear to be more S4 916 Monsters about, but I can’t get my head around having all that ugly pipework down the left hand side of the engine. Interestingly the radiator doesn’t look too intrusive, being quite small and up high.

So to those who’ve had both, if I love the 1000CC ie DS motor, would I like the 916 S4 watercooled motor despite it’s ugliness?

The other thing to consider is that I may, I repeat may, have to sell my beloved M900 Carbie to make space for this project. In my mind a M1000ie DS does appear to be the ultimate classic looking Monster, and would replace the M900 nicely, especially if I swapped some of the special bits over from the old to new bike.
But I’m just not sure the S4 916 would do the same for my soul.

It’s not like I can go test riding bikes at the moment either.

Nasher.

[slob]

Desmoquattro motors are a bit more 'powerbandy' then Desmodue. They also feel a bit less 'lumpy'.
They don't pull so strongly from 2K RPM, if you want to really get up and go you need them over about 5K RPM, then about the RPM a DD is running out of steam, the DQ comes 'on cam' and your world gets blurred. Quite a different ride (and riding style).

[Albie]

I painted my s4 engine black. I loved it but wanted a new bike

[Darren69]

My S4 has more mid range than my old 900SS did, maybe not quite as much as a 1000DS (not owned one to compare) but they just keep going when the 2v has run out of steam.

[Mr Gazza]

Am I missing something here? Or is there something unresolvable about getting an S2R 1000 and swapping the bits necessary to create a carbie S2R900 and an M1000 hoopie.
I have it that the bearings are in different places on the the swing arm and engine on the two different models, but that is the only thing that would require the application of thought and resource.. Er.. Twice!
Oh and the exhausts might be a teaser?

How hard can it be.. :D

[slob]

No, the bearing are in the case on both those Monsters, there may be a small fiddle with chain alignment.
M1000s are quite rare, he doesn't want a SSS

[Darren69]

Nasher probably has his reasons for wanting to convert to hoop, but I always thought the later design was much neater. Why not put a 1000DS motor into the carbie 900? That would be easier I think. I think Bitza has done something similar with his to convert carbie to ie.

[Nasher]

Thanks guys

Putting a 1000DS motor in a carbie involves not only a complete strip down, but also changing the loom, and a lot of other stuff, which can obviously be done but is a pain, and although converting a single side arm'd bike to twin is doable, it's a lot easier to start with a conventional swing arm bike in the first place.

The conversion is then a simple case of welding in a tube and mounts for the hoop style rocker and bolting in a M900/851 ali arm, which I already have a spare of.
The welding isn't something I'm at all worried aboutl, so for me it's the quickest and easiest way to achieve the proper hoop type classic look with the newer engine etc.

Nasher

[350TSS]

Although I have never owned or ridden a 1000ie I have owned and ridden M900 and S4 Monsters.
The S4 is undoubtedly faster and works better on motorways it would hold 100+ speeds all day as long as your head and neck could take the buffeting. If most of your riding is on A and B roads particularly if you are unsure of the road itself then the M900 is a handier bike, more instant torque, lighter to throw around.
The S4 engine is definitely more refined, some might say sanitised, and as such in my experience a less rewarding experience. On my M900 I raised the forks through the yokes by 10mm which made the turn in sharper but you could really feel the front tyre when pushing on a bit. The S4 has a horrible handlebar design which did not permit the forks legs to be pushed through the yokes so there was always a certain vagueness in the front end feel and you could definitely feel the extra weight of the bike on ess bends.
Most of my riding is on A and B roads and the undoubted extra speed of the S4 is a bit superfluous.

[Darren69]

You could go down the ie to carbie conversion route as Buzzer has with his Multi and S4 bikes. So S4 it is then? I wouldn't worry too much about torque or lack of on those, mine puts out more than the 916 apparently. They are de-tuned more for mid-range and have the 748 close ratio gears, so it's all good stuff. Great fun to ride, if you can live with the plumbing.

[Darren69]

The S4 does really have horrible handle bars, so just get rid and fit clip ons with risers. A full hi level termi system and remap helps with the mid range a lot and I really don't see a standard 2v having an advantage there other than overall weight.

[Mr Gazza]

I think you are missing what I am suggesting here and taking the path of most resistance?

So you buy an S2R1000. Now you have an M900 and an S2R1000.

Put the single sider on the 900 engine and put it in the S2R frame.

Put the hoop arm on the 1000 engine and put it in the M900 frame.

Now you have to swap the looms over and probably the airboxes and Tanks, maybe some other stuff, but at least you will have everything you need, except the exhausts which will probably not fit the engines in the other frames.. Maybe an S2R 800 will fit the 900? But only an M1000 exhaust will fit the 1000 motor in it's new home or a bespoke one?

No frame cutting or bracket jigging required, except for maybe a brace in the airbox area on one or other frame and a little bracket or two.

Now you have a bespoke M1000 and a unique carbie S2R 900 which you can sell as you don't like single siders, but someone who appreciates the 900 engine and the nice spec of the S2R will snap it up as it will be better than an S2R800.

[Darren69]

What he said or, just pool your money that you would need to spend on buying 2 bikes and get a late model 851, same thing really and no messing about required! 5k would get you a nice one and you would likely spend that anyway but less likely to get it back, with some hybrid bike.

[Darren69]

Although I have never owned or ridden a 1000ie I have owned and ridden M900 and S4 Monsters.
The S4 is undoubtedly faster and works better on motorways it would hold 100+ speeds all day as long as your head and neck could take the buffeting. If most of your riding is on A and B roads particularly if you are unsure of the road itself then the M900 is a handier bike, more instant torque, lighter to throw around.
The S4 engine is definitely more refined, some might say sanitised, and as such in my experience a less rewarding experience. On my M900 I raised the forks through the yokes by 10mm which made the turn in sharper but you could really feel the front tyre when pushing on a bit. The S4 has a horrible handlebar design which did not permit the forks legs to be pushed through the yokes so there was always a certain vagueness in the front end feel and you could definitely feel the extra weight of the bike on ess bends.
Most of my riding is on A and B roads and the undoubted extra speed of the S4 is a bit superfluous.


I think neither Monster is suited to motorways but the S4 is certainly much more refined and a lot less stressed than the 2V at neck busting cruising at motorway speeds.

[350TSS]

What he said or, just pool your money that you would need to spend on buying 2 bikes and get a late model 851, same thing really and no messing about required! 5k would get you a nice one and you would likely spend that anyway but less likely to get it back, with some hybrid bike.

I think you would be lucky to get an 851 in good order for 5k and anyway buying is not the same as building

[Nasher]

Thanks guys.

Mr G I do know what you are suggesting, but I can't see how stripping two bikes to bare frames and building two hybrids from scratch and making parts fit both is easier than partially stripping one bike, welding a bit of tube to the frame(OK 3 bits of tube) doing a partial re-paint of the frame then bolting it back together with a different swingarm.

If I didn't have to work on my bikes in 1 or 2hrs slots I recon I could do it my way in a day.

Nasher.

[jerry]

S4 plumbing can be improved with Red silicone hoses or another colour ,, handlebars well I changed top yoke and put renthals on ,, S4 has a lot of potential ,, I love the instant warp factor 9 when one gives a heavy turn on the throttle ,, overtakes are instant ,, very different to my Carbie 750s ,, took me a while to get it to handle how I like but I have had it 15 years now with many many mods and its been fun so its a keeper ,, only problem is it in Thailand in bits awaiting reasembly after a refurb and im in UK ,,,ha ha