696 Front Indicator Issue

[velosam]

My friend has a 696. It has sequential LED rear indicators like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124380614784 The front ones are the standard filament bulb originals.

There's two problems, one easily (I expect) sorted, the other is a bigger problem and I wondered if anyone's had any experience of this?

1. Getting the flash rate sorted: I have a couple of resistors that can go into the loom to stop them flashing too rapidly.

2. The rear right and front right indicators work fine (apart from the rapid flash). The rear left works ok when the front left indicator is unplugged from the loom. Once you plug the indicator in, the rear left does not work, nor does the front left. I've tried a new indicator (with loom) and new bulb and get the same results.

[slob]

when you day tried new indicator+loom, do you mean changing the faulty rear unit?

(tbh at that price i’m surprised they work at all, even though they look quite good)

[velosam]

when you day tried new indicator+loom, do you mean changing the faulty rear unit?

(tbh at that price i’m surprised they work at all, even though they look quite good)

No, I tried a new front indicator. You may have a point that it may be the rear. I'm unsure if they're those exact ones, they look similar though. The bike came with them on, with a tail tidy. She may have the original indicators so could be worth looking to swap them back.

[slob]

the obvious next thing to try would be to cross wire the rear ones (quicker thsn s physical swap) to confirm the rear indicator itself is faulty, rather than how it interacts with the front one.

the fast flash is a little odd, my experience is that one normal bulb usually adds enough resostamve to sort the flash rate out, but as you say adding resistors is the answer. if space is at a premium, you might be able to combine the earths and add a single resistor.

[Darren69]

Have you tried the left side with both as standard bulb type lamps? If it works then it's probably some issue with the ECU/Dash circuitry being incompatible? As I understand it there's not actual flasher unit on these it's controlled by the dash.

[velosam]

I've got another friend who's au fait with bike electrics who's going to look at it, so I'm going to let him sort it out. Just wanted to check it's not something weird or specific to 696's that they don't like LED's or something similar.

It's not my area of interest or speciality! Plugging stuff into wiring looms / simple soldering etc. is as far as my expertise extends. Electrical diagnostics is witchcraft to me!

[velosam]

Have you tried the left side with both as standard bulb type lamps? If it works then it's probably some issue with the ECU/Dash circuitry being incompatible? As I understand it there's not actual flasher unit on these it's controlled by the dash.

I'll put that down as something to try. I think going back to bulb rears may be the easy option.

[Luddite]

Just wanted to check it's not something weird or specific to 696's that they don't like LED's or something similar.


The 696/796/1100 will happily run normal LED indicators - indeed, Ducati Performance did a set specifically for these models. I have some on my Evo and they came with four resistors, one for each lamp.

I agree with slob - normal LEDs should work without resistors if they are paired with filament bulbs. The thing to note about the 696/796/1100 is that the LED indicators only flash at the correct rate when the engine is running. If you try them with the engine off, they flash at double speed, even with resistors fitted.

So, if you haven't done so already, try them again with the motor running and see if the right side flash at the correct rate.

While normal LED indicators will work fine, I don't know about these sequential ones. As they continuously change the number of LEDs that are illuminated, presumably the power draw is constantly changing too. Perhaps the bike's electronics can't cope with that? I've no actual experience with this type of indicators though, so I'm only speculating.

[velosam]

While normal LED indicators will work fine, I don't know about these sequential ones. As they continuously change the number of LEDs that are illuminated, presumably the power draw is constantly changing too. Perhaps the bike's electronics can't cope with that? I've no actual experience with this type of indicators though, so I'm only speculating.

That's an interesting thought. I've got a couple of spare indicators, so they can be used to test out this theory.

I have tried it with the motor running, no change. I'd elsewhere (on here I think, before I got mine and joined up) that the indicators don't like functioning properly without the motor turning.

[350TSS]

Your last comment points to poor earthing, the earth lead is sitting on a layer of corrosion and when the engine vibrates the lead makes contact with the frame

[slob]

Your last comment points to poor earthing, the earth lead is sitting on a layer of corrosion and when the engine vibrates the lead makes contact with the frame

or a broken wire.

flasher relay on 620ie is on the circuit board in the clocks.

[velosam]

or a broken wire.

flasher relay on 620ie is on the circuit board in the clocks.

This is on a friend’s 696, not on my bike!

[slob]

not intimately familiar with 696 electrics but that generation of monsters have more reliable clocks than the first injected models

i misunderstood and thought you meant your indicators only work with engine running

[velosam]

not intimately familiar with 696 electrics but that generation of monsters have more reliable clocks than the first injected models

i misunderstood and thought you meant your indicators only work with engine running

Mine are all good. When I swapped mine over, it was a simple process with no issues.

I’m going to leave this problem with the 696 flashers for my friend to sort, but the advice from you all above is really helpful. Cheers.

[velosam]

I'm still chasing this one around. Managed to strip out the old rear indicators and bought some filament ones. The wiring at the back of the bike was a proper dog's dinner so I stripped all that back and got to a point where I was back to the original wiring.

Then tested the output on both sides of the bike:

Right indicator: 7-12v varying. Indicator flashes perfectly when running or bike off.
Left indicator: 1.5-3.5v varying. Indicator doesn't flash. When I plug the front indicator in, the current disappears.

I then checked the front indicator for continuity and there's no issue with the front indicator. But once I plug it in, there's clearly insufficient voltage to drive the front bulb, so that acts like a switch and stops any power going to the rear.

So where I've got to now is a mobile mechanic is coming tomorrow night - I've run out of time and desire to find this, it's not my bike - if it was, I'd probably spend longer doing it, but I've got my own projects to get on with, as well as a manic last week of work before the Christmas break, so I'll post up what the result is once he's diagnosed it.

[Luddite]

Very frustrating. But, at least you should have an answer soon. I'll be really interested to hear what your electrician finds.

[velosam]

Ok, so that wasn't as simple as planned!

Traced the issue back to a lack of output from the clock unit itself... and that's where things get interesting. The clock unit has been opened up previously - evident by a broken screw, damage around the edge of the unit where it's been prised open, some sealant around the edge of the unit.

Inspection showed nothing obvious, but clearly this is specialist territory. The ECU looks as though it's also been opened at some point too.

So the conclusion from tonight is that there's two plans:

1. Find another clock set from a 696 to try it and see if the problem is cured by another clock set - there's a micro-relay in there controlling the flash / power and it may be gubbed.

2. Send the clock unit away to a specialist to do a check over. The mechanic also recommended removing the ECU and sending that as well to be sure that the problem doesn't lie in there.

Anybody got a 696 in Central Scotland that I can try for 5 minutes?! Ebay is turning up nothing!

[slob]

for 696 clock repair have a chat with
https://www.scorpio-electronics.co.uk/

[velosam]

for 696 clock repair have a chat with
https://www.scorpio-electronics.co.uk/

Thanks slob - useful contact.

[Luddite]

Progress of sorts - but still frustrating.

It seems odd that someone would have been into both the clocks and ECU. Is there any suggestion that the bike may have been stolen/recovered?

Note that, if you do manage to borrow another dash, they are paired with the original ECU and keys so I don't think the immobiliser will disengage. It may still let you operate the indicators though (I'm not sure).

You probably know this already but, in case it's useful, the indicator output from the dash is 12 and 13

https://i.postimg.cc/SRYDjg6k/Photo-Note-1591477037490-png-8215.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Hope you get to the bottom of this soon.

[slob]

I know someone who has a full brand new set of clocks/keys/ignition/ECU/fuel cap/key card but I dread to think what the price would be

[350TSS]

Does anyone else think the design of electrical/electronic equipment on more modern motorcycles is crazy?
Failure of a 50p part leading to pain and anguish for the owner and possible need for replacement of the whole system. It is stealthy planned obsolescence and a purchaser of a new bike would have no idea that this nightmare was awaiting them or whether it would be any different if he or she bought another brand of motorcycle.

[slob]

Motor manufacturers take a very poor approach to component selection and interoperability, with each device required only to do its job and communicate with a canbus, leading to all sorts of possibilities of security flaws because no-one looks at or cares about the whole picture. I'm sure that will change at some point. Otherwise can you imagine the potential for 5G equipped autonomous vehicle hacks in twenty years time? if a few years ago we were seeing proof of concept attacks via OBD, now we can see drive-bys on near field tyre pressure sensors etc. not to mention most new cars having wi-fi these days! Twenty years ago you could unlock a top of the range BMW with a G-Shock watch (no butchered tennis ball required)

In this case, it's probably water damage to a surface mount solder patch. At least the clocks on 2nd generation monsters seem to be pretty reliable compared to their porous predecessors.

[velosam]

I know someone who has a full brand new set of clocks/keys/ignition/ECU/fuel cap/key card but I dread to think what the price would be ...hopefully it doesn't come to asking that question! I've got an email back from Scorpio, so the clock will be going there soon.

Does anyone else think the design of electrical/electronic equipment on more modern motorcycles is crazy? Yep. This is why I don't really like new bikes. Mine at a 2004 is pushing it tbh, although it's injected it doesn't have an ECU, so I've managed to rationalise that. Previously I've always been a bit "give me carbs and fuses" as you know where you stand (most of the time).

It seems odd that someone would have been into both the clocks and ECU. Is there any suggestion that the bike may have been stolen/recovered?

Note that, if you do manage to borrow another dash, they are paired with the original ECU and keys so I don't think the immobiliser will disengage. It may still let you operate the indicators though (I'm not sure).

You probably know this already but, in case it's useful, the indicator output from the dash is 12 and 13

I'm unsure if they checked it out when buying as to previous history. Nothing looks forced in terms of locks etc. I'm not sure though.

I did see somewhere that the clocks are married to the ECU, so repair seems the best way forward.

Thanks for the diagram - we traced the output back with the colour coding on the wires to get the correct wire at the back and got absolutely squat out of it.

[slob]

.... Mine at a 2004 is pushing it tbh, although it's injected it doesn't have an ECU,...

I'm afraid it does, there's a Marelli 5.9 under the tank just above the fuses, also married to the clocks and keys. I take hotel shower caps to protect the clocks when parked up outside while touring on my IEs

[velosam]

I'm afraid it does, there's a Marelli 5.9 under the tank just above the fuses, also married to the clocks and keys. I take hotel shower caps to protect the clocks when parked up outside while touring on my IEs

Noooooo! I didn't think it was that clever. But now you say it, yeah it has the red key and the card etc. I'm unlikely to ride it around in the rain, so hopefully it'll stay dry.

[slob]

I *think* I've managed managed to waterproof my clocks by stripping and carefully reassembling with a smear of silicone grease round the seals. So far so good, it's easy to disprove waterproof, not so easy to prove (until you accidentally disprove it, if you know what I mean). I've also had a faulty ECU repaired quite cheaply by www.avantiraceparts.co.uk when it lost a cylinder.

[velosam]

I *think* I've managed managed to waterproof my clocks by stripping and carefully reassembling with a smear of silicone grease round the seals. So far so good, it's easy to disprove waterproof, not so easy to prove (until you accidentally disprove it, if you know what I mean). I've also had a faulty ECU repaired quite cheaply by www.avantiraceparts.co.uk when it lost a cylinder.

I cycle as my main mode of transport to work so good lights are crucial - EVERYTHING gets silicone grease on the seals or any joint I can find. It's one of my favourite workshop consumables.

Thanks for the recommendation on Avanti.

[velosam]

Update on the saga...

Sent the dash off to https://www.scorpio-electronics.co.uk/ and just received a call to say that one of the chips in the dash is damaged. There's been water ingress at some point, which has caused a bit of damage to the circuit board. So the issue is really going to be finding the replacement chip (15+ year old technology isn't readily available).

Best thing is if I can find a dash... but they appear thin on the ground.

[Luddite]

That's a pain, Sam. Used dashes are hard to find and never cheap even if you can track one down. A quick internet search only threw up one in Hungary for €400.

https://emphu.eu/ducati-monster-696-2009/7822-ducati-monster-696-instrument-panel-speedometer-tacho-17k-40610715a.html

Alternatively, if it's just the indicators that are the problem, an autoelectrician should be able to rewire the indicators so they bypass the dash and operate through an external flasher relay. It should be cheaper than a new dash too.

[velosam]

Alternatively, if it's just the indicators that are the problem, an autoelectrician should be able to rewire the indicators so they bypass the dash and operate through an external flasher relay. It should be cheaper than a new dash too.

I came across something saying this could be an option - might look into it as the rest of the dash works faultlessly. Going to chat to some auto electricians and see if they can give a quote.

I'm kind of at a point where I just want it done so that it's sorted for my friend to ride and the simple the solution, the better.