Lost main beam

[johnboy44]

Hi, I have a 2012 M696 and for about a couple of months I've not been able to get the main beam to work either on the main switch or the pass, I've checked the bulb, I've checked the fuse, I've changed the relay, I've temporarily disconnected the battery and I've sprayed contact cleaner in all the connections yet It worked for 2minutes a couple of days ago then reverted to its previous state I'm running out of ideas does anybody have any suggestions please
John :banghead:

[Darren69]

I've seen another post recently with this issue, I think on an 1100 which may be the same issue you have. Sorry can't remember who posted it or if it was resolved. So you may have to search for it.

[Darren69]

I think it may have been this one, which I see you already posted on: -

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=58694&highlight=1100+headlight

Sorry if that was no help whatsoever :/

[johnboy44]

Thanks, I've been following and trying the advise but still none the wiser to my problem

[Darren69]

Yea, I have to say I've never owned one of those bikes and that generation of Monster has an added extra level of complexity which offers no incentive for me to do so, it doesn't add anything of value to the experience in my mind, just pain. I have no need of ABS or of a bike that needs to be ridden 500 miles before it decides how it will behave. Luddite is you guy on those bikes if you've tried everything mentioned maybe he will know.

[slob]

Got to say Darren, they ride really nicely compared to the v1.1 Monsters

[Darren69]

Maybe one day, you never know. I do have a soft spot for the 1100S as you know It's just the more complex electronics and the practicality of that put me off. I mean running the headlight from the ECU, what madness is that? Maybe save some wiring and a few grams of components. The early IE bikes are complicated enough for me but there are benefits that I can see more clearly for them, and it is not just for the sake of it so it makes a lot more sense to me.

Can you imagine what the latest ride by wire Panigale based bikes are gonna be like 10 years from now with all that robust Italian electronics and wiring? OMG

[slob]

The reason for the ECU controlling the headlights is that all bikes produced in/for Europe have the lights permanently on from 2004, the ECU kills the headlight when the starter is pressed, to reduce drain and supply everything to the starter motor, then turns the headlight back on.

[Darren69]

If Ducati had put better wiring for the starter circuit then it wouldn't be really needed? You've gotta hate those dictating Eurocrats but it does get around the issue I had with a car driver saying I didn't have my lights on in the dark when he pulled out on me. I got stung for 40% of the blame for that little incident because they couldn't prove it either way. BTW I did have them on but as I had pulled out a lorry that was behind me flashed him so he pulled out.

[slob]

wrong on two counts:
UK politicians are no different ;-) it was an agreement between manufacturers unless I’m mistaken.
The battery on Monsters is too small to start a big twin, for cosmetic/space reasons, no amount of ‘better wiring’ is going to fix that.

[Luddite]

You seem to have eliminated most of the components in the system, John, so there aren't many potential culprits left.

As the hi-beam won't work in either its steady or pass state, try checking the earth from the bulb. The connector will have a yellow/black (power) wire and a black wire, which is the earth. At the same time check you've got power in the yellow/black wire when the switch is energized.

If there's no power to the yellow/black wire, the problem could be the switch itself. Open it up, clean the contacts and check for power on the appropriate terminals.

[Darren69]

wrong on two counts:
UK politicians are no different ;-) it was an agreement between manufacturers unless I’m mistaken.
The battery on Monsters is too small to start a big twin, for cosmetic/space reasons, no amount of ‘better wiring’ is going to fix that.


Yea, it may well have been, I don't know. I know Triumph had tril it on some of their bikes which did I believe cause some starting issue. but from 2011 it is now law under European Directive 76/656/EEC

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/daytime-running-lights/daytime-running-lights

I don't think it is the battery that is too small, that's would indicate a storage issue which the current size of battery is fine if sufficiently charged and will be adequate enough but that's another well documented reg/rec issue altogether.

It is my understanding that the battery wiring gauge is too small. Many have reported improved starting by either bi-wiring or installing better quality battery cables. You can put as big a battery as you could but the amount of current flowing through to the starter is limited by the wiring, if the battery is that much too big then the wiring will probably break down or melt if the current can flow but the issue is that it can't. As any owner of any late 90's Ducati will tell you they know of Ducati expertise with wiring which is why much of it is underrated for its intended use and will burn out and melt given any chance of flowing sufficient current. Sorry for the highjack, rant over, back to our scheduled programming! :)

[Darren69]

*trialed it on some of their bikes...

[johnboy44]

You seem to have eliminated most of the components in the system, John, so there aren't many potential culprits left.

As the hi-beam won't work in either its steady or pass state, try checking the earth from the bulb. The connector will have a yellow/black (power) wire and a black wire, which is the earth. At the same time check you've got power in the yellow/black wire when the switch is energized.

If there's no power to the yellow/black wire, the problem could be the switch itself. Open it up, clean the contacts and check for power on the appropriate terminals.

I did check for power at the bulb but I used the earth cable for the other ide of the tester which wouldn't work if the earth was faulty ...... Better check that cheers

[Darren69]

I did check for power at the bulb but I used the earth cable for the other ide of the tester which wouldn't work if the earth was faulty ...... Better check that cheers

It's probably a good idea to fit some fly leads for a trickle charger to the battery as most do anyway and if you've not already done so. At least then you won't have to take half the bike apart to get to the battery.

[johnboy44]

That didn't work either but I have noticed the parking light bulb has blown, maybe that might have something to do with it , clutching at straws now

[johnboy44]

That didn't work either but I have noticed the parking light bulb has blown, maybe that might have something to do with it , clutching at straws now

[Luddite]

Frustrating :banghead:

So you've got a good earth but no power to the yellow/black lead? If that's the case then I think you need to open up the switch cluster and check/clean it out. If you've got power to the cluster, then that would suggest either the switch itself isn't making proper contact or there's a break in the wiring between the switch and headlight.

Good hunting!

[Paul_]

It will probably be the wiring into or out of the block connector on the left side of the headstock. Start by checking the block connector is installed properly and then continuity testing the wiring into that and onward from there if all ok.
The wiring may have rubbed through the outer sheathing or broken inside.

[johnboy44]

Cheers I will give that a try

[johnboy44]

Still banging my head against a wall, I have power at the switch and continuity to the 8pin connection behind the head stock, then from there the wiring diagram says the blue/yellow splits to the light and dash but I can't get any voltage or continuity from that 8 pin connection block to either, physically the wire looks to head back under the air box towards the centre of the the bike

[Mr Gazza]

That sounds precisely like what happened to me with my injectors.. Power and signals coming up to the connector but not coming out the other side when connected.
It would work when I sprayed switch cleaner into the pins and sockets, but failed again in minutes when engine heat dried the switch cleaner out.

Once diagnosed, I cured it by splicing new plugs onto the loom. It's a little different with the eight pin connector as its a slightly more complicated job and I'm not sure if you would be able to source a new plug and/or socket, but possibly a little micro-surgery on the pins and little tubes that they go into might sort the problem? You would only have to work on the one pin that runs the headlight.
Maybe try a squirt of switch cleaner and see if it works wet, although that won't be a permanent solution. Do make sure and wipe the connector face before plugging in to avoid any embarrassing short circuits.

[Darren69]

It looks like you have found what is your problem and it kinda makes sense to me now as Rob said the ECU switches the headlamp on and off so my guess would be those wires go back to it. So the handlebar switch won't do anything unless the ECU driver has been switched live.

I think those AMP plugs will come apart and you can get the pins out but don't ask me how, you will probably need a special pry tool to release the clip that holds each pin in the housing.

[slob]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36PCS-Car-Terminal-Removal-Tool-Wire-Plug-Connector-Extractor-Puller-Release-Pin-/353102380965

[Darren69]

Thanks Rob, I might invest in one. Do you know for certain that the Ampseal and other Ducati connectors are included?

[Luddite]

I think it's the dash that controls the headlight, (and the indicators), rather than the actual ECU and the wire that disappears under the air box probably goes to the headlight relay, (situated next to the ECU).

You say you have power at the switch and continuity to the 8-pin connector. Did you also check for power at the 8-pin connector? Continuity between switch and connector will tell you that the wiring is ok but, if the contacts in the switch aren't working, then you won't get power at the connector.

If the connector is powered then the problem must be either, as Mr G says, in the connector itself, or in the wiring from the connector to the headlamp itself.

If there's no power at the 8-pin connector, then the switch is the likely culprit.

[Luddite]

Thanks Rob, I might invest in one. Do you know for certain that the Ampseal and other Ducati connectors are included?

I think Tony's used these tools in his build so you could ask him if the appropriate ones appear in the eBay listing.

Now for the part I actually enjoy doing… the wiring! I am building this loom completely from scratch, save for things like the handlebar switches, although I am replacing the outer sheathing as it was tatty. I know this is something a lot of people struggle with but over the years I have developed a system… I start with a design in my head and I put it down in rough on my Ipad, using an Ipencil which I find brilliant. then I transfer it to visio, which I print out and add the colour of wires on as I go along. I don’t try to it all on one diagram like in workshop manuals, but keep separate pages for different circuits like lights, indicators, ignition… I also create tables of key components where they have pin outs.

All this is put into the build folder which I always pass on when I sell the bikes.

I have a nice crimp tool which is normally sufficient, but if I am in any doubt I put a dab of solder on the joint. I also don’t use pre insulate connectors, instead I put 20mm of heat shrink on which makes a nice joint, and the heat shrink also supports the joint. If you use the glue lined heat shrink, it also makes the joint waterproof. this is of course if I am not using super seal connectors which are not only excellent, but also cheap! and finally, I use the most useful little kit, which has tools for removing all types of pins from connectors!

https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/connector.jpg
https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/terminal-tool.jpg

[slob]

Thanks Rob, I might invest in one. Do you know for certain that the Ampseal and other Ducati connectors are included?

No, I bought a couple (one for a mate) after buzzer said he used them on his wiring loom
http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=58450&page=5 post #64.
I haven't had a chance to try it yet but I'm optimistic.

[johnboy44]

After another 3 sesh in the garage today with no luck, I decided to cheat I've spliced a new wire into the return from the switch and piggybacked it off the crimp on the main beam bulb in the head light running though the existing covers, seems to work

[Luddite]

Glad you've found a work around and well done on your perseverance :thumbsup: