Starting Problems - again

[mks]

Hi,
Not posted for a while as my m900 has been off the road for a year.

After charging the battery I tried starting the bike but got a rapid clicking noise from the starter relay. Not a single click but constant clicking until the start button was released.

Does this sound like a bad earth somewhere?
I have a spare starter relay which I tried but get the same result.

Any idea's what the problem could be?

This is a 1994 M900 so the wiring and connectors are very old.

Mark

[mickj]

Check the battery voltage, sounds like it could be shagged.

[slob]

Sounds like the battery is too weak to activate the relay and turn the starter motor, to be expected after sitting connected to a bike through a couple of winters.

[mks]

Are there any recommended Bike starters out there.
They are available for cars but don't know if these are suitable for bikes?

This would be a good way of taking the battery out of the equation and starting the bike?

[Darren69]

It does sound like a flat/dead battery since you've ruled out the solenoid. I can't comment on bike starters but a volt/multi meter would be useful.

[Luddite]

Are there any recommended Bike starters out there.
They are available for cars but don't know if these are suitable for bikes?

This would be a good way of taking the battery out of the equation and starting the bike?

I think all the booster packs can be used on cars or bikes.

Something like this? (Top-end, top price.)

https://www.motolegends.com/accessories/microstart-XP-1-power-charger.html

Or cheap(er) and cheerful...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FYLINA-Starter%EF%BC%8C600-800A-Booster%EF%BC%88-Waterproof-Flashlights/dp/B085H82S1D

[slob]

don’t they fry the cdi units on older monsters?

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=39560&highlight=booster
although i reckon the one vince linked to should be ok, it’s a slave battery rather than an industrial ‘booster’

[Mr Gazza]

Don't waste your money on a starter pack. Buy a multi-meter instead.
Your problem will be a massive voltage drop. One cause could be a battery which has lost it's "cranking amps" over the long storage. It might show 12-13 volts, but it will plummet when the starter is pressed. The other cause could be very high resistance in the starter cables.
The first course of action (and the cheapest) is to brighten up all the connections in the heavy starter circuit. There are three cables in this circuit; the thick ones about 1/4" or more diameter, so that's three ends to investigate. Your battery terminals are probably not too bad as you will have removed them to charge the battery, if not, do so. The worst one will likely be the one that bolts to the starter itself. Take care in removing this as the terminal post must not turn . Don't ignore the earth lead going down to the front of the engine or to the inside of one of the footrest hanger bolts.
All the contact faces of the terminals need to be polished back to bright metal to ensure a really good connection. Use wire wool, emery or whatever.

This is a good service item in any case, so not a waste of time by any means.
If this shows no improvement then it's time for a new battery... Simples.. :mand:

Cracked record alert!.. Are your timing belts over two years old? If so change them before trying to start it again as the 12 month lay up will have done them no good at all.

[mks]

Mr Gazza,

You may have knocked the nail on the head.

Charged the battery up and tested with a multi-meter = 13.5 volts

Just spent 3 min trying to start the bike but no luck.

Checked the battery voltage again and now down to 11:3 volts.

Is a voltage drop like this in 3 min to be expected?

[Luddite]

Mr Gazza,

You may have knocked the nail on the head.

Charged the battery up and tested with a multi-meter = 13.5 volts

Just spent 3 min trying to start the bike but no luck.

Checked the battery voltage again and now down to 11:3 volts.

Is a voltage drop like this in 3 min to be expected?

What you're seeing on the volt meter directly after charging is what's known as a 'surface charge' and is not a true indication of the battery's health. The fact that it's now dropped to below 12v suggests it needs replacing. If you charge it up again, take a voltage reading as you're trying to start the bike. A healthy battery will drop to around 9.5 - 10v while cranking and then recover to 12.5+v soon after. If yours is dropping to 8-ish v and not recovering, then it is probably beyond saving.

Many on here, myself included, would recommend Motobatt as a replacement.

[Mr Gazza]

Yes you have seen a big drop in the voltage in a short time and that pretty much condemns the battery. But the voltage drop that I was alluding to was as Luddite kindly explained, the reading when the starter button is pressed and the subsequent recovery or lack of.

To be honest I don't think you are going to achieve much with further tests. I officially pronounce your battery dead!

So while you're waiting for your new Motobatt to come, don't forget to have a look at those connections, as you will then be making the most of all those fresh cranking amps.

Just to reiterate my warning about the starter terminal bolt turning. If it does, it will rip out internal connections to the bolt and need a starter strip to fix, or an exchange starter (if there is such a thing?).

Old belts seem to be at their most vulnerable at the first start after a lay-up. It's not something I would take a chance on myself.

[manwithredbike]

Would agree that your battery is prob done. The rapid clicking you describe, or chattering as it is often described is the starter relay activating then deactivating as the voltage quickly dips due to the load, then re-activates as the voltage is allowed to rise slightly again, repeat, all in very quick succession.

[Ron1000]

+1 been there before. Battery is a goner

[iainw]

Mr Gazza,

You may have knocked the nail on the head.

Charged the battery up and tested with a multi-meter = 13.5 volts

Just spent 3 min trying to start the bike but no luck.

Checked the battery voltage again and now down to 11:3 volts.

Is a voltage drop like this in 3 min to be expected?

Put the multimeter on the battery whist it's cranking, if it drops below 11v then the battery isn't going to start it, it's toast. Try jump leads from the car to get it going.

Is it turning the motor fast enough or is it relly sluggish?
To test for a voltage drop at the starter motor then test across the battery +ve to starter stud and crank the engine, it should read no more the 0.6 volts.
If the results are massively high then there's a bad connection at the leads or solenoid.

Then test across the battery -ve to starter casing and crank the engine, it should read no more the 0.25 volts.
If this is high then there's a bad earth somewhere.

[Darren69]

If you're gonna jump it from a car, I think you shouldn't have the car running. The CDI units could be damaged (see Slobs #7 post). You might be alright if just using the car battery on it's own but I haven't read through the link in #7 to confirm what the issue was there.

[mks]

latest update.
Just used a battery from one of my other bikes and it turns over OK now.
So the battery was the culprit.
However, just noticed when I turn the ignition on, the only light on the dash to switch on is the green neutral light.
Checked all the fuses and non are blown.. No oil pressure, no charge light.

Probably a loose\broken connection some where?

MKS

[slob]

Charge light and oil light (and sidestand) share a connection, blue/black back to the lefthand switchgear and fusebox, I’d definitely recheck fuse #4

http://www.thelasturl.net/ukmoc/m900_wiring_colour.png

edit: Won’t be the fuse, as the neutral light is on the same fuse. Do the parking light work and/or indicators work ok? they take 12v from the l/h switchgear and flasher relay respectively.

[Darren69]

I like how you've coloured the wiring diagram, that does actually make it so much easier to read.

[slob]

yeah, the original was a bit awkward to trace.
right-click and save locally
i did it while trying to work out 350tss’ m-unit wiring

[mks]

More info:

Neutral light, horn, indicators, lights, stop light all work.

[slob]

in which case my money’s on a connector or break in the blue/black wire forward of the split, presumably the stand warning light doesn’t work either

[mks]

Slob - that's right, it does not work

[Darren69]

That narrows it down nicely for you then.

[The Clockie]

Just an observation: my Cagiva Raptor 650 steadfastly refused to start after some work on the shock and fitting a new battery. No sparks at all, despite the efi priming and the starter turning the motor. It turned out the fault lay in the first loom connector from the kill switch, wherein the terminals were corroded. The problem was absolutely nothing to do with the work I'd been doing on the bike!

Nick