Wheel balancing.

[utopia]

I've just fitted a new pilot road 4 on the rear wheel of my 750.
Tyre fitting is a careful diy job these days, since I fitted Dymag carbon wheels .. I'm not letting anyone else anywhere near them, which is fine cos most fitters feel the same.
In fact its a relatively easy process using the cable tie method and I usually don't need tyre levers at all.

Now to the nitty gritty on this occasion .. balancing.
In the past I have marked the heavy spot on the bare wheel and I try to match this with the light spot on the tyre, to minimise any added lead balance weight.
But it appears that Michelin don't mark the light/heavy spot their tyres these days, so it can get tricky to minimise the weights required.

On my first attempt this time, the balance was way out, needing over 60g to correct things.
I wasn't happy with that so I popped the tyre off the beads and rotated it 90 deg before refitting and trying again.
Tbh, I wasn't too hopeful that things would be much different but much to my surprise I found that I now only needed 5g to achieve near perfect balance.

There's a lesson to be learned there, but I'm not sure whether its that my technique and/or equipment is unreliable or that new tyres can be way out of balance from the factory.
Make of it what you will, but I thought it makes for an interesting "heads-up" in any case.

[Mr Gazza]

That's interesting but not surprising. The way the weights vary wildly every time I have a new tyre on, points to tyres being very different individuals regarding their weight distribution.

The tyre will weigh the same whether it's firmly on the bead and full of air or just laying loosely in the bead well... So it should be possible to balance it (statically) in this state and rotate the tyre to get the optimum balance before weighting it.
This depends to a large extent, I suppose, as to whether you have some centres that you balance on, or if you drop the wheel into the bike.
Even so there's probably no reason why you couldn't blow the tyre onto the rim in-situ, once balanced.
I know sometimes they need a couple of goes and some beating to get them seated right, so you won't get away with leaving it in the bike every time.

By the way, I remember you describing "the cable tie method" in a thread some time ago, but didn't pay proper attention at the time.. Do you have a link to it?

[350TSS]

Not sure if this will come out Number 743 from Slow Monster rebuild
Ordered my tyres a couple of days ago and they arrived this afternoon so I thought about a job I was not looking forward to – fitting them (without damaging the rims).
I saw something on YouTube about using cable ties so down to Screwfix for some industrial size ones (550mm x 9mm @ £13.50 per 100) and gave it a try.
https://i.postimg.cc/RZcTyT2t/IMG-2169.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ts4PVFqR)

https://i.postimg.cc/5ybJ5pcm/IMG-2170.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ft21DcR3)

It took about 5 minutes, no tyre levers were used, rim was “greased” with washing up liquid. It was good to do it on a box so that I could hold the far side of the rim and use my knee over the edge of the box to press the tyre on

No damage to the rim at all. It took far longer to get the bead to sit correctly on the rim so that it would inflate.
Doing it again I would use shorter slightly thinner cable ties

[mickj]

Try these Gazza

https://youtu.be/4-PD48uGl4o

https://youtu.be/U9MpgD-xIjg

[Dukedesmo]

With regards to the cable tie method, it is great when it works but can be tricky with some tyres.

Works best on wider (rear) tyres of the modern, soft variety but in my experience is a no-go on old style narrow and stiff tyres e.g. as on my old Moto Guzzi.

Definitely won't work on that - one needs to resort to good old 'BFI' (Brute Foce and Ignorance) to get those on the wheel, even getting the old ones off can be tricky - I usually resort to cutting them for fear of damage/injury... :chuckle:

[rollo22]

Make sure you get all the washing up liquid off it is known to rot rubber. High Ph value which will damage paint work. Which is why its a no no for washing Bike/Cars.

[Mr Gazza]

Thanks for the link Mick.. I hadn't realised it was that simple, even so the clever D!ck demonstrating it in the video managed to scratch a couple of lumps of paint off his rim!

I do have a lifetime's supply of tyre soap now after fitting the tyres on my new ally rims on the Commando.. I've always fitted my own tubed tyres.

I was seriously thinking of trying to fit my own tubeless, but I'm not sure? It's so easy to have them done properly for about a tenner a wheel and balanced on a machine into the bargain. Is it that much of a saving in time and money? Cable ties are not cheap and then there's the weights.. Do you buy a selection and hope for the best, or work out what you need and order?
What do you do with your old tyres? I just pay the "environmental charge" and they are disposed of properly (we hope and trust) by the tyre fitters.
Still balancing out to be better for me to have them popped on and off by a professional fitter..

(See what I did there.. :chuckle:)

[slob]

Could you lie the tyre on the ground, then stick a kitchen scale under one edge and rotate the tyre in steps to determine which point is heaviest?

[utopia]

In the past I have done as Gazza suggested and loose-fitted the tyre on the rim, then balaced it, observed the result and then rotated the tyre to the most favourable position.
It didn't seem to work for me this time though.
No matter where I positioned the loose-fitted tyre it seemed to be quite a bit out of balance.
In the end I popped the beads on in what I thought was the best position, but found that 60g was necessary to achieve balance.
I was clutching at straws from that point and only tried rotating the tyre by 90 deg out of desperation really, because there was no way I wanted 60g of lead on there.
I was most surprised that it worked.

My balance method is "off the bike" using a proprietary "spindle and cones" and a pair of adaptors which convert my paddock stand into a balancing stand, each equipped with two bearings to run the spindle on.
So, pretty reliable kit, I would say.

I think the error must be creeping in when I attempt to balance the wheel with the tyre only loose-fitted on the rim.
I'm slightly surprised by this but I can't see much alternative possibility.

I'm not sure that fitting your own tyres is worth the trouble .... unless you have carbon wheels which kinda forces the issue.
It does mean you can by tyres nice and cheaply from the likes of Oponeo though, and not then have to squirm and beg the local fitter to put them on for you.
Or, if you're going through a skint phase you can do like I did and search out a brand new PR4 rear on ebay for seventy quid .. plus the petrol to fetch it.
I paid even less for the PR4 front but I'm not going to divulge the shameful details of that deal on a public forum. :rolleyes:
There is also the satisfaction of doing it yourself, as well as the knowledge that you only have to trust your own work .. the Joey Dunlop syndrome, if you will.
It also gives you the opportunity to take the time to clean up the brake calipers and suchlike while you're in there

I use 370mm cable ties from B&Q, but doubled up cos they're not long enough on their own (for the rear at least .. can't remember about the front but I'll know in a day or two).
They're nice and thin but only just strong enough and I do break the occasional one.
I also only cable tie around half of the rim, usually five positions. Then I slip each bead on or off singly rather than both together like the guy in the vids.
I usually nip the central 3 ties up tight but leave the two outer ones slightly looser.
Its all about getting both beads into the very deepest part of the well on one side of the wheel, thus creating maximum slack diametrically opposite.
I have a pair of 3 inch plastic levers from a bicycle puncture kit on hand, but seldom need them much if at all.
And I use a proprietary dilutable tyre lube (like Gazza says, one purchase lasts pretty much forever) and I use it sparingly.
I also use an Abba bead breaker .. a piece of kit which I can recommend most highly, not just for its effectiveness (and gentleness) but also for its relative compactness and ease of storage in the shed.

I'm not sure that your kitchen scales method to find the heavy spot would be very accurate, Rob.
..... but I'll give it a go, or maybe adapt it, using a spring balance to lift the tyre off the ground at the bead.

Oh and as for balance weights .. I did buy some once but I also have a bit of roofing lead that I can cut into the required weight and attach using sticky rubber pads from the pound shop.
Its a neat and tidy method.

[ledheadlamp]

Not sure if this will come out Number 743 from Slow Monster rebuild
Ordered my tyres a couple of days ago and they arrived this afternoon so I thought about a job I was not looking forward to – fitting them (without damaging the rims).
I saw something on YouTube about using cable ties so down to Screwfix for some industrial size ones (550mm x 9mm @ £13.50 per 100) and gave it a try.
https://i.postimg.cc/RZcTyT2t/IMG-2169.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ts4PVFqR)

https://i.postimg.cc/5ybJ5pcm/IMG-2170.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ft21DcR3)

It took about 5 minutes, no tyre levers were used, rim was “greased” with washing up liquid. It was good to do it on a box so that I could hold the far side of the rim and use my knee over the edge of the box to press the tyre on

No damage to the rim at all. It took far longer to get the bead to sit correctly on the rim so that it would inflate.
Doing it again I would use shorter slightly thinner cable ties

I like the way you worked out this. Great pictorial explanation.