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EvoStevo
23-03-2019, 07:50 PM
Oil filter has failed so I need to replace it and the oil. Book suggests Shell Advance Ultra 4T 15W-50. What do you guys use?

Oh, and by the way K&N Filter?

Thanks.

Steve
2012 Monster 1100 Evo

Stevedesmo
23-03-2019, 07:53 PM
Seriously?

chris.p
23-03-2019, 08:51 PM
Motul 300V

Ron1000
23-03-2019, 09:14 PM
Motul 5100! I think.

Luddite
23-03-2019, 09:21 PM
On Moto Rapido's recommendation, I use Motul 7100 10w40.

The cheapest price for 4 litres at the moment, (including p&p), is £38 via Amazon.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MOUNTAIN-104092-Motul-Oil/dp/B00IKCY9RK

Darkness
23-03-2019, 09:30 PM
On Moto Rapido's recommendation, I use Motul 7100 10w40.

The cheapest price for 4 litres at the moment, (including p&p), is £38 via Amazon.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MOUNTAIN-104092-Motul-Oil/dp/B00IKCY9RK

Seconded, but I buy it from MotoRapido!

boris
23-03-2019, 09:47 PM
Used Shell 4T since venturing into Ducatiland 15 years ago..

BobT
24-03-2019, 08:28 AM
If the book says 15w50 then totally ignore anyone who tells you to use 10w40. They probably have a different engine to yours.
Providing you stick with a viscosity and a specification then the manufacturer makes no difference.

Nickj
24-03-2019, 09:01 AM
I did find this reccomended somewhere on the wub although there were no mixing instructions ...
ostrich lard, astro lube, and extra extra VIRGIN olive oil

I think that the extra virgin is the critical component.

An interesting aside on the Syth / non-synth debate...

In Europe Castrol won a court case which meant that Group III Mineral based oils could be termed "synthetic".
This gives you varied pour points (consider it how thick/runny the oil is at different temperatures) so Shell Advance Ultra 4 10W-40 is -30C and Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40 is -54C.
Which means the fully syth oils are runnier when cold, great thing when starting up on a cold day AND loose less viscosity when they get hot.

Having said that my last monster ran to 100K on regular changes of forecourt semi-synth. With any oil it's the change frequency that dictates engine life and to a degree the long term cost of consumables.
At peak I was changing oil at intervals of less than 2 months because I was doing some big miles (50 to 100 a day) so long term cost became a bit important!

At the moment I'm using Shell Advanced 4T as it was a bargain batch and I'm running next to no miles

holty
24-03-2019, 09:22 AM
The handbook does indeed say 15w 50 fully synthetic and I believe that this works in a wide range of circumstances this is what Ducati recommend and their partner Shell have available. However 15w 50 will rob power and on start up will flow much slower than 10w 40 - a more viscous oil is not a better oil and in fact it can be quite the opposite.
After much research into oil viscoicity I run fully synthetic Mobil one 10w 40 and change it once a year and or 3000 miles in my 1100ds motor. As for oil filters I fit OE Ducati because they are as good as anything? I have only covered 25k on this engine so to prove my methods it’s going to be a long wait!
If you are worried stick to the Handbook.

Mr Gazza
24-03-2019, 10:09 AM
Really intrigued by the statement "Oil filter has failed".
What does this mean? Has it failed to filter? Failed to stay on?
How was it's failure diagnosed? Is it a visible failure from the outside, such as a massive leak or burst? Or a forensic analysis after an engine seizure?

Yes definitely use oil.
Always remove the plastic film from the top of a new filter before fitting.

...and finally "Oh, and by the way K&N filter?".
A statement followed by a question mark.
So are you saying the filter that failed was a K&N and you question if this could possibly be the reason for the failure, or perhaps you are questioning how unusual it is for a K&N filter to fail.
Maybe you are stating that the filter in question is a K&N filter and the question mark is a typo.
Perhaps you are questioning the suitability of a K&N filter as a replacement.

Anyway everybody has had a jolly time quoting their choice of oil...Hope you are suitably confused.

Evostu
24-03-2019, 10:09 AM
I was told,by two ducati trained technicians ,that the book says 15/50 as it's a hotter climate in Italy and it stops the oil getting two thin,10/40 is perfectly adequate in dear old Blighty

Stevedesmo
24-03-2019, 10:46 AM
Those Italians hey, what are they like? Assuming that their bikes never go for sale in cooler countries and recommending an unsuitable oil for the uk........mama Mia!

I wonder if they considered the cold winters in Italy and a hot summer like we had in the uk last year when this global rule of thumb was developed?

Luddite
24-03-2019, 11:17 AM
Those Italians hey, what are they like? Assuming that their bikes never go for sale in cooler countries and recommending an unsuitable oil for the uk........mama Mia!

I wonder if they considered the cold winters in Italy and a hot summer like we had in the uk last year when this global rule of thumb was developed?

The 15w 50 figure is the 'one size fits all' recommendation but, if you actually look in the handbook, you'll find other viscosities also recommended depending on the prevailing ambient temperatures. As Evostu says, 10w 40 is fine for the UK.

https://i.postimg.cc/htTjv6RH/wp-ss-20190324-0001-2.png (https://postimages.org/)

Flip
24-03-2019, 11:55 AM
It's funny how times have changed presumably as lubrication technology has developed but looking through my 1997 handbook it simply says to use Agip 4T Super racing which back then was only available in 20w50 grade.

The maintenance schedule back then would have you changing the oil and filter every 3000 miles and doing a valve check at the same, this is obviously why back then Ducati ownership was out of a lot of peoples' reach.

So as oil technologies improved initially Ducati simply extended those figures to bring their running costs more in line with other manufacturers.

The one thing which spoils our old two valve motors from being as good as they can is allowing the valves to go out of their original tighter tolerances.

Incidentally, despite supposed lubrication improvements my old 1965 race bike still runs 20w50 (as recommended by the bevel drive experts) ensuring modern thinner oils do not by-pass things they shouldn't on start up. Obviously correct warming up is paramount not to incur premature wear.

I know when I changed to the Ducati recommended Shell Advance my bike would use a little oil between changes but strangely on Silkolene (same as I use on my race bike) it doesn't use any

So perhaps older Monsters benefit being run on their original grades?

holty
24-03-2019, 03:35 PM
All good comments, keep them coming.
So, i had the obysmal AFR sorted at the first service and have changed the oil (10w 40 fully synthetic) every 3000 miles.
Lougi Moto services the bike and I have never needed a valve shim. I put this down to regular oil changes and having the correct AFR.

holty
24-03-2019, 03:43 PM
P.s. do not be tempted by Mobil V Twin 20w 50 this is tractor oil and not suitable for high performance Ducati’s

I believe that is was developed for air cooled Harley Davison’s

Nickj
24-03-2019, 04:12 PM
Incidentally, despite supposed lubrication improvements my old 1965 race bike still runs 20w50 (as recommended by the bevel drive experts) ensuring modern thinner oils do not by-pass things they shouldn't on start up.

Tis a well known thing that, bevel motors like a bit of thick oil.
The closer you get to the equator the closer to raw tar you need to go :mand:

Dirty
24-03-2019, 11:39 PM
The only real advantage of a k&n oil filter is the nut on top which makes removal a little easier

As for oil, yes, use some.

Moco1961
25-03-2019, 05:25 AM
As for oil, yes, use some.

...will it make the loud rattle noise go away?

Darkness
25-03-2019, 07:52 AM
...will it make the loud rattle noise go away?

Possibly, but it may then smoke more on start-up.

Darren69
25-03-2019, 09:02 AM
Oh no an oil thread! Motul 300V was recommended to me by Neil at Cornerspeed for the 4v engines but may not be necessary for the 2v air heads the lower spec/cheaper Motul 5100 should be good enough.

Dirty
26-03-2019, 12:22 AM
...will it make the loud rattle noise go away?

Depends, does your bike have this optional extra?

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61gDN7qMJvL._SY450_.jpg

Moco1961
26-03-2019, 10:27 AM
How did you get hold of a picture of my bar ends !!:chuckle:

Dennis menace
26-03-2019, 11:43 AM
Beware of fake K&N filters, the web is full of horror stories about fake filters with poor threads.

BobT
26-03-2019, 09:43 PM
Oh no an oil thread! Motul 300V was recommended to me by Neil at Cornerspeed for the 4v engines but may not be necessary for the 2v air heads the lower spec/cheaper Motul 5100 should be good enough.
When the oil is holding the two bits of metal apart does it know how many valves the engine has?

slob
26-03-2019, 10:24 PM
no but a watercooled 4v will, in general, be able to run tighter tolerances than the air cooled 2v and will be less reliant on the oil for engine cooling

Darren69
27-03-2019, 10:07 AM
no but a watercooled 4v will, in general, be able to run tighter tolerances than the air cooled 2v and will be less reliant on the oil for engine cooling

Exactly..you can use the dearer stuff on a 2V if you wanted but you use the cheaper stuff, it will work just as well.

Rascall
29-03-2019, 03:31 PM
I use Motul 300V in my monster 900ie, 3000 miles between changes - overkill maybe on a 2 valve. I use Motul 3000 mineral oil in my Pantah 600 and change it every 1500 miles

Russell

EvoStevo
10-05-2019, 10:28 PM
:dizzy:

And there's me thinking I'd get a straightforward answer to the question :).

Oil sorted. K&N, proper job, fitted. No rattles, no banging, no smoke, just loads of miles around the Gloucestershire countryside :thumbsup:

Cheers.

Moco1961
11-05-2019, 07:12 PM
So the tension is killing me, what oil did you go for at the end of the day ?.

OliverMatt
20-05-2019, 06:04 PM
So the tension is killing me, what oil did you go for at the end of the day ?.

My friend usually uses Redline 20w50. He tells that he almost has no problems.

Darkness
21-05-2019, 09:15 AM
My friend usually uses Redline 20w50. He tells that he almost has no problems.

‘Almost’? That sounds a little worrying!