Fork cartridges

[rac3r]

Thinking about sorting out the suspension on the S2R. For the rear I'm thinking a Nitron shock or similar but for the front I'm not too sure. I've seen Andreani fork cartridges around the £400 mark, are they any good?

I know some people go the SBK fork route but I don't want to have to change the bars etc and also the risk of buying used forks.

(Bike is used only on the road for fun and I don't carry pillions. I intend to keep this bike)

[rac3r]

Anyone?

Would it be better/worse than a fork swap?

[Blah blah]

I don't know but how would these differ to a service / re-spring / re-valve at somewhere like MTC for a similar sort of cost ? Something I've been looking at the for the ST4s forks I have for mine (to be closely followed by a Nitron shock) when funds allow...

[rac3r]

From what I've read it seems nothing can really be done to the stock S2R 8 forks, unless i'm wrong? I'm all for saving money!

I too am looking to go for a Nitron shock at some point

[Blah blah]

In my simple mind, the outside of the forks are all pretty much the same and all they're changing is the internal bits - springs, oil and changing the valving.

MTC do some stuff, Maxton also seem to offer a new cartridge and springs for most, I have read from somewhere that the Andreani kits were supposed to be good (but I can't find that thread / website anymore) and others are presumably available - I've spent some considerable time looking into this and to be honest, I still don't know what I'm going to do... :banghead:

As for the rear, I was looking at second hand ST4s ohlins shocks and the like but people were asking £400 for them, and then they'd need servicing so it would end up costing more (and I'd have to find somewhere to put the remote reservoirs), so Nitron it will be.

[Nickj]

You can do something but probably not enough.

The spring, oil and air gap can be tuned, there's a lot of mileage in that from my experience with dirt bikes.
It should be possible to mod the dampers shim stack.

That just makes the best of what there is.

I can compare a good shock set up on my 748R to the standard S2R and yes it makes a difference.
Personally I'm not sure that the expensive of change would be worth the cost to try and get the S2R to handle half as well as the 748R, (shocks, lighter wheels, maybe a kiaymi frame and alloy sub to drop a few kilos)
Yes it would be nice if it were a bit better but both can hack along pretty well, both can be quick enough to be a hairy ride and hold their own, ones just faster ... just by a bit ;)

[rac3r]

Here are some prices I got

Maxton:
GP20 Cartridge kit fitted with new oil and seals. Adjustable for rebound damping only £560 + VAT
SD25 Cartridge kit fitted, fully adjustable £675 + VAT

Brook Suspension:
Andreani Cartridge kit £650 fitted (£500 without fitting) includes springs for your weight
Nitron Sport shock £438
If you buy both they will take 10% off the shock (£394.20)

I think I'll go with a cartridge kit and shock because the fork swaps are too complicated! I ride for fun and tend to cruise a long more and more rather than full attack so I think this may be the best

[Flip]

For what it's worth here is my experience of both Maxton and Nitron.

First of all on my 1997 900 Monster, when I bought it from my mate it was two years and less than a 1000 miles old, I also owned a 1996 GSX-R750 WT SRAD so was rather spoiled when it came to handling but the Monster was fun- just a lot slower by comparison.

I put up with it for a while as it wasn't all about speed but as I realised the Monsters' home was country lanes not the (at the time) three figure dual carriage ways of Sussex and Surrey that the GSX-R liked to play on it was time to try and do something to stop the Monster from kicking off bumps at the front and jumping me out of the seat in near equal measures.

So a Nitron Sport shock was ordered and I started playing with oil weights and quantities with the forks- I will say at this point my Monster was fitted with Marzzochi forks so things were somewhat limited compared to the more tuneable Showa options.

I also dabbled with an S4 around this time so had a comparison of the later type and I have to say it was a fair bit better to start with but I had fallen in love with air cooled 2v motor so the S4 was sold on.

The Nitron was fitted and it was an improvement but the front still kicked about when pushing on but over time I just kind of rode around the problem forgiving it as it was so fun to ride.

Fast forward to 2012 and I had started racing a 1965 Ducati 250 Mach 1 in a Classic club and I had a lot to learn about going fast on an old bike so after the first season I contacted Maxton who reworked the forks with GP20 cartridges and made me some lovely twin shocks to replace the aged Hagon items. It was a revelation and more importantly a feeling I could recognise and have confidence riding as fast as I could on -just the drum brakes to get used to after that :biggrin:

So 2014 and I was giving the Monster a going over and it was an easy decision to contact Maxton again to work their magic on the old Marzzochi's which they did with another set of GP20 cartridges and again what a difference- I honestly wish I had done it much much sooner.

No more kicking off bumps, our pot holed roads are no longer something to fear and the bike generally is a delight to ride either pootling through towns or pushing on a bit down the lanes.

On both bikes I went for the base level GP20's with adjustable rebound only and I have honestly never felt the need to adjust them as they are perfectly set up for what I use the bikes for- obviously suspension is a personal thing to a certain degree and some people can't resist a fiddle but remember too many adjustments can just as easy turn it into a horrible pogo stick of a motorcycle.

There is always Maxton's NR4 non remote reservoir mono-shock to consider perhaps (they'll discount with forks too).
Whereas Nitrons' Sport shock adjusts the rebound and compression together in a predetermined ratio the Maxton unit does them individually for a more accurate and personal feel but somewhat awkwardly you have to remove the spring to access the compression adjustment screw- you pays yer money and takes yer shock!

Anyways, Maxton and Nitron have fabulous customer service- I cannot recommend them enough- so much so that when my Nitron went back for a service and new spring to be fitted after ten years or so (I'd put on a few pounds ~ahem~) they fitted a new top mounting piece free of charge as it had been redesigned in that time to give better clearance.

The Magic 'M':
https://i.postimg.cc/xd8mcvrq/IMG-6386.jpg (https://postimg.cc/f34yP0Rh)

Shockingly beautiful:
https://i.postimg.cc/rwn0XDdT/IMG_6384.jpg (https://postimg.cc/K1Tvtvrp)

Forkin' Hell:
https://i.postimg.cc/FsCWqRH5/Maxton.jpg (https://postimg.cc/MvRmfzBd)

Ten+ years old:
https://i.postimg.cc/gJ6mw5tr/IMG_4016.jpg (https://postimg.cc/njZ6gdJt)

[rac3r]

Thanks for the write up!

Looks like cartridges is the way to go, I'll add it to my list of things to do. Slow and steady wins the race (and saves you from the wife)

[Luddite]

I've used both

https://i.postimg.cc/Zng5ffV3/WP_20180216_17_05_10_Pro.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

and

https://i.postimg.cc/DZwf7VNL/WP_20180927_12_30_21_Pro.jpg (https://postimg.cc/VS2PFhmk)

I'll second Flip's endorsement of Maxton and add my own for K-tech. Both companies offer their own cartridge kits so drop Chris at K-tech (enquiries@ktechsuspension.com) and Richard at Maxton (maxton@btconnect.com). Tell them what you've got now and what you're looking for and see what they suggest.

[rac3r]

I've emailed K tech, just waiting for a response

[Dukedesmo]

I always use Ktech for anything suspension related.

Both my Ducati forks; Showa on the Monster and Ohlins on the 916 have Ktech internals and both are a significant upgrade over the original configuration.

[Blah blah]

Group buy / ukmonster discount ?? :biggrin:

[rac3r]

K Tech never replied to me!

[chris.p]

K Tech never replied to me!

Possibly no one there as they are probably at the NEC for Motorcycle Live.

They do a special conversion on the 1100 Evo forks, and it is very good.

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=51391&highlight=K-tech

[utopia]

F G Gubellini used to do a kit for S2R (Showa) forks, comprising replacement comp and rebound pistons/shims and new damper rods.
I have one myself, but unfortunately I can't report on its effectiveness as its still in the box, awaiting fitment.
It will get fitted at some stage, possibly this winter, but that's partly because I'm a fiddler and I like to try to do things myself where possible because of the knowledge gained in the process.
My backstop plan remains a full re-cartridge by Maxton though, and that is probably the most effective way to achieve the desired result.
But my bike is a keeper (forever). I probably couldn't justify the cash for the full Maxton job otherwise.

From the Gubellini box, the S2R kit part number is FGKFS2RM.
I think they're pretty rare though .. my kit is the only one I've ever seen.
Mine was a stock clearance item and I believe I paid around £150, which would certainly be more economical .. if you can find one and don't mind fitting it yourself.
Though like I said, I have no knowledge of its effectiveness.

The general opinion seems to be that the comp damping of the std fork is way too harsh.
With this in mind, I might be inclined to try a lighter oil.

If the above makes me sound like any kind of suspension expert then I can assure you that while I might have a grasp of the principles I have very little practical experience, so judge my suggestions accordingly.

[rac3r]

K-tech said they have no products for my bike...

[Darren69]

The kits for other models lwith similar forks liike my S4 or the earlier S4R would probably fit? Dunno though just guessing.

[rac3r]

I'm guessing those are Showa whereas mine are Marzocchi I think???

Are any other Monster forks worth swapping to or are they just different levels of rubbish?

[Darren69]

I would think the Showa's (esp the TIn ones from the ST4S/S4 Foggy) are better than the Marzocci ones and should be a straight swap. They're still far from perfect however and would probably benefit from a Maxton conversion or similar. SS forks are the same size too so should swap over no problem. You just need to make sure the caliper lugs are 65mm.

[Jez900ie]

Hi!

Did you do the swap/ upgrade?

[rac3r]

Not yet, my plan is to get a nitron shock over the winter and do that bit first

[Jez900ie]

Not yet, my plan is to get a nitron shock over the winter and do that bit first

I just did that, and will let you know how that works for me.

[rac3r]

Yeah it would be good to know!

[chris.p]

rac3r not sure if your S2R is 800 or 1000, these are for the 800

https://www.andreanigroup.com/products/motorcycle/105%7CD02E/?CARTUCCIA+DUCATI+MONSTER+S2R+EVO+-++REGOLABILE

[rac3r]

Thanks Chris! Forks have fallen down the list for the moment but I'm sure I'll get around to them at some point