Chain rivet tool

[Mr Gazza]

Has anyone local got a chain riveting tool I could make use of at the weekend please?

It's a DID chain with hollow link pins that needs a conical head to bell the ends out.

I can come to you with the chain to nip the link on and make a loop, so your tool won't leave your sight.

Thanks chaps.. :biggrin:

[StevieL]

You're welcome to borrow mine Gary I run a split link so only need the tool to cut off lengths as and when required atb Steve

[Mr Gazza]

Thank you Stevie. You're a gentleman.
You might even be able to talk me into a split link.

[RossObey01]

I'm not home this weekend otherwise you'd have been welcome to use mine. I did however pick it up quite cheap, approx £40, and having done a few chains with it so far it seems to be good enough quality. It's not a genuine DID tool but a very close replica. I'll try and dig out the link if you're interested.

[Mr Gazza]

Thanks Ross.
I should buy one really but I got caught out. I ordered an endless chain, but it came split with a soft link. I would rather be fitting the chain than waiting for another tool to get lost in the post. The chain and sprockets were nearly two weeks coming, what with bank holidays and all.. :worried:

[Darren69]

Thanks Ross.
I should buy one really but I got caught out. I ordered an endless chain, but it came split with a soft link. I would rather be fitting the chain than waiting for another tool to get lost in the post. The chain and sprockets were nearly two weeks coming, what with bank holidays and all.. :worried:

I think they all come like that or otherwise wouldn't you have to take the swing arm off to fit one? If you had an SS you couldn't even do that! :rolleyes:

[Mr Gazza]

They are available in endless form, which is great as you can fit them straight out of the box, assured of a sound factory made join.
No need to take the whole arm off. Just slip the bottom of the hoop off and swing it back. Not even any need for that on post hoop models.

SS models would go through the arch I think, so would need to be joined on the bike.

[Darren69]

Never come across one that's already joined, but I'll take your word for it.

Did you get the tool you need?

I just had a look and saw these which seems a good bit kit for the money.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361790439423

Similar ones are 40 odd quid so I stuck one in my basket for next pay day.

[Mr Gazza]

Just an example. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-Honda-CB-250-RS-1980-1981-Did-X-Ring-G-B-520Vx2-098-Endless-Chain-is-the-/121818013943?hash=item1c5ceb60f7:g:mecAAOSwv0tU4gP n

That tool you linked to would be no good for DID chain, as the soft link has shallow counterbores in the pins (or hollow pins if you like), which need a 45deg. conical tool to just bell the walls out a little.

I've found that I can carefully press the link up in my vice and then punch the pins to make a nice secure job of it, where I can see it all round in a good light.
You definitely need the proper tool to do it on the bike though, or to split a link.

[Darren69]

Isn't the pin with the pointed end used to flare the pin heads?

[Dennis menace]

Yes, and you can overdo it and split the flared end so don't just grunt it up - do it a bit at a time. The job is fiddly, you need three hands, so I found it best to have the chain at 12 o' clock on the rear sprocket to hold the chain in place whilst using the tool.

[Mr Gazza]

Isn't the pin with the pointed end used to flare the pin heads?

I can't see a pointed pin in that particular kit. There is one with a large domed head, which I don't think would fit into the hollow pins?

The DID tool has a pointed conical head to match the internally machined angle in the pin's holes.

I don't think it takes much to flare the ends though... Probably a good source of motorcyclist's over thinking and worry?

That said, I'm trying to send the chain back, as the bloke in the shop said a VX-2 spec chain would be "Plenty good enough for an old Monster".
DID say that VX-2 is okay for machines up to 750cc. So I'm going to try and swap it for a ZVM-X instead... Interested to see if they play ball.

[Darren69]

Yea, I've done a few before and as Dennis pointed out they are surprisingly very soft and easy to peen over even with basic hand tools. Once again your knowledge of technical chain specs surpasses mine as I didn't know there were differing DID X ring specs for 750 and >750.

I suppose you could argue that a 900 is probably the equal power wise of most equivalent era Jap 750's anyway so it should be ok to use on a 80bhp bike?

[utopia]

I notice that you're toying with fitting a split link, Gazza.
I'll just say that I've run them on all my previous bikes which had old style, non o-ring links with no issues whatsoever.
However, the one on my monster, which has an o-ring DID chain, and was assembled correctly using the proper DID tool, did shed its spring clip a while back.
The outer plate was a mild press fit on the pins and so fortunately it stayed in place until I noticed the problem.
I therefore fitted a rivet link .. and modified my opinion of split links on o-ring chains.
Just saying.

Also, when riveting the pins, I got my calipers out and measured the "swell" on the ends of the pins so as to make sure I didn't over-rivet them.
From memory I went for a 0.010" to 0.015" swell ... I think it was actually 0.012".

[Mr Gazza]

I suppose you could argue that a 900 is probably the equal power wise of most equivalent era Jap 750's anyway so it should be ok to use on a 80bhp bike?

Yeah. There is that school of thought, and probably what the shop chappie was thinking.
Shame they don't give the chains a bhp rating, as capacity is so subjective.

Funny that the last chain I bought for a Monster was a Tsubaki Sigma-X. That was sold to me by a local shop on the basis that it had be that spec for a Monster, due to "The way it makes it's power".

Carl Harrison (local Guru) recently commented that that chain was way too heavy and looked more like a 525 spec chain... He recommended DID ZVM-X.
I have always felt that there was a lot of weight and drag in the big Tsubaki chain?

I didn't mean this to turn into a massed-debation, but I suppose it's interesting anyway.

Yes Jeff I have considered a spring link/split link and StevieL has told me several times that he uses them with no bother.
I have no real need to get the chain off in a hurry at any time, so a split link would be of no particular advantage for me.
I used to use them all the time on my many non-O-ring chains. I used to remove and clean the chain every 1000 miles and dunk it in melt grease. they would last for thousand upon thousands of miles without adjustment. But then again only had a maximum of 49bhp to cope with.
If there was a similar dunking system for O and X-ring chains I would use it with a split link in a flash.

[Darren69]

i'm kind of guessing that me and Jeff are on the same page here maybe, but with an o ring chain couldn't the side plates potentially move around in use which might flick off or eject a spring clip?

[Mr Gazza]

No. You've gone over a page... :chuckle:

[Darren69]

I'm probably in a different book altogether maybe from Jeff as is befitting? Just saying, lol. Contrary to what you said earlier I actually think that tool might be ok for DID chains hollow pins. I would ask but I don't expect to get anything useful from the seller though.

[Mr Gazza]

Worth a punt at that price anyway.

You could always grind one of the spare pins to a point if needs be.

[Darren69]

I suppose I ought to back up that last post, there's at least 2 methods the old school thinking that you should always boil your chain in grease but I was always told to always fit a soft rivet link to an o-ring chain and not a split link and just keep the o rings lubricated.

[Darren69]

Yea I think it is and I'm not allowed anything sharp anyway in here!:)

[RossObey01]

This is the tool I've used a few times about the last year with no problems.

eBay link (https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/?iid=361601173639&&&adgroupid=44594567914&rlsatarget=pla-364032685437&abcId=1088856&adtype=pla&merchantid=101729891&poi=&googleloc=9045795&device=c&campaignid=805978797&crdt=0&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover %252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww. ebay.co.uk%25252Fitm%25252Flike%25252F361601173639 %25253Fchn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D361601173639%25 26targetid%253D364032685437%2526device%253Dc%2526a dtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9045795%2526poi%25 3D%2526campaignid%253D805978797%2526adgroupid%253D 44594567914%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-364032685437%2526abcId%253D1088856%2526merchantid% 253D101729891%2526gclid%253DCjwKEAjw_uvHBRDUkumF0t LFp3cSJACAIHMYHlRtGTE5NpWcG7CnUB6fLZK1ya9cFnm_CmQX ii_cJBoCF3fw_wcB%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1204806331069&chn=ps)

[Mr Gazza]

..with an o ring chain couldn't the side plates potentially move around in use which might flick off or eject a spring clip?

https://s13.postimg.org/4b3cc96tj/spring_link.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/nsxzs73r7/)[/url][url=https://certificity.com] (https://postimage.io/app.php)

The picture seems to suggest a small shoulder on the pins, to locate the sideplate?
The clip would hold the plate against the shoulder to stop any movement.. Possibly?

The old type non-O-ring links that I used, had very slightly dished spring clips. So as well as making sure the closed end faced direction of travel, the dished side should be fitted towards the plate also. So there was a slight inward springing tension towards the plate.

It's not visible in the picture, but if the clip is dished, it would hold the sideplate onto the shoulder.

I don't feel inclined to argue for or against spring links on O/X-ring chains, but I have noticed that sellers seem to list the links as spares for repairing broken links. Not for joining new chains..?

[utopia]

Yes, that's how mine was.
The sideplate is a press fit on the shoulders.
The tool is used to assemble it and the rings are compressed slightly in the process.
Correct installation is when the sideplate hits the tiny face at the end of the shoulders.
From memory, the clip is flat .. and the sideplate needs to go the correct way round.

So its not quite the same kettle of fish as an old school, non o-ring, split link.
In my case the clip was definitely fitted the correct way round.
But it doesn't nestle in the grooves in quite the same way.
It looked absolutely fine, as if it had settled properly, but to my horror I noticed it was missing one day.
I fitted a rivet link after that.

I did actually ponder fitting a non o-ring chain though, and then reverting to a split link.
I've always got on fine with a split link before.
In the old days my bike would see rain frequently but these days the chain gets a much easier life.
I wouldn't really mind removing and cleaning/lubing it in the old way every winter.
In fact, the notion of running two such chains and alternating them didn't seem a bad idea.
The chains should be cheaper .. and have fractionally less friction too.