M600 starter solenoid connector

[sram]

Hi all

Haven't posted on here for a while as the bike has been running pretty well.
Today, I nipped in to the shops on the way home to get a few odds and sods and when I came out it wouldn't turn over. The ignition was on just fine and everything lit up as usual. Absolutely nothing from the starter or solenoid. This is the second time it's happened in the last couple of months. I lifted the tank and checked everything that I could see was connected. I then wiggled the cables feeding the solenoid and it cranked into life. I do remember seeing that the plastic connector that goes into the solenoid was not in fantastic shape when I had the carbs off. Does anyone know where I can source this plastic connector and associated contacts? I don't mind if it already comes with fly leeds attached, I can just solder them to the existing cables.

There's this one on ebay, which I think is the correct solenoid, to indicate what I'm banging on about:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/162312006658?lpid=122&chn=ps&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=pla-75952154106&adtype=pla&poi=&googleloc=9045948&device=c&campaignid=207297426&crdt=0

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21533299/pics/webshots/monster/solenoid.jpg

Thanks

S

[Chriswilly]

Could do with a new solenoid by the look of it. I have a spare if you let me have your address.
Could I also suggest that you upgrade the battery to solenoid 12v lead and also from solenoid to starter to something like 10mm standed copper - solder and crimp on new terminals and you will find the starter will turn over a lot faster.
Wire brush (dremmel) the terminals.
Try 'Towsatronics' for the plug, other than that you can make one with suitable 2mm terminals. CRIMP & SOLDER!

[Flip]

New solenoid is about £30 with discount from Moto Rapido if I remember correctly (I bought one earlier this year) and absolutely second what Chris says about the cables- you will be amazed how the poor connections and the slightly too light gauge cables slow the starter down.

[sram]

Thanks for the tips and for the offer of a new solenoid.
I think the solenoid itself is ok though, it's just the connector that goes into it. I've tried to find some 2mm terminals but have not had any luck. Thanks for the Towsatronics tip, I will get in touch with them.
Do I remember that a ukmonster member was making and selling battery & starter upgrade kits? May as well fit new cables if I'm going to be replacing the solenoid switch cable/connector.

Thanks

[Tosh]

Vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk are a great company to deal with and have a good online catalogue . Had a look and they do 2mm female round terminals in two different lengths, that also do the plug body's , but you could always just repin your existing plug.

[Darren69]

+1 for Vehicle wiring products. if its the Nottingham based company they are a good company to deal with.

[utopia]

I seem to remember that I tightened the connector terminals (female) on mine by forcing a tight fitting tube over them.
Didn't even need to bother removing the terminals from the block.
Of course, finding the right sized piece of thin walled tube is not going to be easy, but you never know what's lurking in the odds 'n sods drawer.
eg. an old radio ariel might yield something suitable ?

And .. I think I've had those very terminals from Autoelectricsupplies in the past.
But tightening the old ones might be preferable as it avoids possible dodgy re-crimping, wire shortening etc.
You could always remove the terminals from the block and nip them up a bit with pliers.
Might be wise to put something inside first to avoid over-squashing them though.

Its certainly a common problem.
I've poked mine back on at the roadside with a stick more then once.

[Dukedesmo]

Also worth checking the ignition/power relay (usually yellow) as these can and do fail, often intermittently and when they do you get no power to the solenoid (or anywhere).

As for heavy-duty power cables, Halfords sell a range of lengths off the shelf for not much money, certainly cheaper than the 'custom' cables I see at hugely inflated prices.

[sram]

quick update on this:

Bought the cables from Halfords and after much wiggling and contorting, got them fitted along with a new solenoid I found on ebay. The Halfords cables are SO much larger than the originals (~11mm vs ~6mm) and are not very flexible. Also, the ring terminals have 8mm holes and so are way too big for the posts/bolts, as the originals are 6mm.
However, saying that, the starter does turn over noticeably faster and the bike seems to start with vigour.
Now that I know this is definitely the right direction to go, I'm going to make up some cables. I've ordered some supposedly super flexible silicone cable that's rated for up to 150 amps and is 6.3mm in diameter.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1m-TURNIGY-PURE-SILICONE-WIRE-24AWG-18AWG-16AWG-14AWG-12AWG-10AWG-RC-CABLE-LEAD-/261612525023?var=&hash=item3ce95255df:m:mg_9CeXaf6GC1TbCtdxwktw
One seller lists the 8AWG silicone cable as 200 amps whereas another seller lists it as 150 amps. I'm hoping either is more than enough for the Monster's starter? Does anyone happen to know what kind of current it pulls on a cold morning?
I've also got matching 6mm hole solder lugs, so hopefully I'll be able to make up two nice cables.
The only thing stopping this all from being a perfect solution is that the one into two power distribution connector that comes off the positive side of the battery will have to be bypassed for the new starter connection. This leaves the installation lacking the neatness I'd prefer. I've managed to find the original connector supplier (http://www.mta.it/flex/TemplatesUSR/assets/pdf/MtaCatalogo_Product_Catalogue.pdf) but can't seem to find anywhere to buy the power connectors and lugs in small quantities. Ideally I need to redo the main cable coming off of the battery and that also needs a new right angled lug which I can't seem to locate.

If anyone has any suggestions for that side of things I'm all ears!

PS, I also found a seller on ebay making custom cables for very little money. Here's an example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Up-610-mm-24-BLACK-110-Amp-Car-Battery-Power-Cable-Starting-Motor-Lead-/222268447997?hash=item33c03b5cfd
I am tempted, but I'll see how I go with making my own cables first as this seller's cables are 8.3mm diameter, so again quite a bit larger.

Thanks Tosh, I now see the 2mm connector: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/product.php/994/round-pin-female-2mm

[sram]

A bit more tinkering this evening

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21533299/pics/webshots/monster/batteryconnector/IMG_1201.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21533299/pics/webshots/monster/batteryconnector/IMG_1203.jpg

The yellow lock tab is removed by simply pushing the two tabs upwards and sliding it out. The spade connector is then removed by lifting the plastic tab from the other end (where the cable enters). I then carefully pried up the metal tabs holding the old cable in place. I don't have crimps large enough to crimp the connector properly so I will clean the spade, put some flux on it and see if it will take solder, perhaps from the boss's creme brûlée blow torch :D as I'm not sure my 20 watt soldering iron will be man enough to get the heat into such a large cable.
Worth noting that on this short piece of cable there is also a heat resistant sleeve that goes over the actual cable. Presumably this is to guard it against melting against the cylinder barrel and causing a rather large mess. :fiery:

Edit: Found a supplier for a new F800 Faston terminal: http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/maxi-blade-fuse-terminal-16mm2-cable.html

Edit 2: OK, it's turning into one of those evenings. Out came the micrometer and I started counting strands.... The original cable is 80 strand with each strand being 0.40mm. The closest matching cable I could find is here http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/66/category/11 which states 80/0.40 is rated at 70 amps. The original cable has an outside diameter of 6.3mm.

[sram]

cable arrived today. Extremely flexible and heavyweight. Looks like hundreds more strands than the factory cable, but they are much finer. I'm not sure about the physics of this - There would appear to be more copper present as the strands are more tightly packed together :confused:

As I thought, my larger soldering iron was not making any progress so out came the boss's blowtorch. Worked a treat.

I just hope it can carry the current. We'll find out tomorrow....

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21533299/pics/webshots/monster/batteryconnector/IMG_1244.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21533299/pics/webshots/monster/batteryconnector/IMG_1242.jpg

I tinned the inside of the lug, the cable and then brought the two together in one hot melty action. I managed to get my cheapo crimpers around it and give it a little squeeze once the solder had set. Hopefully that's belt and braces

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21533299/pics/webshots/monster/batteryconnector/IMG_1241.jpg


Not that I really want to go outside and work on the bike in this weather :cool:

[utopia]

Electrics aint my subject, but ...
All else being equal, the current carrying capacity is dependant solely on the total cross sectional area of the conductor.
So, (bugger, there's no "pi" or "squared" key) .... pi times rad squared times number of conductors .. will give you comparative figures for old and new cables, for both area and current capacity.

But what I was really going to say was .. is that plain shrink tube or glue-lined ?
I reckon its well worth using the glue-lined stuff for a job like this as it not only improves the reliability of the mechanical joint but also seals out the weather/corrosion.
If you can still get it over the terminals that is .. but it shrinks 3x, rather than 2x for the plain stuff, so there might be hope.

Congrats on making the soldered joint on such fat cable.
Its hard to get enough heat in it without melting the insulation close to the terminal .. in my experience.

... typed while avoiding going back out to the freezing cold shed.
ah, well, here goes .......

[StevieL]

My 900ie draws 57A on startup , this is an average over three starts and was measured with a clamp meter last February while giving the old girl a pre season oil and filter change, reason for using the clamp meter in the first place was to measure the current draw of the fuel pump to confirm that all was well with the in tank fuel filter, current was 3.5A which is the same as when I acquired the bike so did not bother to go through the torturous routine of a filter change for nothing, will be doing the same again in spring.
Your 150 / 200A cables are well up to the job atb Steve.