Tyres

[Fuzzy]

I own a monster 821 4500 miles on it. Both tyres are shot. Rear is almost at the cords, front it on its markers but only on the sides in is V shaped?! I've never seen a set of tyres wear like this. Rear is square, front is V. What the hell is the cause behind it??

Next question. Ducati recommend 180/60/17 rear which is crap. Narrows it down to super sport pirellis or track tyres which are no use for commuting in the cold, wet, snow etc.
I've checked the handbook and there is no mention about recommended tyres, all it says is that if I change the tyres from oem I might have to adjust the TC accordingly. So by that I would assume changing to a 180/55/17 is not a problem??? Carlisle Ducati are refusing to fit the 180/55/17 as it's not what the bike is originally set up for.

They want to fit another set of corsas to it, which I detest. No mileage and leathal in the cold and wet. I assume that because they know they'll be shot in a couple of months so generates return business?

Has anyone made the switch from the oem 180/60/17 to a 180/55/17 and had any issues with TC or ABS

[alan s4]

I was out at the weekend on Rossa Corsa II's (zxr750), hideous tyres and awful in the cold/wet. I was also out on my Monster S4 fitted with Michelin PR4's - what a difference - makes winter riding almost fun.

I'm amazed that you can't get decent sport touring type tyres for your monster. Race rep stuff is all well and good in the summer months, at this time of year they are lethal though.

[iMOC]

Hey Fuzzy

I think the main issue here is if you change the profile your would most certainly need to update your TC, but I think the bigger issue could be with your insurance. In the unlikely event of a 'prang' and the insurance discovered that the bike doesn't have the recommended tyre on, they may use this against you (they may not, but we all know how insurance companies can be!).

I've got a M12R and have changed out the SC's for Contential Sport Attack III's. I'm using the same profiles and the tyres come with a better tread for wet weather ridding. I think they are a pretty close match in perforce to the SC's, and the good thing is they are cheaper too...:)

[slob]

Soft compound on the sides and giving it gas cranked over? that's how track tyres often wear.

Tyres are very personal, so what gives me confidence may not work for you.

For Michelin try Pilot Power 2CT if you're a dry weather/trackday rider, Pilot Road 3 or 4 if you're an all weather rider

[Flip]

Going from a 180/60x17 to a 180/55x17 means you're actually fitting a smaller tyre so to keep the aspect ratio and therefore the overall diameter (almost) the same you need to go up in width a little (assuming you don't have any clearance issues) and use a 190/55x17.
Plenty of touring all year round options there but worth looking at Michelin'a Pilot Road variants for excellent wet grip and wear characteristics.

[utopia]

Blimey .. Traction control (I assume that's what TC means) needing to be adjusted to suit a change in tyres !!
I'm glad I don't have any of that then.
My 750 runs a rear wheel that's 1 inch wider than std and both tyres are non std profiles.

I run PR3s, btw.
Double compound rear helps massively in retaining the profile.

[Fuzzy]

Bit the bullet went for the 180/55/17. There is no recommendation in the hand book on tyres just babble about making sure pressures are fine and resetting the TC settings if you change from the oem tyres but nothing telling me that I have to have a 180/60/17. Spoke to me the dealership network I bought the bike from
And they said there shouldn't be any issues and have that in writing too so should there be issues I can hold them liable.

I'm not sure if I'm going to run into clearance issues BUT the difference between the 60 and 55 was worked out at 2.8mm (same as a half worn tyre) so if that difference is going to be an issue with the traction and ABS then let's be fair there is a much bigger issue that Ducati ought to be addressing in that their "industry leading 8 level TC" has a major flaw.

I'll see how it goes, should have them fitted by Wednesday... I'll be riding gingerly for a while first as it's hammering it down here with rain.. new tyres + soaking roads = need for clean underwear.

It's good that you've found other tyres a suitable replacement on the 1200r but I ride 365 days a year regardless of the weather or temperature. I'm not hammering it and throttling on through the corners... at least I don't think I am lol. Possibly the fact that on the entire journey to and from work there are 2 straights but surely even then I should see more than 4500 from a front tyre?!

I shut off and roll into the corner, hold the rpm steady through the corner and throttle on as I'm leaving the corner while coming back up right and have an inch thick chicken strips on the rear lol... possibly too much counter steering or sliding across the surface without noticing it???

[slob]

What make did you go for?
RCII are fairly similar to Pilot Power in terms of grip (on a dry track), so I'd have guessed 4.5K from the front and half that from the rear would be about right with spirited riding. You do have a bit over 100bhp on tap after all. Pilot Road should last quite a bit longer.
If you were sliding the rear much you should've been seeing the TC light flashing.
1200r runs Supercorsas as OEM, awesome in the dry, pretty scary when it's wet.

[Mr Gazza]

Changing to a 190/55 would get the diameter closer to a 180/60 than a 180/55 but it would still be "flatter" and in fact even further from the aspect ratio of a 180/60.

I know nothing of traction control or how it works. But I do know that the speedo and odometer will read differently with a 180/55 as the circumference has reduced by about 28mm according to my precision guesswork.
Further guesswork tells me that you will be about 17 meters short every kilometre, for the same wheel revolutions. Or putting it another way, when your trip says you have done 100kilometres, you will still have another 1.7 kilometres to go. (Sorry I didn't have the strength to work it out in miles, but it's a guestimate anyway to give you a ball park)

I've done some exhaustive reading the last few days, as I'm replacing my tyres also.
I have worn out a pair of Pirelli Diablo Stradas, which are very under rated "Sports Touring" tyres. Great in the wet and dry and durable too.
Pirelli have replaced the Strada with the Angel ST and superseded that with the Angel GT. Both are all weather "Sports Touring" tyres and compare directly with the Michelin PR3 and PR4 respectively, in terms of performance and mileage.
If anything the GT is a greater improvement over the ST than the PR4 is over the PR3.

Well I really like Pirellis so I've plumped for a pair of Angel ST at a bargain price.... Pirellis are cheaper than Michelins.

If anyone is looking for some really cheap tyres without sacrificing anything to performance or mileage. try some Diablo Stradas at £114 a pair +fitting and balancing... That's for brand new tyres, not old stock... :mand: :thumbsup:

[Fuzzy]

Paying £235 for a pair of Michelin Pilot road 4 fitted to the bike. Not too bad I don't think. I think you made a mistake in your calculations... 180/55/17 has a 2.8mm radius reduction over a 180/60/17 according to Michelin??? Which would work out at 17.59 not 28mm

In any case I don't get why they would set what is effectively a sport/cruiser up to run on more track orientated tyres designed to give a greater lean angle than the monster is technically able to achieve other than a hand shake with Pirelli to try and force people to buy Pirelli.

I'll get them fitted as I said worst case scenario is my speedo is a little out and the TC gets turned down a notch though to be honest I've not ever really activated it. Once unloading the rear over the top of a bridge and once on snow.

Also correct me if I'm wrong here but isn't the monsters speedo run off of a crank speed sensor as aposed to a wheel speed sensor???

[slob]

Older injected bikes use a sensor on the rear caliper bracket, not sure about yours but the nature of TC means you have wheel speed sensors both ends anyway, which would seem an easier solution than calculating from crank speed and gear but having done a little electrical troubleshooting on an 821 nothing would surprise me.

[Mr Gazza]

. I think you made a mistake in your calculations...

Who said anything about calculations... :chuckle:

Without putting any numbers to it, the only difference will be a slight reduction in circumference and will be barely noticeable on the speedo, although the difference on the odo will add up over the years.
It doesn't matter where the speed is read on the bike as the wheel is travelling less far each revolution, everything is still spinning at the same relative rpm.

Pleased you have got some better tyres for your usage now. It's not the first time Ducati have chosen an odd tyre spec. A lot of the M series Monsters should have a 170 rear which is very hard to find now. Most folk use a 180.

[RossObey01]

If anyone is looking for some really cheap tyres without sacrificing anything to performance or mileage. try some Diablo Stradas at £114 a pair +fitting and balancing... That's for brand new tyres, not old stock... :mand: :thumbsup:

Where were these from Gazza? I'm looking to get a new set on before the spring.

[Flip]

Changing to a 190/55 would get the diameter closer to a 180/60 than a 180/55 but it would still be "flatter" and in fact even further from the aspect ratio of a 180/60.

That's not quite true if you do the maths:

1.Multiply a tyre’s width by the aspect ratio to get aspect height (180 x 0.55 = 99mm)
(180 x 0.60 = 108mm)
(190 x 0.55 = 104.5mm)
2.Convert into inches (99 / 25.4 = 3.9)
(108 / 25.4 = 4.2)
(104.5 / 25.4 = 4.11)

3.Double the aspect height (3.9 x 2 = 7.8)
(4.2 x 2 = 8.4)
(4.11 x 2 = 8.22)

4.Add inside diameter of tyre (7.8 + 17 = 24'')
(8.4 + 17 = 25.4'')
(8.22 + 17 = 25.22'')

So the standing height of the 180/60x17 is 25.4'' (645mm) and the 190/55x17 is 25.22'' (640mm) whereas going to the undersize 180/55x17 brings it down to 24'' (609mm) which will actually give the 'flatter' profile.


In any case I don't get why they would set what is effectively a sport/cruiser up to run on more track orientated tyres designed to give a greater lean angle than the monster is technically able to achieve other than a hand shake with Pirelli to try and force people to buy Pirelli.

I'll get them fitted as I said worst case scenario is my speedo is a little out and the TC gets turned down a notch

The reason they have fitted Rossa Corsa's is probably along the lines of; they have a deal with Pirelli, they are the latest 'thing' so will make every rider like a god on a motorcycle, they don't think many riders will ride all year round plus the 821 (along with the 1200) is aimed at people who are a bit fed up with race reps but still want performance of one.

In reality most people would go just as well on modern sport touring type tyres as in less than clement weather they warm up quicker (well cool less quickly is probably more accurate) while giving better performance and safety in wet and slippery conditions - BUT they're no so cool to have on a bike.

However, personally I think you're worse case scenario is a little different to a recalculation of the speedo, mileage and traction control. The lower rolling radius will effectively lower the rear of the bike (exaggerated by maximum height of a new front) meaning you are likely to experience slower steering and possibly some understeer as well (felt by it wanting to run wide in slow-ish corners).

But do please keep us posted on what it feels like to you- tyres are a very personal thing as others have already said.


It's not the first time Ducati have chosen an odd tyre spec. A lot of the M series Monsters should have a 170 rear which is very hard to find now. Most folk use a 180.

I think that was mostly down to the trends at the time, a bit like late eighties, early nineties bikes using a 16'' front wheel and then when radials were in their infancy many bikes like my old '89 FZR600 using a 130 section rear with Yamaha giving an approved 'oversize' fitment of a 150 section which being a spotty yoof at the time I tried and it completely fooked up the sweet handling of the 130 (it look much cooler though :woot:).

I've got my 900 handling just how I like it on a 170 so am loathed to fit a 180 until forced to- I have ridden a 900 with one fitted and didn't like it but that could just have been down to everything else on that particular bike but my mate that rode mine said he preferred it to his.

[Mr Gazza]

Where were these from Gazza? I'm looking to get a new set on before the spring.

Thanks for the PM Ross and sorry I missed your post.

Pirelli Diablo Strada Pair; 120/70 and 185/55 from roundandblack on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291949522468?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

These are new tyres less than 2 months old... I messaged the seller to find the date stamp, as my local Tyre retailer told me that the cheap tyres on ebay are all out of date.
roundandblack told me they have to describe them as old stock because they are not allowed to sell them this cheap.

I bought a pair of Pirelli Angel ST (same sizes) for £149.99 from here; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141856797372?euid=bad42bde1423454abbed58562fa36257&bu=44281975959&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu
They arrived yesterday precisely 24 hours after ordering them and true to the sellers word bore the date stamps 3715 and 3615.... That is week 37 0f 2015 and week 36 of 2015. making them 14 months old.
You shouldn't really use tyres after their 5th birthday, so as I will have these ones worn out in 2 or 3 years, they will be fine.

If you find marked down tyres on Ebay (or anywhere) always ask for the date stamp. First 2 digits are the week number and 2nd two are the year, as above.

[Fuzzy]

So an update to the thread. Don't need to change the tyres now until some time next year.. last nights fault forced my hand into buying a second bike and putting the Ducati into the garage until next season. Get it brought up to scratch for the new season once the salt is off th road