My Monster 600 Project

[Stephenniall]

I bought my monster a couple of months ago, it is quite tidy really and appeared to have been looked after for a 21 year old bike. However there were some bits that had started to bug me.

The Ducati decal on the tank was ripped slightly, and the tank had a lot of sanding scratches and solvent pop from a poor previous paintjob in it.

When the bike decided it didn't want to run anymore (blocked carbs i think), I decided to paint the tank and give it a bit of a clean up.

http://imgur.com/k0XclI3l.jpg

I took the carbs off and give them a clean, I reassembled the lot and it fired up lovely (after cranking for a while to fill the carbs), but the drain screws in the bottom of the float bowls leaked quite badly so I set off to find a set.

I rung Ducati Manchester who told me I'd need to buy a whole float bowl assembly, after a quick google I found the carbs are the same as a Yamaha TDM 850, so rung my local Yam dealer and they ordered these in for me.

http://i.imgur.com/8gWFp4gl.jpg

I took the tank to my unit (which needs a serious clear out :chuckle:) to start prepping it for paint, I was originally going to sand the paint back with 240-320 grit paper, to remove all the scratches and solvent pop, then 2k prime it and flat it back. However when I started to sand back I found layer upon layer of paint.

I decided to paint strip it back to bare metal.

http://imgur.com/cFKafIwl.jpg

Unfortunately whilst doing so I discovered quite a bit of bodyfiller.

http://imgur.com/AR6dY1ol.jpg

I wasn't happy with how thick the filler was, there was only two real dents in the tank, but instead of having them dent pulled the previous owner had just filled it with bog.

I ground the bodyfiller out and took the tank into work with me to use the dentpuller and got around 90% of the dent out using that. I then gave it a light skim of filler to smooth out any remaining ripples.

I 2K primed the tank, and guidecoated it ready for flatting.

http://imgur.com/58pag6Bl.jpg

The inside of the tank had been brushed painted black. Ideally I wanted to have it shot blasted back to bare metal and paint it properly, but I didn't have the time or the funds to do so. I ground back any visible surface rust, prepped the surface with 180 grit followed by 240 grit paper, gave it a single coat of wet-on-wet 2k primer followed by some red basecoat.

http://imgur.com/qQOhsHJl.jpg

I allowed it time to dry, then flipped the tank back over and started to flat the outside. If the primer had laid nice and flat I would've wet flatted with 800 grit then painted straight over that, however I was having issues with my compressor struggling to run my spraygun, so the primer was a bit naff. I flatted it with a block using some 320 grit paper. Then re guidecoated it and went over with a 500 grit disc on a DA sander. If the tank was being painted with a metallic paint I would've liked to go a higher grit, but with a solid colour you can get away with coarser paper.

http://imgur.com/x4ePm8ul.jpg

Once it was flatted, I put it on my painting stand, degreased it with some panel wipe, tacked it off and applied a little bit of etch primer onto any areas where I had flatted it back to bare metal.

http://imgur.com/8jwCT5il.jpg

I allowed the etch to dry, and followed by tacking it off again.

I then applied my basecoat, followed by two coats of clearcoat.

http://imgur.com/GPLkbuXl.jpg

I will allow this to cure before flatting it down, applying the decals and applying another two coats of clear.

[slob]

looking good

[Nottsbiker]

Looks good mate - when do I send mine over? :)

[Albie]

Great job. When can you do my early tank.

[Yorkie]

Very nice work, as above it you want another one to play with just call.

I'll be watching this build.

Yorkie

[Dirty]

Nice work, I'll get in the queue behind Notts and York :)

[Nottsbiker]

I've got an entire body kit including carbon that needs doing ;)

[Stephenniall]

Thanks for the comments :)

I'd quite happily take on a few tanks to paint to keep me busy :biggrin: If anyone's close to Bolton give me a shout.

I tried to get the bike up and running again today, however even with the new drain screws it seems to leak from the carbs. Guess its time to pull them off again and inspect. Hopefully I'll figure it out, otherwise I'll have to give in and take it to the local Ducati specialist :confused: .

[RossObey01]

I've got a tank, cowl and mudguard that can keep you busy!

Okay so overflowing carbs, I had a little saga in this not too long ago where by carbs were leaking through the drain tubes, even with the engine off (and in theory, the fuel cut-off closed).

If you're sure the leak is from there rather than the gaskets then the first thing to check is that your flat bowls aren't cracked where the drain screw goes in. If it is, obviously, even with the screw nipped up it will still leak.

If that's all fine, you need to start looking inside the carbs. The drain hole also double up as a leak off for when the carbs are overflowing, regardless of drain screw position. This was my problem.

So assuming the carbs are overflowing, the main causes are either wrong float height which is very easily measured but also unlikely to have changed if the bike's been running fine previously. Whilst you're doing that check for damaged floats, if they have any fuel in the floats, obviously they ain't gonna float! You mentioned you cleaned the carbs, I also did this, but in the process managed to push some grit into the seat above the float valve, this meant even with the floats fully up there was still fuel able to squeeze through the valve and cause the carbs to overflow.

When you stripped them down, how far did you go? When I whipped the carbs apart on mine, I also removed the float seat/workings with a small o-ring where it goes into the carb body. This was also shredded, so even when I had cleaned the valve seat and put it all back together, to much annoyance, they still leaked. So make sure those o-rings are in good nick too.

If none of that works, I have no idea!

[Mr Gazza]

You've done a smashing job on that Stephen...:thumbsup:

A couple of questions.. When you say guidecoat, do you mean a coat of colour of some sort over the primer to see where you are rubbing? Or is this a product name?.. You seem to have misted some black over it.

Regarding your air supply problems, I'm curious as to your tank size and the cfm of your compressor. The reason I ask is that I bought a nice compressor and tank earlier this year in the hope that it would be enough to do my tank...Just wondered if I need an auxiliary tank, as I can lay my hands on one fairly easily.

I was going to add a stripe and the decals straight onto the base coat and then lacquer the whole shooting match in one go. You say that you will flat the lacquer, then add the decals and more lacquer... Is that standard practise? Or have I got it wrong?

Anyway I'll be well pleased if mine comes out as nice as yours... Well done...:biggrin:

[Stephenniall]

I'll have to take the carbs back off and have a look at them more thoroughly. Thanks for the advice.

You can buy proper dry guide coat, but a cheap can on matt black aerosol dusted over your primer is easier and cheaper, it allows you to see where you've flatted, and also shows you if there are any low spots left in the tank.

My compressor is a 50Litre 18CFM clarke one, attached to a 150L auxiliary tank. The more air the better. The only reason I had issues with my primer gun is the air hose I had was too small diameter (you want at least 10mm ideally) plus it was a Satajet 100B which uses about 16 CFM anyway. I prefer my Sata guns, but use my devilbiss guns at home as they are easier on the compressor.

You can put your decals over the basecoat provided it has had enough time to dry properly, however even if I was doing it that way I would still block the paintwork and re-lacquer as you will get a better shine and there will be more clearcoat on the tank to flat and Polish back to. I prefer to add the decals after lacquering it first incase anything goes wrong in the lacquer stage, as if it does you'll end up having to sand right back and replace the expensive decals.

The paint is all in the prep work, get your repairs done nicely and primer flatted correctly and it should come out look great.

[Mr Gazza]

Thanks for all the info Stephen.
I have a 50ltr tank but only 9.5cfm, so I think I will put the auxiliary on. I might even investigate a low volume gun, mine are all a bit air hungry.
Thanks for sharing your thinking on lacquer too. Of course it makes sense to mask the stripe over lacquer too, in case of making a mess of it and having to go back a stage, that's going to be much easier over lacquer as opposed to base coat.
Come to think of it I don't have decals, but rather, reverse cut decals to be used as a mask or stencil, as it were. So the over lacquer technique could be a handy get out of jail free card.
Every days a school day as they say...Thanks again...:biggrin:

[Stephenniall]

9.5 cfm will struggle with most full size guns. It wouldn't run any of the guns I use but might run some of the smaller Clarke guns or cheaper brands, I'd avoid any like that and buy one of these: https://www.spraygunsdirect.co.uk/a-n-i-gf3-mini-spot-repair-spraygun.html

I've got no affiliation with sprayguns direct, however I bought one of them guns two weeks ago for little blow-ins and painting like bits like fuel filler covers at work and have been really surprised with it, it sprays excellently, it does feel a bit cheap, but they do another gun which is similar but has a better finish and is supposed to spray even better, it is £50 extra though.

If you're using 2k products make sure you buy a top quality respirator, (I use a 3M 06782, and know many professionals who use them daily) I use an air fed mask when I'm spraying in a proper spray booth but if you don't have that privilege a cartridge respirator will suffice.

Also make sure you have decent water traps on your compressor, and you drain all the water out of the tanks before spraying, any water in the airline will cause micro-blistering underneath your paint, and the only real way to fix that is to bare metal the paint.

[Mr Gazza]

9.5 cfm will struggle with most full size guns.

Ah well! At least I might struggle a bit less than I have done with my home made set up over the years. It uses a lorry air brake tank and a very small compressor...I don't know what cfm but I have to wait for it to catch up.
I did several bike tanks with that and also the entire bodywork of a heavyweight Ajay as well as various fairings and stuff.
My first spraygun is a Bodyline and seems to be a Devibliss copy or badge engineered version...It's always served me well.
One of those touch up guns might be just the thing for the stripes and badges. I bought a nasty one from China for about 99p to use on model planes, but I think it's rubbish really.
I also have a really cheap gravity gun which does a nice enough job, but uses an awful lot of air.
Those LVLP guns are a pretty penny so I will just be waiting for air, hopefully not so long as before...:rolleyes:

[Stephenniall]

The majority of cheap sprayguns now are copies of devilbiss, or Satas. I use a little airbrush for stripes/logos etc, that gun I linked to in the post above has such a good fan on it I'll be using that on my next tank.

When I get off holiday I'll upload a picture of my compressor setup, I've got a homemade thing like yours I bought from eBay.

LVLP guns are great but not necessarily needed, anything with a conventional aircap that isn't HVLP will use less air.

[Stephenniall]

Sat round the pool on holiday, and these popped up on eBay brand new. I quickly clicked buy it now.

http://i.imgur.com/RpOzaQFl.jpg

Hopefully these should fix any issues with my carbs.

[RossObey01]

Good find!

[Dennis menace]

You might want to check the jets, needle and needle position. I bought new carbs from Italy off Ebay supposedly for my M600 but the jets and needles were wrong. Cost me £60 for the right ones. The guys at Allens Performance supplied mine.

http://www.allensperformance.co.uk/index.html

[Stephenniall]

Old Vs New.

I haven't had the chance to try and get it running yet, I've put the battery on charge all night, and will try tomorow. I replaced all the fuel hoses while I had the tank off.

http://i.imgur.com/WDcJhBjl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UfTYDb4l.jpg

[Stephenniall]

I had a bit of spare time today so decided to clean up the carbon sidecovers.

I took them off, and flatted back the lacquer using 800 grit wet 'n' dry, there was a few pints dents (from jeans or leathers I'd imagine) so I went over the panel with a grey scotchbrite and decided to try and fill them with clearcoat.

http://i.imgur.com/Ueli2F2l.jpg


I mixed up some clearcoat and applied a grip coat, followed by three wet coats. Normally I would only apply two coats, but I was trying to fill the dents so applied a final coat, giving me something nice to flat back and Polish to.

http://i.imgur.com/xPxcl8Bl.jpg

I'll give it a day or so to cure, then will flat back with 1500 paper, followed by by 3000 and 6000 3m trizact discs and Polish up. This is a nice and easy way to spruce up cheaper carbon bits to give the appearance of high quality.

[Darren69]

So can older carbon bits be given this treatment? I've an old carbon headlight cowl that appears to have very little clear coat left on it and is very dull but otherwise appears to be ok.

[Stephenniall]

So can older carbon bits be given this treatment? I've an old carbon headlight cowl that appears to have very little clear coat left on it and is very dull but otherwise appears to be ok.

Yeah this can be done with any carbon, you will need to level the remaining clearcoat, if it's peeling or theres any damage you will need to sand that out. I sanded mine with 800 as there was little damage, without seeing the cowl I couldn't say how to prep it properly. You could you coarser, but make sure to finish it with a high grit such as 800 or 1000 grit to ensure you don't see any scratches through your clearcoat.

[Stephenniall]

Apologies for the large images. Imgur won't let me resize them, and I'm uploading on my phone, I will resize them tomorrowith.


With the carbs off the bike once again to send them back (seller sent me a set of 900 carbs by mistake). I decided now would be a good time to remove some dodgy wiring, do some more paintwork and repair a few bits.

The surround for the ignition has had a hole drilled in it by the previous owner, for what Im guessing is for an LED for an alarm system. It's been driving me crazy ever since I got the bike so it has to be sorted.
http://i.imgur.com/nyySXJwh.jpg

I sanded the surround down with some 320 grit paper on a block, this is purely to aid adhesion to any filler I use in the later repair stages.

http://i.imgur.com/tI4rZYsh.jpg
I then applied a coat of plastic adhesion promoter to the inside, to help any bond I use to adhere better.

I used a plastic welding rod to weld the hole up, and reinforced it inside with a small amount of 2k bond (this step probably wasn't 100% necessary, however it will make the repair stronger so won't do any harm).
http://i.imgur.com/iEvURlTh.jpg


Once cured, I sanded the top of the surround again, to level the piece of plastic I'd welded in. It levelled nicely, but left a small low spot, I probably could've welded some more plastic in, and got it spot on without any filler, however I opted for the easier method, and will apply a small amount of plastic filler to the top. I'll then block the filler and apply a coat of plastic adhesion promoter, followed by some primer. I'll then sand the primer and apply a texture coat to replicate the factory finish.

http://i.imgur.com/pOjAsKnh.jpg

I'll try and upload the filler and priming stages tomorrow when I do them.

I'll be using the same method to repair the cowl that sits under the rear seat, as it has had holes drilled in it to fit red Leds.

[Zimbo]

Really interesting thread, thanks for sharing the processes and all the detail as you progress, it's a good read!

[Stephenniall]

I managed to get my ignition cover finished this weekend.

http://i.imgur.com/2ru4AUtl.jpg

I also gave my tail piece a quick clean up. I had some paint issues with it, where there was some oil/silicon contamination on the panel and it reacted with the clearcoat. I'll have to flat it down and re-lacquer it to fill the small silicon pinholes. It's a pain, but these things happen occasionally.

http://i.imgur.com/11Fj6cwl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wpdP4DEl.jpg

[Darkness]

I seem to recall that the indicator units on those tail units are front wing side repeaters from the Ford Escort or Mondeo, so replacements should still be readily available new if yours are looking a bit tired?

[Darren69]

I seem to recall that the indicator units on those tail units are front wing side repeaters from the Ford Escort or Mondeo, so replacements should still be readily available new if yours are looking a bit tired?

Of they could be Fiat parts?

[Darkness]

Of they could be Fiat parts?

They could be, though the contemporary Punto ones look a bit longer and skinnier to me?

What's the chance of finding a '94 Punto with original front wings to compare?

You can still get new ones if you want: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-MONSTER-NEW-DP-CARBON-FIBER-REAR-FENDER-BLINKERS-TAIL-PIECE-750-900-/371756413508?hash=item568e68b244:g:nbEAAOSw-vlVl10K

[Dukedesmo]

I seem to recall that the indicator units on those tail units are front wing side repeaters from the Ford Escort or Mondeo, so replacements should still be readily available new if yours are looking a bit tired?

Maybe compatible? but the Ducati lights are LED bulb and have built in ballast resistors. I'm not aware that any cars of that age would have used LED bulbs.

[Darkness]

Maybe compatible? but the Ducati lights are LED bulb and have built in ballast resistors. I'm not aware that any cars of that age would have used LED bulbs.

Why do you think it has LEDs?

The original bulbs on the m600 weren't LED:
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/images/product_images/popup_images/800036726.jpg

And I don't think many performance parts were using LEDs twenty odd years ago either.

If it's got LEDs in now, it's either a more recent version of the 90's Ducati Performance tea tray, or it's already had the indicators changed on it?

[Dukedesmo]

Why do you think it has LEDs?



Because I have one of those very mudguard/light thingys on my bike and it has LED bulbs that are sealed into the 'repeaters'.

I know this because one of them packed up due to the ultra thin wire into it snapping off right at the base of the sealed holder where it connected to the load resistor and I had to cut it all apart and then reseal it afterwards.

Mine was only bought 3-4 years ago as a new (old stock?) part although I have no idea how old it actually is, it is always possible that there were several versions though?

On mine it is definitely not possible to replace the bulb without doing some 'surgery'.

[Stephenniall]

One of the receipts that come with the bikes documents was for side repeaters for a Honda Accord, they were nice LED ones, but were tinted and absolutely bloody useless. I replaced them with bulbs but will be going back with LED eventually I think.

[Darkness]

All becomes clearer.

[Darren69]

If you fit Japanese parts to your Ducati, there's a very high likelyhood that they will fail! There's an alarming pattern emerging here that I've observed.

E.g. Shindengen reg/recs, Nippon Denso HT coil sticks and Yuasa batteries. All Jap crap and your bike will not be happy and they will break. Don't do it people! :)

[Stephenniall]

If you fit Japanese parts to your Ducati, there's a very high likelyhood that they will fail! There's an alarming pattern emerging here that I've observed.

E.g. Shindengen reg/recs, Nippon Denso HT coil sticks and Yuasa batteries. All Jap crap and your bike will not be happy and they will break. Don't do it people! :)


The only issue I've had with mine so far is the carbs ... which just happen to be Japanese. :chuckle:

[Stephenniall]

Well what was originally going to be a quick tidy up has moved onto something much bigger.

I noticed a cracked weld on the steering stop of my Monster, and was having a look at what it'd cost me to have it welded, then strip & paint the frame. As it's a matt finish it isn't easy to do a small spot repair (especially with the paint being over 20 years old and in poor condition).

After getting some quotes, I was on eBay late one night and found a full frame for sale, with a nice Private reg that came with the frame, I quickly got it bought, It was delivered thursday and I've dropped it off at my shot blasters to be blasted.

After browsing through some threads on here, I was going to get my frame powder coated, I've had frames in the past done and have been really happy with the finish and colour, however I know how hard it is to get the original bronze/gold colour matched for powder, so I opted to paint the frame myself.

Once the frame gets back from the blasters, I'm going to have one of the panel beaters at work reinforce some of the original factory welds (mainly around where the steering stop is that cracked on my original frame) with some Mig Braze. I'll then get it sanded down and into primer.

I've dropped off a sample of the frame colour to be matched at a local supplier, and once I get that back I'll do some spray out cards to check the colour, and the gloss level of the clearcoat. It can be difficult to match the OEM level of gloss in the clear, So i'll have a few spray out cards with different mixtures of matt/satin clearcoat to try and get as close to the original gloss levels.

[Stephenniall]

While I'm waiting for the frame back from the blasters, I decided to repair the front mudguard.

http://i.imgur.com/JOUI9WLl.jpg

It had some scratches in from the oil cooler sitting on it, I sanded the scratches out with 320 grit paper on an orbital sander, and followed it up with 500 grit. I grey scotched the rest of the mudguard. I then panel wiped/tacked it off and applied two coats of primer.

http://imgur.com/111Ay4al.jpg

I guidecoated the primer and knocked it down using a superfine sponge pad.

http://imgur.com/XTFr5eel.jpg

The colour looks too orange due to the poor lighting, however the colour is spot on.


I seem to be doing more and more paintwork at my unit, and would like to start doing more stuff for other people, so am going to spend the next week or so gutting my unit, cleaning it out and installing a small spray room/booth. I'm going to paint the place and upgrade all the lighting so I can paint a lot easier, and with better results.

[Stephenniall]

Well I haven't been active on the forum in a while, mainly due to work and other things happening that's made me lose interest in the Ducati.

I had the new frame I purchased for the Ducati blasted with fine grit, and set about prepping it for primer.

I asked my blaster to finish the frame in the finest grit he had, and to not prime it himself.

I used 180 grit on my 3" DA sander where I could, to refine the finish left by blasting, I used 180 by hand in places where I couldn't get the sander in.

I then applied a coat of etch primer, followed by 3 coats of a Wet-on-wet primer (This primer is designed to provide a perfect surface to go straight over with basecoat, and is mainly used in one process, where you would prime, allow to flash off for 15-20 minutes and then paint straight over. However I used the wet on wet primer rather than a high build purely because I didn't want to have to flat the surface, having wet-on-wet it, it only needed keying with a superfine sponge sanding pad prior to basecoat.

http://imgur.com/rvwUbLbl.jpg

I left that to cure, then gave it a quick keying up and applied my basecoat & lacquer.

http://imgur.com/rq6CeCBl.jpg

A rather poor picture, but it shows the end result. I'm still torn whether to leave it gloss, or whether to give it a coat of matt/satin lacquer, to make it more original.

Meanwhile I've dropped the engine out of the old frame, and will start prepping it for paint tomorrow.

[SteveG]

Very good thread Stephen... the big question, it's clear you are a paint-pro...with talents.. did you get the exact colour match to the original frame you were after?

[Albie]

Very good thread Stephen... the big question, it's clear you are a paint-pro...with talents.. did you get the exact colour match to the original frame you were after?

I got mine matched today one leg is painted over with new paint so guess if you want but I am sure its obvious as chip on other side

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l209/albies4/IMG_1324_zps9ov2xgeq.jpg (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/albies4/media/IMG_1324_zps9ov2xgeq.jpg.html)

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l209/albies4/IMG_1322_zpsnmjmlmsm.jpg (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/albies4/media/IMG_1322_zpsnmjmlmsm.jpg.html)

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l209/albies4/IMG_1323_zpscvdhabdi.jpg (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/albies4/media/IMG_1323_zpscvdhabdi.jpg.html)

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l209/albies4/IMG_1321_zpsx4wmmq7a.jpg (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/albies4/media/IMG_1321_zpsx4wmmq7a.jpg.html)

[Stephenniall]

Very good thread Stephen... the big question, it's clear you are a paint-pro...with talents.. did you get the exact colour match to the original frame you were after?

Thanks for the kind words.

I did get the colour matched locally, but wasn't 100% happy with the match. I did send a sample to Albie below, I don't think he got it though ?.

His colour match looks better than mine, so if you need the paint I'd ring his supplier and order through them.

Anyway update on the Monster...

I've got the swingarm sanded down, and in wet-on-wet primer. It had been powder coated rather poorly, and there was some corrosion coming through, I also wasn't quite happy with the colour as it was more of a industrial grey than a nice silver. I'm still not 100% happy with the colour of the swingarm and may end up repainting it in the future, but it does look better.

I've had the tires removed from the wheels in preparation for their refurb, I was originally just going to key them and wet-on-wet them, however lots of corrosion is coming through from a poor powder coat job, so I've decided to bare metal them with some paint stripper. I would've prefered to have them shot blasted, but paint stripping them saves me £40.