Won't Start - New Battery?

[TonyG]

Hi,

Took today off to take my 1100s up to Baines Racing for a major service and it wouldn't start. At first it was stuck in a cycle of displaying an 0005 error and then going into the start up sequence, then back to the error. If I pressed the starter, nothing, not even a click. I've never had this before and regularly put it on an optimate. Anyway, put it on the optimate and when it was charged tried again. This time it didn't display an error, but now just clicked on the starter button. Do I just get a new battery, £74 from OnYerBike, or could it be a relay? I have no electrical know how at all. Desperate to get it started so I can get it up to Baines.

I tried checking the battery connections, all fine. Also, can you get the battery out by lifting the tank, or do you have to remove the tank altogether?

Thanks in advance.

Tony

[jonzi]

You can get the battery out just by lifting the tank.

To take the whole tank off is a right pain in the ass. You will have to undo the hose protectors and take the hoses off, and they are tricky.

Just prop the tank up.

My bike has been a bit of a pain to start recently, thats with a new battery at the end of last year and being on an optimate.

Could possibly be the cold? Try starting it whilst it's plugged in to the optimate, not sure it will defo help, but I have done it in the past when having starting problems and it seemed to do the trick for me.

[RossObey01]

Have you got a multimeter to give it a quick check?

[TonyG]

I haven't got a multimeter.

I need to sort something out tomorrow if I'm going to get it to Baines. I'm working all sorts of odd hours at the moment and this will be the only chance I have. I think I will have to risk buying the battery in the hope that is the problem. Probably due one soon in any case as it is a 2009 model and has no mention of ever having a replacement battery in the paperwork.

Cheers

[RossObey01]

I had a quick Google of the 0005 faul code and everyone (pretty much) with the same problem said it was battery related. If it's the original battery then I should imagine it's getting pretty tired!

[Darren69]

90% sure it will be the battery. 3 years is probably as long as you can reasonably expect from one tbh, and that's not bad considering how much hammer they get. Motobatt is a good replacement.

[BLUNT]

3 years is probably as long as you can reasonably expect from one tbh
Absolute nonsense!

[Darren69]

Absolute nonsense!

Of course you can completely disregard my comments if you want. I've only owned Ducatis for 25 years! so what do I know?

3 years seems reasonable, some are getting less than that! Others a bit more it depends on a lot of things. If my bike didn't start and the battery was >3 years I would certainly consider that to be most likely cause. From my experience S4's seem particularly hard on their batteries, so maybe some of the other models are too.

There's a few others on one of the other forums that have said the same.

http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/131966-battery-life.html

[Scott1]

I've just had to change my M900 battery after two years! Put a Motobatt in and its been an amazing transformation with cold starting.

Those new Fangled Monsters are a pain to change the battery but sounds like the culprit.

[Darren69]

But yes Tony battery aside, as you mention the other likely culprit is the starter solenoid. I don't have any experience with the later models. I don't know if it is linked to the canbus on those models, if it is that might explain the error code you're seeing. I'd be surprised if it is that on such a newish bike, but again like the battery they do get a hard life. Both of my current Ducati are on the original starter solenoids '97 748 and '02 S4 but they can and will fail.

If its accessible without dismantling much of the bike you could short it out and see if the starter kicks in. I would check with the dealer first before you attempt this though as I don't know if it will cause any damage to the bikes electronics on the newer bikes. Its fine on either of mine.

[TonyG]

Thanks for all the replies.

I left it on the optimate all night and this morning it just about cranked over twice, then got the error code again. I think that indicates it is the battery, if it was a relay or something I presume I would still just get the click.

I'm getting a battery this afternoon, already stripped down the tank etc., so I can lift it up and get to the battery, but it's a bloody pain to try and prop it up with enough room to do the work, not sure if it is easier to prop the front or the rear. Doesn't help that the poxy thing is full of petrol!

[Mr Gazza]

Of course you can completely disregard my comments if you want. I've only owned Ducatis for 25 years! so what do I know?

That would also reflect my experience with motorcycle batteries over the last forty odd years.

I was quite accustomed to changing batteries on a annual basis. Of course lead/acid ones have come on a little over the years, but the answer is a Motobatt...Going into the third year on mine, still starting brightly and still never been on a charger.

[TonyG]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. Got a new Yuasa today, fitted it, and it started as soon as I touched the button.

Cheers

[jonzi]

Absolute nonsense!

Every single post you have made has been argumentive but brought nothing to counter the claims.

If you have nothing to add to the forum I suggest you **** off.

[damien666]

Don't rise to it...........prob gives him a hard on!

Just ban him moderators

[NewMon]

I'm glad it all got sorted in the end.

I've had issues with car and bike bats in the past - the thing called a 'battery' is a collection of 'cells' and individual cells can fail while the battery continues... This means that batteries can hold a good charge, showing the right voltage and delivering decent current but then suddenly fall off that current cliff when any abnormal demand is put on them. Cold starting or starting after a long period of inactivity tends to show up the problem. High capacity or high compression engines exacerbate this problem. My monster battery has lasted 7+ years but the M600 hardly needs any effort to start. On the other hand, my diesel car which has an enormous battery under the rear seat gets through one every 3 years or so. Each time it has failed in the same way - seems fine but will only crank once or twice before giving up - this is because of partial failure within the battery and it is a right pain as you think the battery is fine and look elsewhere for the problems it causes.

My advice is buy the highest crank current capable battery and keep it on an optimate or similar while the bike is laid up. If I did that with my car, I'm sure the battery would last a lot longer. I fully expect to have battery problems with the Panigale due to the miniscule size of the thing and the struggle it has to start (needs compression reducer apparently). I'll probably go down the motobat route for that.

Fun fact: Aston Martin provide a battery conditioner with every car they sell. I guess there are fair weather Aston drivers. Or the alarm takes a load of current.

[Darren69]

There was an interesting technical article on batteries, the different types and how they work in Feb issue of Practical Sportsbikes.

https://magazinesubscriptionsdigital.zinio.com/browse/issues/index.jsp?skuId=416365551&prnt=&categoryId=cat1960058

[BLUNT]

Every single post you have made has been argumentive but brought nothing to counter the claims.

If you have nothing to add to the forum I suggest you **** off.

If anyone only gets 3 years from a battery then they are either buying cheapo unbranded batteries or, if buying a quality battery such as Yuasa or MotoBatt, then they are not maintaining it properly. Bad maintenance is leaving it for a long period in a discharged state or using the wrong type of charger.

As I said before, some of you guys are too sensitive.

[slob]

As I said before, some of you guys are too sensitive.

I disagree, this is just a friendlier place that many other Internet forums (fora?),
not a problem, the keyboard warriors usually get bored and **** off on their own
<insert imogee of your choice here>

[Flip]

Just to add my piece into the acid mix I personally feel that the quality of so called top name battery manufactures products have deteriorated over the past few years which I base solely on my experiences over the last few years of motorcycle ownership.

Example one, I bought a one year old GSX-R750WT in 1997, it was used regularly thoughout the Spring, Summer and nicer Autumn weather but laid up on an Optimate over Winter. It was fitted with a fully sealed gel type SUZUKI branded (probably Yuasa) battery and in the eight years I owned the bike I never had a problem with or replaced the battery and it was still going strong when I passed the bike on in 2005.

In 1999 I got the 1997 900 Monster that my mate bought new and that I still love and own today. This was fitted from new with the physically huge 16Ah Yuasa lead acid, top up with distilled water, old school type battery which despite the old Monster's old technology single phase charging system and it's ability to eat regulator rectifiers which then spill it's contents over the near side frame and engine cases (although mine never did) that first battery lasted twelve years with the bike used in much the same way as the GSX-R was.

So in 2009 I paid top money (I think it was the most expensive option at the time) for another Yuasa despite my reservations of the old technology design but based on my previous battery having last so well- it didn't!! I got exactly two years six months from it.

Battery number three was then purchased and this time a Motobatt as everyone at the time was raving about them (and still are pretty much) and so far so good, we're up to four and half years with this one and counting. Although I will say I have had one Motobatt fail after only a year (replaced under warranty) on my little racer but to be honest with a total loss system it is not the best way to treat a lead acid battery even if it is a Glass Mat type.

I completely accept that this may be out of the ordinary and I would certainly go by the theory that lead acid batteries last best when the vehicle is used regularly but failing that when it is properly maintained by a suitable conditioner.

Now there's a good subject to get into- when I bought the first Motobatt battery I also bought one of their charger with the thinking that would be better than my Optimate. However when I looked at the charge rates and the way it took current in it's check mode it was a lot harsher than the way the Optimate works- whether that is related to the race bike's battery failure I am not sure but I only use Optimates now and so far no problems.

[Darren69]

Lets have a proper discussion on this. I for one would benefit from it and may learn something too? I mean in the first instance I stand by my 3 year claim, and by my own admission admit that its not ideal or acceptable when batteries for Jap bike will last twice that. Thing to remember is that big V twins really do hammer the battery on startup, compared to inline 4's.

My own experience is that my S4 csme with a new Yuasa AGM battery amd after 3 years of ownership its now on battery #2 (Motobatt AGM) which I have had for 18 months or so.

My 748 has had at least 4 batteries during my 15+ years of ownership (lead acid wet type, some Yuasa some pattern copies, no discernible difference in performance at least as far as I could tell) during this time now due its 5th as it won't turn over. So 5/15 = 3 but bear with me as that is only an average but one upon which I based my original argument borne out of my own experience and with posts on the other monstser forum, which suggest users most get the same.

Now lets consider a few things esp. after reading the article in Practical Sportsbikes.

I agree with Blunt that proper maintenance can be key to battery longevity.

AGM and lead acid batteries have different maintenance requirements.

My maintenance charger (Old Optimate) might not be the best thing to maintain my AGM battery. Different charging requirements, but oddly the bike charging system is the same for both types.

AGM batteries do not like to be left without charge as do lead/acid but lead acid batteries can be recovered more likely when deep discharged with something like Optimate, topped up etc and may be good for a little longer than the AGM type.

Ducati did have a recall with the S4 sold in the US due to fautly batteries which would split open. The batteries may have been faulty or not but would maybe suggest overcharging or incorrect charging. My own bike shows some signs of acid damage under the battery tray aswel.

AGM batteries are better than conventional lead/acid batteries esp for V-twin engines as they have more CCA.

Personally I don't have an issue with 3 years (like most I figure that it is a consumable) but if I can get another year or 2 from my battery then I'm open to suggestions).

I may consider upgrading my trickle charger to one that is more suitable for AGM batteries.

If at the end of the day I was asked if I was a battery to choose which battery I would like to be then I would choose one for an inline 4 anyday. :)

[Albie]

I had the same battery on my 1100s from new for 5.5 years. Never seen and never touched or charged in a non heated garage and bike doing no more than 1500 to 2000 miles in any year. I believe even now at nearly seven years it's still going strong but Mart64 will only know that. No time was anything electrical added to drain it but I put a power plug on my scrambler and that drains it unless ridden every week or day.

[boris]

My 620SiE is coming up 14 years old this year and still has the original Yuasa battery. As many of you have said, it's all about a bit of TLC..

[Dirty]

As I said before, some of you guys are too sensitive.

And maybe you are a bit too BLUNT.

I'm sure there is some middle ground, have a try. There is a preview post button. I use it to self edit all the time. You should have seen the first draft of this post!!!!! :chuckle:

[BLUNT]

You should have seen the first draft of this post!!!!! :chuckle:
Yes I would have loved to see it - I'm not too sensitive!..... and I don't mind jonzi and slob suggesting that I **** off.

Anyway, after my first post look at the interesting comments about batteries that have been posted.

These would not have been posted without my 'absolute nonsense' post

It would be a boring world if everyone agreed.

[Dirty]

Yes I would have loved to see it - I'm not too sensitive!..... and I don't mind jonzi and slob suggesting that I **** off.

Anyway, after my first post look at the interesting comments about batteries that have been posted.

These would not have been posted without my 'absolute nonsense' post



Yes a lot of good things came out of WW2 but no one is thanking the Nazi's for starting it!

Try exerting your positive influence in a manner that all can appreciate rather than one that you have to be hard as nails to take in.

[Kaybe]

My dukes’ original batteries have gone 8-10 years when on an optimate. The point being that they are continually hooked up when the bike is not is use sitting in the garage.
Alarms / trackers / cold weather are all serious energy drainers to a battery especially now when it is the cold crank ampage that you need to consider.
I see you say “and regularly put it on an optimate.” If you can have it attached all the time would be my advice.

[TonyG]

Yes, that is something I was going to ask, I tend to just hook it up at the weekend for a few hours, perhaps I should leave it on the optimate all the time over winter?

[Kaybe]

Yes, that is something I was going to ask, I tend to just hook it up at the weekend for a few hours, perhaps I should leave it on the optimate all the time over winter?

If you are able to do that, I would leave it on all the time.