Tank swelling quite a bit now and getting rid of ethanol

[Gerry]

Hi all

Just thought I'd say a bit regarding swelling tanks on S2X bikes.

My 2006 S2r is suffering a bit now with the swelling tank issue. I've only got a couple of mil left before the front of the tank hits the latch. the two rubber pads are coming off the frame rails. On the right side of the tank the knee cut out is deforming a bit.

I will file the slots in the tank bracket to shift the tank back a couple of mil to buy maybe another year or so. I don't really intend to get rid of my S2r It's all I need.

I have been lucky in that I found a NOS tank in italy correct colour quite cheap. i will delay using this yummy new tank until I really have to.

What I am going to do is make my own Ethanol free fuel and therefore remove the problem of the water absorbed by the Ethanol swelling the tank. If I fill up regularly using my own fuel as much as I can ... hopefully will delay the requirement for the new tank. Google ethanol removal ... basically add water to unleaded about 5% at the moment shake it around for a while ....the water is absorbed by the Ethanol .... you then drain the water/Ethanol mix away. This can drop the Octane by a couple of points... so better to start with supergreen.

Going to try it as bored to death ...... hate january .....

[Mr Gazza]

Dacs was telling me about the ethanol removal only this weekend.

He also told me about some super distilled ethanol free petrol that he got from the local chainsaw and Mower shop....I forget the price...I think it was about £10 a litre or something mad.
It is intended for machines which stand a long time with petrol in, by their nature, such as mowers and chainsaws.
Dacs got it just for the winter lay-up.

I have also heard that plastic tanks can go back to thier original shape by drying them out and ventilating them over a period of months. But not sure what the effect of drying out is on the pump?

[Yorkie]

I have a Sport Classic tank that has suffered from the paint pealing, once I have welded it I will be using this:

http://www.cwylde.co.uk/section.php?xSec=5

Yorkie

[Dave G]

My SC has been affected by our ethanol diluted petrol and it's tank is currently sitting beside me in the house having been emptied and removed from it's place to recover it's shape in the next few months, many of the U.S. guys report a return to shape and size(more or less) when it's left empty and dry for a bit soI guess I'll find out whether that's worth it in a bit.
If it works then the S2R will be next for a dry month or two.

In the meantime Ducati can go whistle as I'll not buy another from them, and though they've stopped using ascerbis plastic tank they sure as f*ck washed their hands on this issue and left us to sort it ourselves.
So F you Ducati, my next bike will be an old Sunbeam.

[Gerry]

Dacs was telling me about the ethanol removal only this weekend.

He also told me about some super distilled ethanol free petrol that he got from the local chainsaw and Mower shop....I forget the price...I think it was about £10 a litre or something mad.
It is intended for machines which stand a long time with petrol in, by their nature, such as mowers and chainsaws.
Dacs got it just for the winter lay-up.

I have also heard that plastic tanks can go back to thier original shape by drying them out and ventilating them over a period of months. But not sure what the effect of drying out is on the pump?

Describes my bike well ....:chuckle:

[DrD]

My Aprilia suffers from the same problem - the winter layoff sees it with minimal fuel (plus an anti-ethanol conditioner) and it shrinks back. Be wary of the seal and internal fuel pump issues if you let it dry out completely.

[uncle duke]

out of interest what anti ethanol conditioner do you use , as i'm worried about damaging the cat (& o2 sensor)

[Wildfire]

You can always get the tank coated.

My MV suffered from this in 2 years and 9 days. Just out of warranty. MV replaced the tank FOC, sent me one that has apparently had the issue addressed (now I'm paranoid and off to look at the tank) and said that they would replace the tank again if it happened again.

There are some coatings you can have put in, if you dry it out.

[Nickj]

Ethanol is really good at holding water in fuel, almost volume for volume levels which you could be buying anything up to 5% water.

Do google suggest a way to get rid of the ethanol and water mix remaining?

[Nottsbiker]

Practical superbike ran an article about this around a month or so ago. There is a kit you can buy for around fifty quid for making your own ethanol free fuel at home. Will see if I can find it. ..

[jerry]

during layups or winter , empty the tank and it will shrink back if stored in a dry place or fill with pure benzine ..

[Drumnagorrach]

Hi all

Just thought I'd say a bit regarding swelling tanks on S2X bikes.

My 2006 S2r is suffering a bit now with the swelling tank issue. I've only got a couple of mil left before the front of the tank hits the latch. the two rubber pads are coming off the frame rails. On the right side of the tank the knee cut out is deforming a bit.

I will file the slots in the tank bracket to shift the tank back a couple of mil to buy maybe another year or so. I don't really intend to get rid of my S2r It's all I need.

I have been lucky in that I found a NOS tank in italy correct colour quite cheap. i will delay using this yummy new tank until I really have to.

What I am going to do is make my own Ethanol free fuel and therefore remove the problem of the water absorbed by the Ethanol swelling the tank. If I fill up regularly using my own fuel as much as I can ... hopefully will delay the requirement for the new tank. Google ethanol removal ... basically add water to unleaded about 5% at the moment shake it around for a while ....the water is absorbed by the Ethanol .... you then drain the water/Ethanol mix away. This can drop the Octane by a couple of points... so better to start with supergreen.

Going to try it as bored to death ...... hate january .....

Although my tank ( same model same year ) has swollen it doesn't seem to be changing shape but like yours the tank was hard against the clamp and the rubbers underneath were out board of the frame rails . I did file out the rear mounting bracket and moved it back ,maybe 5 mm and at the moment that has given me a reprieve . I have made a bracket that will allow 10 mm more rearward movement but the seat catch at the back limits this amount of movement . I tried the seat of my M900 2002 ,it has a removable rear catch pin but the seat sat higher and the catch didn't engage ,so I made a longer rear catch and I can fit the old seat and it will mount further back to allow the tank back .
Only problem to all this buggering about, is the old seat is damn uncomfortable , the 2006 S2R seat looks the same but must have more forgiving foam and isn't a pain in the arse .
Of course all my efforts are only putting off the inevitable tank change ,but they should give me enough time to save up for an alloy tank .

[garry]

just been reading a lil about this issue, and its bloody scary.. especially for a ducati....

[Gerry]

Ethanol is really good at holding water in fuel, almost volume for volume levels which you could be buying anything up to 5% water.

Do google suggest a way to get rid of the ethanol and water mix remaining?

Quite easy really, add just over 5% by volume water to the fuel and shake it for a while. If you have it in the right type of container you can drain the water/ethanol mix off from the lowest point as the eth/water mix sits at the bottom of the fuel. I'll google it again but it only seemed to take a few minutes before you could drain it off.

Thats basically what the kit is, just the correct type of containers.

[Aviatore]

Do google suggest a way to get rid of the ethanol and water mix remaining?

I think you mean what to do with it after its been siphoned off... if so:

Only suggestions I've seen in googling this issue are people saying to to pour it down the drain... which of course are promptly shouted down as illegal. Not to mention pretty irresponsible if it weren't.

I'm thinking that it probably wouldn't matter much separating out the ethanol for daily rides or while on a road trip where I knew I'd burn off the fuel before it had a chance to swell my tank. Laying up in the garage and letting it sit over a vacation or winter seems to be where the risk of water separation and tank swelling really is.

Since that's now a storage issue I think separating out the ethanol would be a once or twice a year event. That wouldn't create too much waste ethanol/water mix. 10% of a Mevo tank yielding about 1.4L of it right?

How about storing it in a jerry can and slowly using it up in a car over a few weeks? Pour in 50ml every time you fill up so its well diluted. Don't think that would hurt the car's system in such small amounts.

Thoughts?

[Gerry]

My Aprilia suffers from the same problem - the winter layoff sees it with minimal fuel (plus an anti-ethanol conditioner) and it shrinks back. Be wary of the seal and internal fuel pump issues if you let it dry out completely.

Not sure there is a conditioner which stops the water content absorbing into the PA6 fuel tank plastic.

[nambduke]

Happened to my 04 M1000 a few years ago and ducati wouldn't change the tank. Instead they replaced the rear mount and frame mounting rubbers. As a result the mod pushes the tank backwards and puts pressure on the seat so it can be difficult to get the seat to latch properly sometimes

A proper Italian bodge!

[damien666]

Take the waste to your local household waste site (dumpit) and pour it in the waste oil facility. It's got to be the safest bet.:look:

[DrD]

Not sure there is a conditioner which stops the water content absorbing into the PA6 fuel tank plastic.
May be not but I use http://www.frost.co.uk/automotive-car-bike-maintenance/classic-vehicle-additives/ethomix-additive.html, primarily for my 1986 Spider and the M900 over winter. The RSVR gets some too. None have cats to worry about.
They say endorsed by the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (FBHVC) as a fuel additive for protection against corrosion and stability improver

[Wildfire]

just been reading a lil about this issue, and its bloody scary.. especially for a ducati....

So far the list affected are: Ducati, Aprillia, Triumph, MV Agusta, Moto Guzzi and KTM. You think they would have fixed it by now as it's been going on years.

I believe there was a class action law suit against Ducati in the US.

Many manufacturers get around it by sticking a clause in the manual that says "Do not use ethanol fuel." or such like.

[Dave G]

So far the list affected are: Ducati, Aprillia, Triumph, MV Agusta, Moto Guzzi and KTM. You think they would have fixed it by now as it's been going on years.

I believe there was a class action law suit against Ducati in the US.

Many manufacturers get around it by sticking a clause in the manual that says "Do not use ethanol fuel." or such like.

The US class action was a waste of time, nothing came of it.


"Do not use ethanol fuel." is as useless as a get out clause as all commercially available fuel contains ethanol to some degree.

It's a hassle for most of us, on my SC it meant ultimate failure of an MOT as the tank swelled to trap thumbs against bars on a bike with very little steering lock as standard so it's not just a cosmetic issue and the manufacturers have stuck their heads in the sand hoping it will go away, - it probably will, but so will I as a customer.

[Gerry]

So far the list affected are: Ducati, Aprillia, Triumph, MV Agusta, Moto Guzzi and KTM. You think they would have fixed it by now as it's been going on years.

I believe there was a class action law suit against Ducati in the US.

Many manufacturers get around it by sticking a clause in the manual that says "Do not use ethanol fuel." or such like.

which means no longer using the bike ..... (unless you have an airfield nearby) Avgas ...:)

[Wildfire]

The US class action was a waste of time, nothing came of it.


"Do not use ethanol fuel." is as useless as a get out clause as all commercially available fuel contains ethanol to some degree.

It's a hassle for most of us, on my SC it meant ultimate failure of an MOT as the tank swelled to trap thumbs against bars on a bike with very little steering lock as standard so it's not just a cosmetic issue and the manufacturers have stuck their heads in the sand hoping it will go away, - it probably will, but so will I as a customer.

Yes, all in all very disappointing from the manufacturers.

I found the clause in my MV manual and a bit pi$$ed off. I had a bit of a rant at the MV rep about that. But to be fair MV have been awesome over the whole issue.

I believe all MV tanks that are "cured" have a grey do on the bottom. The pre-swelling issue had green. No idea about Ducati.

[Gerry]

My new old stock black/orange tank has arrived. The idea now is to not use it until I really have to. Sort of an insurance really.

I'll remove my tank and the fittings and see if I can dry it out over winter. One thing I may do is get another bracket made up for the tank pivot. I think it is a little too narrow where the pivot is because I think it needs a little more thickness in the rubber bushes. The tank material is quite thin around the pivot hole and mine was damaged a little where the rubber bush was damaged by repeated lifting of the tank .... the bracket "bit" through the bush. I plan to replace the rubber bushes but also put a nylon shim in there to protect the rubber bush from the steel bracket. I'll also have to source a longer clevis pin.

[Gerry]

Oh yeah ..... don't hinge the tank up with more than dregs in it. If you have quite a bit of fuel in ....It puts a big strain on the pivot area of the tank hence the damaged bush ....

[jerry]

There is a manufacturing fix for PA6 plastic tanks it is to manufacture them with PEX instead but Acerbis wont do that as PEX is outlawed by USA EPA regulations ,, although legal in rest of the world ,PEX was the original specified material but due to the USA regulations PA6 was prefered .