cylinder not firing

[gallardo]

Hi guys,
Had the motorbike (M600, X reg) in the garage in Kings Cross. Was just losing power and just not running properly. Turns out that carbs in pretty bad condition and spark plug won't fire one of the cilinders.
Cliff, garage owner, said that my options are either send the carbs to repair to specialist garage (£500+) or carry a new spark plug with me all the time with the spanner and swap when that happens. Got the bike out of the garage and paid £175 and feel no improvement in it at all rather than knowing what's wrong with it

Not sure what to do as it's a 15 year old bike, however unusual black and yellow limited and really like it. Thoughts?

[don_matese]

Fix the carbs - swapping out the spark plug is no use. Theres a fair few on ebay just now http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xducati+mo nster+m600+carbs.TRS0&_nkw=ducati+monster+m600+carbs&_sacat=0

[Dukedesmo]

Seems odd, either it's fuel or spark (or both)? but I fail to see how changing the plug would fix a fuelling problem?

I had the wire from the ignition module to coil fall out of a crimped connector, meaning my bike dropped onto just one cylinder. Funny thing is it sounded fine at idle and was only noticeable when it wouldn't accelerate as normal and it struggled get past 50mph...

[Dukedesmo]

Also £500 to fix the carbs? :eek:

[Flip]

Also £500 to fix the carbs? :eek:

In the same vein what did they do for the £175???

Surely they either fix it and charge you for the work or admit defeat and you get your bike back the same as it went in??

[Darren69]

If the fuel mixture is wrong it will foul the plugs and they will stop working. I had it on my Laverda that I built and restored from boxes of parts. I stripped the carbs and had them utrasonic cleaned in the chemistry lab at work and then rebuilt them. Once they had fouled up the plugs no amount of cleaning would make them work again. Once I had the carbs set up it was fine. So in your case did they give you a more detailed explanation of what the exact problem was? I know mixture screws on those type are prone to seize and if they have then its probably best to get a new set or are they just worn?

I would certainly expect a detailed breakdown of what work they had actually done for £175! Any decent mechanic should be able to repair them if its just something like worn needles, jets, emulsion tubes, diaphrams etc as the same carbs are used on a number of Japanese 2 cyl bikes TDM/TRX 850 Yamaha and a number of others so the parts are available.

[Darren69]

If I were you I would swap the coils and ignition leads over and see if the problem stays with the same cylinder or moves to the other one.

[Pedro]

Go see Ray at Rosso Corse, best in London

[gallardo]

Basically the garage owner at Kings X Motorcycles, Cliff, told me exactly that. That in order to get them ultrasonic clean and sent to the lab, we were talking of £500.

In all fairness he had it all over Xmas and spent quite a few hours in it, that's why he charged me £150 labour + £15 spark plug. He says he did clean the carbs, etc.. but true, I feels like £175 wasted money.

I'd take it to Ray, in Rosso Corse, I've used them before, but they can be a bit dear, and I wouldn't want to spend much more money on the bike now.

As for the ebay carbs, U think that would that sort out my problem?

[don_matese]

I had a very similar issue on my 1995 M600. I've changed as much as I could from the cheap (HT Lead and plug caps) to the expensive (coils and Carb overhaul) - its still not perfect as the carbs can flood but its a lot better.

Check the HT Leads and Plug cap resistance - should be able to separate them. I had the later types of coils which meant you could unscrew the coppercore HT lead and cut a new length and screw it back in - bit of care on that.

When it was dark you could see some arcing from the plug cap and lead to the cylinder head which led to a poor spark and ultimately a fouled plug. When refitting my new plug caps and leads I made sure to use some dark silicone sealant around the lead where it goes into the cap to ensure no water gets in there.

After that I found occasionally the plugs were getting fouled from the bike sitting still, found it was a stuck float so swapped that out and replaced the jets at the same time (might as well seeing as I got it all to bits anyway).

Finally I got a rebuild kit for the fuel pump that helped out too as it meant it wasn't leaking fuel into the carbs when not running.

All in all, fix the bike and use it as it will run better and be less problematic that way.

[Ursa]

Alternatively if watching the cash is a concern and you don't mind getting a little bit dirty, if you take it to Matt at Oval Motorcycle Centre, he can have a look, advise on what bits to get, and you can rent a bench and he'll supervise and help with the repair. It's £23 an hour bench time, and you get free use of all the tools.

[Darren69]

I'd still try swapping all the ignition wiring over at least that would rule that out before you started messing about with the carbs as Don says it could be something as simple as a dodgy HT cap (btw if you have those old NGK type with the metal sheids, bin the shields. I had some on my old 900SS and they used to light up like a xmas tree in the dark and also I had tried Splitfire plugs which were recommended at the time and they didn't work either (absolute rubbish it used to backfire like mad with those).

I guess it comes down to how much you intend to spend. If you pay a garage to repair the carbs it could cost close to 400-500 with their labour costs. You could do it yourself and it would still cost you around 200 maybe more, (unless you have access to an ultrasonic bath) iirc the rebuild kits are like 60-80 per carb.

Or you could take a punt on a good s.hand set for a lot less and fit them yourself would need to get them balanced and if they came from another bike other than a 600 then they may need re-jetting to suit eg (750-900) as they may be slightly different (Im not sure bit someone on here will for sure.)

if you buy a s/hand set just make sure that the mixture screws aren't seized!

[Dirty]

I'm pretty sure there are places that do a postal service for ultrasonic carb cleaning and they are nowhere near £500. Try a goog on it

[utopia]

Its a long shot as a total solution but at this time of year most if not all carby monsters will suffer carb icing.
Might be worth eliminating that possibility by dosing the fuel with proFST (from Silkolene) ... it just might make a difference.
In fact I would say it almost certainly will make some difference, though you may have other carb issues too.
My 750 (Y reg) ran like a sick dog at tickover the last two times out.

[SteveG]

As Dirty says... £500 is over the top.

I hear TSR are brilliant.

Carb cleaning ultrasonic about £50 the pair. Then have them blasted to look like new for an extra £50..

A lot of bike clubs / restorers use them.


http://www.tsrvapourblasting.co.uk/prices.html

[Capstandriver]

It might be worth looking at your coils, my M600 had a coil that was fine when it was cold but packed in when it warmed up sometimes (intermittent problems are a real pain to diagnose). The HT side on a test meter it was only a couple of thousand ohms down on spec but it looks like it was enough to stop it from working properly. The plug was sparking OK but it looks like it was not sufficient, this was after I stripped and cleaned both carbs and checked all the electrics on the ignition side....

[gallardo]

Seems to be running a bit better now. I bought the fst pro and I have started using the better unleaded petrol. In the mornings I have to play with the choke and feel it right, that the cylinder fires up. That's really helped so many thanks for your help guys. Not sure of what the solution may be in the long run??

I am mainly in town in first, second and third gear. When I open up gas seems to misbehave thought..

[JMH900sie]

I do offer a carb sonic clean and rebuild service, that would definitely help with running.....

UKMOC discount too

Pm me if you want a quote

Joe

[gallardo]

Hi Joe,

Yes def I'd be interested in that

Please let us have a quote