M900 or M800 Views Please

[rbt1548]

I have been looking at these two bikes , 1997 M900 , 9000 miles, mot's to back up mileage and a 05 plate, M800sie, 14,000 miles ,(it'll probably be a 2003/4 bike late registered).

Both are in very good condition, with the M800 being the dearer by about £400-£500, and the M900 possibly having had the tank repainted with the later font on it.

I know in the end it will be my decision to take either or none but could I please have some views on the pros and cons of each please, and an idea of possible max price for either?

I have had a 1999 M900 before and regret parting with it but the M800 looks nice and it has Ducati performance pipes.

All views appreciated.
Cheers

[Albie]

M800 is a strong engine just a bigger m750 and really like the 796. Sounds better value overall but it's whether you want older or the improved version. 750 was the best intermediate bike as Utopia will tell you so on that basis the 800 is great just like an S2R 800.

[Darren69]

M800 is probably rarer too. I don't think they made them for very long before S2R came out?

[smiffyraf1]

the 900 has to be the more desirable for me. had a 750 and loved it and know the 800 is meant to be good. but the 900 has the dry clutch sound which is hard to beat!

[utopia]

Yep, I love my 750.
In my opinion it has enough power for most practical situations, only losing out on high speed motorway blasts (if that's your thing .. I do very little of it).
Injected M800 sounds great as it has just a tad more, as well as no carb-icing issues in winter (could be relevant in Glasgow). Downside of injection might be that its less diy-friendly though.
Also, better than S2R in my opinion as it presumably has a double sided swingarm which, in my opinion, is the better solution (though admittedly it doesn't look as trick).
Does it have a wet clutch .. the 900 will have the dry clutch rattle but if you can live without that, a wet one is much more trouble free.
There was a semi-slipper clutch on some bikes around that time. I'm not sure that they have a particularly good reputation (though I'm quoting heresay, with no personal experience). Maybe this one is just a tad earlier though, an escapes that issue .. worth a check perhaps.
And as a general rule, most folk say that the newer but regularly used bike is a better bet than one which, despite lower mileage, has stood idle in its past history .. which conventional wisdom says that Ducatis don't like.
Final point, the 800 might be more friendly/smoother in traffic than the 900, partly down to the engine/clutch characteristics and partly down to the fuel injection .. though again I'm quoting heresay rather than personal experience.

[rbt1548]

Yep, I love my 750.
Does it have a wet clutch .

There was a semi-slipper clutch on some bikes around that time. I'm not sure that they have a particularly good reputation (though I'm quoting heresay, with no personal experience). Maybe this one is just a tad earlier though, an escapes that issue .. worth a check perhaps.
.

Thanks to all for you thoughts, much appreciated.

Yes, the 800 has the wet clutch, how could I tell, apart from opening it up, if it had the semi-slipper clutch?

[slob]

Utopia has pretty much covered it.
No slipper(ATPC) in the 800ie, it came in the following year on the S2R

[Flip]

Unsurprisingly I'm with Smiffy on this one as I have owned my '97 for almost seventeen years and love it more now than ever.

As you've had a 900 before you're aware of the dry clutch and it's uniqueness but I have to say they're no more trouble than a wet one if given a little mechanical sympathy but can get a bit over-heated in heavy traffic but an open cover helps and lets that lovely rattle out to the masses.

Others have said it already but if you enjoy playing with spanners then the carb'd bike is a little more attractive from that point too.

Trying to be objective, the 800 is a great bike with 'almost the original' styling it having the later ST frame rather than the 900's 888 derived one. It will also have slightly better suspension (but basic with no rear height adjustment or fork adjustability) and of course the later fitment axle sizes and brake caliper bolt spacing along with more modern switch gear, clocks etc.

My friend bought my bike new and I always loved it from the moment I first saw it, the way it looked parked up, the way it sounded and the way it's lazy V (L) twin power flattered his riding (not saying he was rubbish btw) compared to the FZR that I owned at the time. When he came to sell it as he didn't use it very much it was an easy decision for me to buy it (I had a SRAD GSX-R by then) and did so with very little research so it was pretty much one of the heart rather than the head- especially as I had test ridden a 996 and didn't really like it!

However, for a little while after seeing a 900ie I wish I had waited and bought one of those as they just seemed a little more refined and modern looking- more of what I was used to with modern sports bikes but still offering what I wanted- something to stop things getting 'silly' on the road.

But it wasn't too long until the 'Ducati' thing got me well and truly and once that happened all the anoraky history and heritage of the Cagiva brothers original means if it were my choice I would buy the 900, get the tank decals sorted to their original design and spend the money where it needed until it is just right (for you).

[Pedro]

I'd go with the 900 for much the same as Flipper says

Ped

[yusaf1]

I bought an 800sie as an ex demo in 2004 and still have it. Reliabilty wise I think is luck of the draw generally as to how they have been kept, used, serviced etc.
In the years gone by I have only met 1 other 800sie owner and I like that "bespokeish" feeling of having something a bit more unusual although the 900 is still a good bike.
The wet clutch plates lasted 12k before they started to slip but fairly simple and cheap to change.

[Darren69]

As I said the 800 may be more desirable because of its rarety value alone. Well the early carb 900s are always gonna command a higher price and are a safe bet financially but not necessarily a better bike than the 800.

A Ducati expert and ex Ducati club racer once said to me when looking to buy a Ducati 'Buy the newest Ducati that you can afford' And thats good advice since the newer bikes have all the benefits of improvements over the years and less of the faults that the older bikes have. Which is so true although the Monster was born in an era when most of the quality issues Ducati were having had been addressed. Some better than others, which is why I think that good advice, the early bikes still have a lot of issues which by now may or may not have been sorted!

[Flip]

A Ducati expert and ex Ducati club racer once said to me when looking to buy a Ducati 'Buy the newest Ducati that you can afford'

Ahhh bugger!!! Too late for me- that's my other two Ducatis bought against his advice. :mand:
http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag329/fluke900/Naughty%20Corner_zpshrfoimrr.jpg (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/fluke900/media/Naughty%20Corner_zpshrfoimrr.jpg.html)

I bought an 800sie as an ex demo in 2004 and still have it. Reliabilty wise I think is luck of the draw generally as to how they have been kept, used, serviced etc. The wet clutch plates lasted 12k before they started to slip but fairly simple and cheap to change.

I think there is some truth in that, my thirty odd thousand mile 900 is still on the original clutch and basket. It is a little noisy now and I will probably replace over the Winter but careful maintenance has kept it sweet and trouble free.
I think problems occur with them when people ride them like the would a wet clutch or in heavy traffic slipping them too much. They do make for a bit of a 'light switch' delivery when avoiding slipping them but they seem to prefer it wear wise.

[utopia]

And, as I have discovered, once you decide on a wet clutch monster ...and then fall in love with it ...you will be forever doomed to the purgatory of hearing the clutch rattle, but it being just beyond your grasp.
I've nearly come to terms with it now, but it never quite goes away completely. :rolleyes:

[popelli]

buy the 900

lower mileage and a bigger engine

the old adage is a good big motor will always beat a good small motor almost always holds true

ands its a proper ducati with a dry clutch

[Darkness]

Neither are nearly new, and the engines are near enough the same size. You aren't certain about mileage, so isn't the choice down to whether you like fuel injection and most importantly condition.
I'd say "Buy the best Ducati you can afford" rather than "Buy the newest". That's generally the same thing for a few years whilst dealer maintained, but becomes increasingly less so as different owners treat them differently.
I knew my best when I saw it: you need to choose yours. Get it right and you've a keeper, which you can see from the posts above can be an m750, m800 or m900. I'm not sure why the m600ers are so quiet, as they have their devotees too?

[popelli]

I'm not sure why the m600ers are so quiet, as they have their devotees too?

600 has a horsepower disadvantage over the others

nice bike to ride, wife has one but the 900 is far quicker

[Darren69]

The 600 is a good starting point for Ducati ownership, its a great bike with loads of character and is basically the same its bigger brothers but I always felt that they felt a little underpowered and the bigger ones have more of everything. The 750 and upwards is where the engine starts to make more sense and the 'fun' really starts.

If you've already had a 900 the 800 is a good alternative. If I were forced to choose a 2V Monster personally though it would have to be the S2R1000, maybe thats out of budget realistically for you but I think that and possibly the 900sie or 1000ie are the best of the rest and once you ride an ie Ducati you won't want to go back to carbs really as it solves most of the shortcomings of the carb bikes. (Still needs fettling mind) but they drive so much nicer imho.

I did happen to notice a few weeks back 3 or 4 nice S2R1000's up for sale on fleabay at the same time, which I thought was a bit unusual but now there are none!

[rbt1548]

. The 750 and upwards is where the engine starts to make more sense and the 'fun' really starts.

If I were forced to choose a 2V Monster personally though it would have to be the S2R1000, maybe thats out of budget realistically for you

I did happen to notice a few weeks back 3 or 4 nice S2R1000's up for sale on fleabay at the same time, which I thought was a bit unusual but now there are none!

Thankfully, I am lucky, and have been saving my pennies so really it is open to what I get, if anything.
The S2R, although a nice bike, is not really for me, it has a plastic/nylon tank and I have had a similar tank on my V11 Le Mans and for some reason they seem to have that phenomenon which also occasionally strikes persons of a certain age, their middles seem to stretch without you noticing and sometimes they can't get them back into shape.

I like the older style and I think that's the style I'll look for. I am swaying towards the M800, as I spoke to the gent with the M900 and there are a couple of things that were a bit vague, and it has just over 2 months MOT.
The M800, on the other hand, is a bit dearer, but is lovely and has a full service history and just had a full documented service, inc. belts, chains and sprockets and a brand new MOT and a warranty. I would have done all that anyway so the cost probably balances itself out by the time I had bought a bike then bought all the stuff for servicing etc., so it's thoughts over the weekend.

It's the electronics on the newer bikes that kind of make me wary, I've got FI on the ST3 but luckily I've not had to do anything with it yet. I've read a bit about the setting up of TPS etc. on Ducati's and I don't think I've quite grasped it yet. Working on the bikes is fine as I've restored a few in the past and manage to keep my Lightning Clubman and Guzzi 1000S going, but I think it's the thought of black boxes where you can't see what's going on instead of seeing a moving part where you can see if it's not doing it's thing that has made me a bit wary. I'm sure once I get into it I'll be fine.

Thanks once again for everybody's input and help, it has been much appreciated.

Cheers

[smiffyraf1]

you could always save up a few more pennies and get the best of them all m1000. newest but still old style. id imagine maybe slightly rarer than the m800?? that Dual Spark engine is unbeatable though.

[rbt1548]

you could always save up a few more pennies and get the best of them all m1000. newest but still old style. id imagine maybe slightly rarer than the m800?? that Dual Spark engine is unbeatable though.

I know it's a great bike with a smashing engine unfortunately it's not the saving up, it's the finding :chuckle:

[smiffyraf1]

its what i replaced my accident destroyed 750 with recently. the difference is immense! and has a dry clutch! whoop! they do come up, and surprisingly enough not for daft money, looking at tidy 900 price. you are definitely buying at the right time in regards to getting a good deal. id just wait till one comes along that ticks all the boxes and buy it but dont settle for something you are not 100% happy with.

[jerry]

I have both wet and dry clutch ducatis S4 and M750 , and i have owned M900 and SS models I love both but if i had to keep only one it would be the do it all ubiquitus M750 simply brilliant machine ....
M800 has more power than carb 750 due to EFI and also 6 speed box which is good

[rbt1548]

I have both wet and dry clutch ducatis S4 and M750 , and i have owned M900 and SS models I love both but if i had to keep only one it would be the do it all ubiquitus M750 simply brilliant machine ....
M800 has more power than carb 750 due to EFI and also 6 speed box which is good

Thanks to all, and I've taken cognisance of your vast collective knowledge, thought long and hard about it, and taking all things into consideration I went for the 2005 M800.


I was, maybe, a wee bit more than I wanted to pay, but it's coming with a full service history, I know sometimes that doesn't amount to much, but at least it's got one, just been fully serviced, inc belts and valves, and a new chain and sprockets kit has just been fitted, a full years mot, 3 months warranty, and a set of Ducati Performance silencers.

I thought if I was to buy a cheaper bike and do the servicing and the rest it all could end up close to or even dearer than what I paid with everything done.

Thanks again to everyone, and a big thanks especially to Flip :thumbsup:

[utopia]

This was the telling comment ....

[QUOTE=rbt1548;520258]
The M800, on the other hand, is a bit dearer, but is lovely ......
[QUOTE]

It is important to start by considering the practicalities, but once they've been covered it is essential to follow your heart when buying a monster.
Sounds like you've done both.
Congratulations on your new arrival.
Tbh, from my perspective, besotted with my 750, the 800ie sounds great.
Ok, I'm with you on the wariness towards the electronic black box thing but you'll get no carb icing, plus you have a sixth gear (which the 750 is very close to needing) and a dollop of extra power.
All in a steel tanked, double sided swinger'd package with the later style 3-spoke wheels and the various improvements of later models.
I'm not familiar with the ATPC slipper clutches but my instinct is that you're better off without it.

We'll be needing pictures, of course.

[Darren69]

I think the 800 sounds a sensible choice. I've no experience with this type of slipper clutch, only the conventional kind, but there's some info on the APTC clutch here:-

http://www.sportrider.com/ducati-aptc-clutch

http://www.adige.eu/public/ENG/products/aptc.asp

I'm sure if you wanted you could upgrade to one from the S2R

[Darkness]

.......thought long and hard about it, and taking all things into consideration I went for the 2005 M800.

A fine choice Sir, now enjoy!

[rbt1548]

This was the telling comment ....

[QUOTE=rbt1548;520258]
The M800, on the other hand, is a bit dearer, but is lovely ......
[QUOTE]

I'm not familiar with the ATPC slipper clutches but my instinct is that you're better off without it.

We'll be needing pictures, of course.


I'm not sure it has a slipper clutch, Slob mentioned earlier that it didn't come on the 800 until the S2R.

I have some pics, but only from the dealer's site as I haven't got it yet, so these will need to do for now, I have reduced the size a bit so hope they are ok.
Thanks again guys for your help.

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/rbt1548/111_zpsl8vlcl1y.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/user/rbt1548/media/111_zpsl8vlcl1y.jpg.html)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/rbt1548/media.jpg2_zpskkmm00r4.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/user/rbt1548/media/media.jpg2_zpskkmm00r4.jpg.html)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/rbt1548/media.jpg4_zpsg9vsekxl.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/user/rbt1548/media/media.jpg4_zpsg9vsekxl.jpg.html)

[Albie]

It looks superb condition. Good choice sir

[Mr Gazza]

That looks absolutely mint chap....Well done.

I have followed this thread with great interest and taken ages to form an opinion, but I think I would have gone for the 800....In your OP you said it was an M800Sie...The "S" alone would have done it for me....Is it really an Sie? I can't zoom into the picture enough to read the side panel.

[smiffyraf1]

the S seems to mean completely different things on different models. cant see adjusters on this one and doesnt look like a carbon hugger that the 900 S had ( although my 1000 S didnt have a carbon hugger either. ) the engine cases look immaculate though. looks a good un.

[rbt1548]

I am pretty sure it was advertised as an S, I will, of course, check. I had a bit of a look on the 'net to see what constituted an S for the 800 and it seems to be a bit vague, screen was one thing, there may have been others but I can't recall .

I went onto the Ducati Model Archive site, and it mentions a 2003 M800 as an S but a 2004 as an M800, as mine is an 05 plate it's probably an 2003 or 2004 one that's been late registered, I'll check the date on the frame number when it comes. Archive site here:

http://ducati.com/bikes/archive/index.do?firstYear=2006&step=-1&page=10

If it's not, I'm not too bothered, I'm just glad to have finally got a Monster again and hopefully one where I don't have to start sorting things out, that just takes the gloss off getting a bike, getting it home and finding this and that needs done is one way of making you not gel with the bike and makes you feel crap, been there and it's not a good feeling.

[jerry]

Nice bike ,, just needs some C/F cans and an ecu tweak and it will be PUUURRRFECT

[Darren69]

Yes, very nice. Looks almost mint, obviously has been a well cared for, dry weather bike.

[Darren69]

Generally speaking on 2v S versions the newer it is , due to cost cutting the less special parts you would get. 900Sie '01 is the highest spec 2V S with Ohlins, fancy rear brake etc.

this is from the MCN website so I can't verify its accuracy:-

Other versions


Ducati M750 Monster Dark: “Budget” version. Matt black, no seat cowl and a little bit cheaper. Introduced in 1999, discontinued 2001 when an “ie” Dark was launched, along with the Ducati M750ie Monster (both were discontinued the following year).
Ducati M750ie Monster: Essentially the same as the standard bike but with fuel injection. Introduced 2001, discontinued 2002.
Ducati M800 Monster : The 803cc version, launched in 2002 with six gears, 73bhp, a lighter clutch and more ground clearance. Discontinued at the end of 2003 when it morphed in to the Monster S2R.
Ducati M800S Monster: “Special” version of the new model with alloy swingarm, bikini fairing and carbon fibre body parts. Discontinued in 2005.

So it may have come originally with carbon fibre side panels and exhaust shields I would guess and probably not a lot else

[utopia]

That looks like a really tidy, unmolested example ... I think you've made the right choice (and more importantly, it sounds like you feel it too).
I'm not a fan of red myself but that one, with the silver frame and "pale" engine looks good.
The screen will make faster roads a tad more pleasant but I'd lose the std mirrors and fit bar-enders.
And I thought that looked like an ally swingarm (as confirmed by Darren's specs).

Only yesterday, my 750 was suffering the early symptoms of carb icing, even down here in the midlands and on a sunny day too.
Although I share your preference for the user-friendliness of carbs I think you were wise to go for the injected model, given your geographical location.

[Dukedesmo]

Nice, looks new. :thumbsup: