The second happiest day of my motorcycling life....

[GDCobra]

Was when bought my Monster 1200S in April this year.

The first happiest day of my motorcycling life was when I sold it recently!

I'm afraid I just couldn't get used to this bike and some of its "characteristics"

I posted some of my thoughts here just after I bought it and although it did improve a little as I got used to it (and maybe it got used to me) it never behaved the way I think is 'right', I'm sorry but a bike, or any vehicle, which cannot behave correctly at the speeds the law frequently insist that I travel at should not really be sold as a road bike.

The minor annoyances such as no gear position indicator, a footrest which twists your leg into an uncomfortable position, and no possibility of fitting a quick shifter probably could have been lived with if the rest of the bike was good.
Maybe I could have improved matters if I'd had the bike re-mapped but this should not be necessary and I just got fed up spending money trying to get the bike into what it should have been when it left the factory and in any case I couldn't convince myself there was a good bike in there waiting to get out so the plug had to be pulled.

Mind you the final nail in the coffin was not the bike at all but my local dealer, I'm afraid their customer service left a lot to be desired (or maybe that's how a lot of folk accept being treated) and the amount of errors they made on the items I could see did not fill me with confidence that I should be trusting them to service my motorcycle. Although in fairness the contact I had with the guys actually holding the spanners was never negative.

So I'm sorry I won't be getting involved on this forum, I must say from what I've read it seems a nice place to be, people seem very helpful and there does not seem to be the Troll-ing problem you get on other forums. Good luck with all your Monsters

[NewMon]

Sorry to hear you didn't get on with your bike. Your comment about the footrest interested me. I have recently been test riding a number of new bikes and I've been surprised by how bad the ergonomics 'down below' can be. I've had one where the rear brake lever almost wasn't reachable, another where the gear lever was too slippery for confident upshifts and another where the side stand is almost impossible to hook with a boot. It's almost as if the concentration on electronics and powerrrr on new bikes has been at the expense of the basics.

[J.P]

Sorry to hear you're moving on but go with what you makes you happy. You can't go wrong in doing that.
The 1200 R sounds like the bike for you though, gear position indicator, and a different rear foot hanger :)

[GDCobra]

Sorry to hear you didn't get on with your bike. Your comment about the footrest interested me. I have recently been test riding a number of new bikes and I've been surprised by how bad the ergonomics 'down below' can be. I've had one where the rear brake lever almost wasn't reachable, another where the gear lever was too slippery for confident upshifts and another where the side stand is almost impossible to hook with a boot. It's almost as if the concentration on electronics and powerrrr on new bikes has been at the expense of the basics.

Thanks NewM, I guess it wouldn't be good for us all to be the same but I do think the Italians tend to take a "It'll do" approach to many products they manufacture and then cover up shortcomings as 'character'. Not saying other manufacturers don't also make mistakes but you don't tend to hear issues being reconciled as 'character' from other manufacturers.

I take your point on the power side of things, to be honest most bikes of 600cc upwards have plenty of power for my needs but unfortunately you only tend to get the nice gear on the larger engined higher power versions.

[GDCobra]

Sorry to hear you're moving on but go with what you makes you happy. You can't go wrong in doing that.
The 1200 R sounds like the bike for you though, gear position indicator, and a different rear foot hanger :)

Thanks J.P.
It looks like that 1200R is the bike Ducati should have made in the first place, seems a number of my issues have been addressed there (even the plain ugly rear plate hanger has changed) however I have to wonder if the engine/engine management characteristics have changed, this was the main issue for me.
I may give it a test but I'm afraid my view of Ducati has been coloured by this experience and worse still I may like it and then I'd have to deal with the local dealer and I'm afraid I just can't get on with the way they behave. Every dealing I've had with them I've been let down in some way. Next dealer is a long way off.

[AndyC_772]

I wasn't that keen on the 1200's engine mapping either. I did a little write-up shortly after it came out here (http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=49738); it only really seemed close to 'right' in Sport mode.

Even though the engine is very similar, the throttle mapping on the current Diavel seems much better. Sport mode on that bike is a bit sharp, but Touring is excellent.

[GDCobra]

I wasn't that keen on the 1200's engine mapping either. I did a little write-up shortly after it came out here (http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=49738); it only really seemed close to 'right' in Sport mode.

Even though the engine is very similar, the throttle mapping on the current Diavel seems much better. Sport mode on that bike is a bit sharp, but Touring is excellent.

Hi Andy
Just read that, think I also remember reading it around the time I bought mine, only problem is it sometimes doesn't matter what anybody says you just don't take it on board. The bit about the M1200 not being the bike you want to take out next day is so true, I got a new car the same day I got the Monster and always look forward to driving that however I rarely felt the same way about the bike, sometimes even finding excuses not to ride it. I must admit I've even avoided telling people I've got it, usually you want to tell the world but not with this one.

I'm sure the aircooled Monsters must be a different proposition, the way many owners talk about these I can't believe they can be similar.

I also found Sport mode the best to use even around town, although I didn't find the night and day differences between the modes referred to in the writup, maybe I'm just numb!

[J.P]

You're not saying anything that's a surprise to most owners of one bike or another at times.
Unfortunately the characteristics of the V-twin show us the constraint's of the engine fueling and that doesn't look like it's going to go away as the manufactuers try to meet Euro 3/4 emmission standards.
Even in the aftermarket it's got tricky as the newst generation of Monsters employ a Siemens manufacturers ECU, and they encrypt their chips now , so engine remapping (which I've had on 3 of my Ducati's), just isn't an option any more unfortunately.

Good luck with whatever you move onto.

[GDCobra]

You're not saying anything that's a surprise to most owners of one bike or another at times.
Unfortunately the characteristics of the V-twin show us the constraint's of the engine fueling and that doesn't look like it's going to go away as the manufactuers try to meet Euro 3/4 emmission standards.
Even in the aftermarket it's got tricky as the newst generation of Monsters employ a Siemens manufacturers ECU, and they encrypt their chips now , so engine remapping (which I've had on 3 of my Ducati's), just isn't an option any more unfortunately.

Good luck with whatever you move onto.

To be honest the 'V-Twin-ness' of the 1200 was a real let down, the torque was a bit of a let down in the lower part of the rev' (<3k) range and that coupled with the poor closed loop running (or at least that's what it felt like) made the bike annoying and soul destroying to ride at lower, constant speed. I sometimes felt like getting off and walking. To be honest I held on longer than I should, would have been better to part company straight away but it's not in my nature to give up, I saw sense in the end though. Bit annoyed that we've had the best late summer for years and I've not got a bike :thumbsdown:

Perhaps they should get VW to do their emissions tests, they're owned by AUDi aren't they?

[chris.p]

I know the horse has now bolted so to speak, I had a similar experience after buying my Monster 1100 Evo, but after a bit of modifying, I find the bike a joy to ride, even when pushed hard it handles fantasticly.

I agree about the newer engined and future bikes being strangled by legislation and hard to re map etc.

I find the ABS and the traction control to be helpful rather than an intrusion, so might be worth searching one out.

Not having a good dealer near you can be a pain, but please do not be put off by the bad experience from a dealer. Like a lot of owners, I have mine servied etc by an official Ducati service centre who does not sell bikes, (Cornerspeed) but just services etc, not close but always worth the extra mileage to get the bike to him.

[GDCobra]

I know the horse has now bolted so to speak, I had a similar experience after buying my Monster 1100 Evo, but after a bit of modifying, I find the bike a joy to ride, even when pushed hard it handles fantasticly.

I agree about the newer engined and future bikes being strangled by legislation and hard to re map etc.

I find the ABS and the traction control to be helpful rather than an intrusion, so might be worth searching one out.

Not having a good dealer near you can be a pain, but please do not be put off by the bad experience from a dealer. Like a lot of owners, I have mine servied etc by an official Ducati service centre who does not sell bikes, (Cornerspeed) but just services etc, not close but always worth the extra mileage to get the bike to him.

I agree about the ABS and traction control being helpful, I do specifically want this in a bike, I know my limitations, and I must admit that aspect of the M1200 was very good. Unfortunately most manufacturers are only fitting these systems (or at least the better versions of these systems) to their top end bikes which are invariably sports bikes and much as I like sports bikes my creaky back does not so really need an upright style, which are a bit thin on the ground.

In terms of modifying, I did consider this but after spending many thousands on a new bike I don't really like the idea of then spending many hundreds in the hope of getting something which is ride-able and as I couldn't be certain that there was a good bike in there trying to get out decided against this course of action.

[J.P]

All in all, I think it's fair to say you didn't get on with the bike and the 1200 was the wrong choice, especially if you thought riding a big capacity Ducati would be pleasurable at the bottom of the Rev range. That's why I bought an 821, after my EVO. I had the 1200 engine in my Multistrada and knew exactly what to expect. When that 1200 engine is in the 'zone' it's one of the most rewarding engines, but you have to have it up there.

So what's next for you then ?
A Triumph Speeed Triple ? BMW 1200 R ?

[GDCobra]

All in all, I think it's fair to say you didn't get on with the bike and the 1200 was the wrong choice, especially if you thought riding a big capacity Ducati would be pleasurable at the bottom of the Rev range. That's why I bought an 821, after my EVO. I had the 1200 engine in my Multistrada and knew exactly what to expect. When that 1200 engine is in the 'zone' it's one of the most rewarding engines, but you have to have it up there.

So what's next for you then ?
A Triumph Speeed Triple ? BMW 1200 R ?

I agree, I blame myself as I bought without test riding, I've had twins before although not 1200cc so thought this would just be the same but moreso, I remember thinking something to the effect of "buy in haste, repent at leisure" when I signed up but also thinking "it's a Ducati, how bad could it be?"

What's next? Well I'd like it to be a Triumph and the Speed is the bike that would fit the bill, BUT I feel that Triumph are getting left behind in the electronics department and as I've said I do like the gagets. Also looked at a Kawasaki Z1000 which was nice but suffers the same as the Triumph, a BMW is a strong possibility I think.

[J.P]

Well, you can now order a new 2016 Speed Triple that's been in the spy shots in final testing

[AndyC_772]

Also looked at a Kawasaki Z1000 which was nice but suffers the same as the Triumph, a BMW is a strong possibility I think.

I had a Z1000SX for three years and loved it. The only real downside was the noise, which just doesn't compare after you've had a V-twin to play on for a while. I'd have another in an instant, though I'd probably save a few quid and get the original model rather than the latest update. The new one adds riding modes, which are completely unnecessary on that bike.

The smaller, air cooled Monsters are a different proposition entirely compared to the M1200. I'll probably cop a load of flak for saying I don't necessarily get on all that well with my 695, but it's nothing to do with the engine, more the riding position. I've thought about swapping it for a bigger bike just for the change in ergonomics, but then again since I have the Diavel as well, another bike that's too similar seems pointless.

[GDCobra]

Well, you can now order a new 2016 Speed Triple that's been in the spy shots in final testing

Interesting. Do we know if the 2016 bike will have all the gadgetry on it?

[J.P]

Not sure about that at the moment. Go see your friendly Triumph Salesman and ask.

[EvoAde]

Interesting thread. I've got an 1100evo which is like a different bike after a 14 tooth front sprocket and Rexxer remap. Much more rideable around town - no lurching or surging that I got when testing a 1200 Monster whilst mine was in for a service. The Diavel I also tested ran much better than the 1200. You shouldn't have to do these mods to get a bike to run right though...

The noise and emissions regulations have a lot to answer for, however generally V twins are never as smooth as a 4 pot bike around town although my 14yr old Harley with a big Mikuni HSR carb runs better than most fuel injected bikes.

I think the new R1200R BMW might work for you from the reviews I've read - but you definitely need to test before buying!!

[GDCobra]

Not sure about that at the moment. Go see your friendly Triumph Salesman and ask.

I actually did ask about this at my local Triumph dealer recently and was told there was nothing in the foreseeable future regarding electrickery, Triumph seem a bit strange like this, I often hear stories of fantastic new bikes which never appear then different stuff appears which was not on anyone's radar.

[emzedder]

Interesting conversation particularly the Triumph comment, here is an article that many are not aware of ... the point about ABS is relevant and this will change face of model ranges ...
Euro 4 emissions limits

This is one of the changes that could sound the death knell for older bikes come the end of 2016, as Euro 4 rules are nearly twice as strict as the Euro 3 regulations that have been in place since 2006. The rules vary depending on performance, but for most full-size bikes carbon monoxide emissions, currently limited to 2.0g/km (grams per kilometre), drop to a maximum of 1.14g/km, while hydrocarbon limits drop from 0.3g/km to 0.17g/km and NOx falls from 0.15g/km to 0.09g/km. What’s more, the Euro 4 also introduces a durability test, so manufacturers need to prove that their engines can still meet the limits after 20,000km of use.

Yamaha's massive collector box negates the requirement for an oversized silencer

There’s also an ‘evaporative’ element of the emission test, which measures vapours that come from the evaporation of fuel over a period of time when the engine isn’t running. To pass, some bikes might need changes to their fuel caps, pipes or even completely new fuel tanks.

ABS

This is one most people have heard of; from 1/1/2016 all new-model bikes over 125cc will need ABS, while smaller bikes must have either ABS or a combined brake system. As with the rest of the rules, there’s a year of grace for carry-over models, but come the start of 2017 everything must be in-line with the regulations to be allowed to be sold.

OBD 1 (On Board Diagnostics)

The OBD 1 system is a standardised on-board diagnostic protocol that monitors any electronic element of the emissions control systems. This basically means that anyone with the right equipment – and it must be freely available, not just to authorised dealers – can plug computers into the system to check that things like the bike’s fuel injection is working properly. OBD 1 is still fairly rudimentary, though - from 2020, when Euro 5 emissions laws come into force, bikes will get the same sort of OBD II kit that’s already fitted to cars, which is far more advanced.

What does all that mean?

While there were plenty of scare stories back in 2012 about how ABS would ramp up the cost of bikes or that OBD would force people back to main dealers for every service, the reality is that the changes won’t have a massive impact on riders.

They will impact manufacturers though, since there are plenty of bikes that need significant changes to meet the new rules. That means investment in modifications to their designs, or withdrawing them from sale altogether and replacing them with something else.

A good example is Triumph’s Bonneville. Not designed with Euro 4 or ABS in mind, adopting both would mean a major reworking of the existing model, which in turn represents a huge investment. And with Euro 5 emissions rules due to come into force in 2020, there may not be time to recoup the cost of any short-term fixes.