Termis and an ecu?

[Birdy]

I've had my monster just about twelve months, and I love it, she's cost me a small fortune but she's worth it. I've finally got the bike I've always wanted. I was lucky enough to get the nod from my wife to get myself a pair of Termis, so I didn't hesitate, and stuck them on the plastic. She runs fine and if anything she does seem more powerful, not sure if it's the old thing of its louder so it must be faster, but I do think she's faster. Anyway I just wanted to ask for some advice about the ecu, do I need to change it or not? I've looked on eBay for a used one but can't find any listed for the m900ie.

[squarehead]

Birdy, there is one on eBay:

£746.31!! (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=171277179602&alt=web)

When I fitted a complete Arrow system, including removing the cat. and also fitting an open airbox lid, I was told by MotoRapido they could reflash the standard ECU. Apparently Ducati had released some sortware to enable modification without the need to purchase a DP unit.

I was told that my bike was running lean and long term this may affect the engine.

It also took them a long time, and cost £250! But now it does run nicely and the noise is just amazing. Worth it? Depends who you ask!

[Darren69]

I'd definitely consider doing it especially if you run an open filter box and k&n or plan too then it probably will be too lean. My local Ducati shop said he could put the correct DP map onto a standard ECU for £250 that would free up a bit more power and run better or he could fit a RexXer map.

http://www.rexxer.eu/e_rexxer.cfm

If you go for the DP map, depending on how it feels after that you may want to tweak the fuelling a bit with a PC111 to make it run smoother around 3000. (more cost) Might be ok with just the slip ons but a full system will probably need it. The problem with buying a s/hand DP ecu is you won't know if its been keyed to the imobiliser on another bike, you don't need to but I imagine some people would, in which case it would need to be virginised, local Ducati shop said he couldn't do that but knew someone who could and extra cost.

Might be worth looking at the RexXer as I think that can be custom mapped to whatever you want.

[Dirty]

Could it not be custom mapped by someone?

[pompone]

You don't need expensive so-called custom mapping as some parameters (definitely the ones altered by fitting a pair of slip ins and an open airbox) can be readily modified on the standard ECU.

[Dirty]

Isn't that what custom mapping is, altering the parameters on the ecu to suit the bike?

[Staggy]

If you are anywhere near Cheltenham try Mike Parry - Race Techniques

[squarehead]

You don't need expensive so-called custom mapping as some parameters (definitely the ones altered by fitting a pair of slip ins and an open airbox) can be readily modified on the standard ECU.

Isn't this what I paid Moto Rapido for, re-mapping my std. ECU?

[pompone]

Isn't this what I paid Moto Rapido for, re-mapping my std. ECU?

Not sure what they did, but altering parameters on standard ECU isn't the same as a remapping through reflash. Just saying that any Ducati mechanic worth their salt can make a standard ECU work on very mild tuning.

[Dirty]

Isn't reflashing where they wipe the chip and simply load another different set of stock parameters onto it whereas custom remapping is they go in to the chip and change the parameters that need altering according to any changes made to the engine/intake/exhaust?

[squarehead]

What's the difference between altering the parameters, re-mapping and a re-flash then?

[Funkatronic]

they are all different terms for the same thing,

usually a re-map implies a bespoke adjustment made with the bike on a rolling road.
Th bike is run across entire rpm range and adjustments made the air/fuel mixture (and ignition and others depending on the ECU and how good the tuner is). the bike an be tuned for to your performance too (e.g. mid range tourqq, peak power , fuel economy, etc)

a re-flash is usually performed by sending your ECU off to someone who overwrites or alters the coded map on yourecu with a different set of parameters from their library of maps

usually these library of maps will have been the maps originally created by the Ducati factory for the Ducat performance termignoni exhaust systems released for each bike and combination of exhaust (e.g. the were have been a different ECU for slip-ons and full system for many monsters)
As the technology to copy these ECU chips is widely available and free there are loads of random custom engine /exhaust/airbox combo maps made lurking around the internet

while these should be a lot better then OEM maps they are a bit of a one size fits none.
but there is no guarantee that the map for a full termi system will work well with the arrow, mivv or AKra system you just bought on ebay

as you ca see the terminology is a bit interchangeable so its always worth asking what they are actually going to do for you.

if you can afford it i would always get a custom map done for you bike. its worth the money for the improvement to throttle response alone imho

my s2r1000 was a real pig especially as town speeds as it had been setup to pass emissions. it ran very lean and had an 02 sensor that dynamically altered the fuelling in really unpleasant ways
holding constant throttle at lower rpm was almost impossible & rolling on mid corner would unsettle the bike horribly.
I had BSD in Peterborough remap solved all of this and make the bike a joy to ride

[squarehead]

This:
custom remapping is they go in to the chip and change the parameters that need altering according to any changes made to the engine/intake/exhaust

is what I had done at Moto Rapido. Bike goes like sh1t off a shovel, picks up very cleanly at all revs, and runs more smoothly. Even fuel consumption is good.

Some of the terminology up there got confusing but I think we have a concensus...!

[pompone]

they are all different terms for the same thing,

usually a re-map implies a bespoke adjustment made with the bike on a rolling road.
Th bike is run across entire rpm range and adjustments made the air/fuel mixture (and ignition and others depending on the ECU and how good the tuner is). the bike an be tuned for to your performance too (e.g. mid range tourqq, peak power , fuel economy, etc)

a re-flash is usually performed by sending your ECU off to someone who overwrites or alters the coded map on yourecu with a different set of parameters from their library of maps

usually these library of maps will have been the maps originally created by the Ducati factory for the Ducat performance termignoni exhaust systems released for each bike and combination of exhaust (e.g. the were have been a different ECU for slip-ons and full system for many monsters)
As the technology to copy these ECU chips is widely available and free there are loads of random custom engine /exhaust/airbox combo maps made lurking around the internet

while these should be a lot better then OEM maps they are a bit of a one size fits none.
but there is no guarantee that the map for a full termi system will work well with the arrow, mivv or AKra system you just bought on ebay

as you ca see the terminology is a bit interchangeable so its always worth asking what they are actually going to do for you.

if you can afford it i would always get a custom map done for you bike. its worth the money for the improvement to throttle response alone imho

my s2r1000 was a real pig especially as town speeds as it had been setup to pass emissions. it ran very lean and had an 02 sensor that dynamically altered the fuelling in really unpleasant ways
holding constant throttle at lower rpm was almost impossible & rolling on mid corner would unsettle the bike horribly.
I had BSD in Peterborough remap solved all of this and make the bike a joy to ride

Pretty much it, yes. When I say you can change parameters I mean you have some room for manoeuvre in the original ECU. Certainly enough for mild tuning. Of course this has to work within the constraint of a emission constrained map.

[Birdy]

Thanks for the advice chaps, I'm probably going to stick with the standard airbox set up, think I may try and find a dealer to have a chat with down here in Devon.

[gary tompkins]

Ducati Performance did make a re-mapped ECU for the 900ie. I had one on the bike I sold late 2013 set up for open airbox and Silmotor pipes. I paid £70 secondhand for mine. Not so easy to track down now but they sometimes come up for sale. May do the same on trike eventually if I can be arsed

Original ECU is on the right

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n327/ckris08/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMzEtMjAxMTAxMjktMDk1Mi5qcGc.jpg

[Darren69]

One on ebay, jeez, how much?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Genuine-Ducati-Performance-Monster-900-I-e-ECU-96504900B-Centralina-/171277179602

[Birdy]

One on ebay, jeez, how much?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Genuine-Ducati-Performance-Monster-900-I-e-ECU-96504900B-Centralina-/171277179602

Wow that's pricey!

[squarehead]

Which goes to show how pointless it is replying to threads :mand:

Took me ages to put that link in and no- one seems to have used it!

[Birdy]

Well I've finally found a brand new unused ECU, 96504900B, 200 quid from a supplier I've used many times before so I trust it is what he says, and just purchased a K and N from eBay, so air box open or standard?

[Darren69]

The DP kits came with an open lid and k&n style filter. It will work better with one of those. Forza Moto have some on ebay I believe but any K&N style mesh filter with cut open lid will work fine. It maybe too rich with the standard setup as its designed to work with the k&n type.

[Birdy]

Thanks Darren, I'll have a look on eBay see if I can find a modded lid, I don't really want to butcher mine.

[slob]

The DP lid (for the v1.5 bikes at least) was just a stock lid cut down

[Darren69]

Yep, but quite a neat job!

[Birdy]

Well, the ecu arrived today, fitting took all of ten minutes, I started her up and straight away the engine reacts to the fast idle lever again and she seems to tick over better, she seemed to struggle when I fitted the Termis, so the K and N should be here tomorrow, and I'm still searching for an open airbox lid, might even buy a new one if I can't find one. Anyway just wondered is it really that easy? Just plug in and off you go....