Hello from the North West

[GDCobra]

Just popping in to say "Hello all", I'm about to join the Monster clan in the next few weeks, just waiting to sort out a few things in my garage and then I'll take delivery.

Not sure how popular I'll be as I've gone for one of the new water cooled models which, looking through a few posts on here over the last few weeks, don't seem to have the same level of acceptability as the air cooled models. Mind you I'm also disappointed that it doesn't have a gear position indicator, which is a bit sad considering all the technology is in place to provide one, so I may be ostracized completely!

Hopefully you'll be gentle with me!

[Albie]

Just enjoy the bike for what it is. Even the plastic panel tanked ones got/get a hard time on the forum as do the watered ones.
Welcome along anyhow from an ex-monster owner.:D

[GDCobra]

Hi Albie

Thanks for the welcome, I'm committed now (or perhaps I should be) so I'll have to enjoy what I've got. I think I see things differently to other people anyway, I had a CB1000R a couple of years ago which many say are bland and boring but I found it very good, maybe I have low standards. Mind you a lot of people use the word 'character' instead of 'breaks down a lot' and that's the kind of character I'm prepared to live without!

[Dirty]

Hello and welcome GDCobra

You've certainly done your UKMOC research well :mand: Just don't take any of it too seriously. Join in with the banter and have a laugh. All Monsters are loved and welcome here, no matter how they are cooled and whichever gear you are in.

As long as you can write in something approximating the queens English and can take a joke without throwing a strop or your toys out of the pram you are about to join the best, friendliest and most fun web based bike forum in the world, enjoy :)

[Albie]

Hi Albie

Thanks for the welcome, I'm committed now (or perhaps I should be) so I'll have to enjoy what I've got. I think I see things differently to other people anyway, I had a CB1000R a couple of years ago which many say are bland and boring but I found it very good, maybe I have low standards. Mind you a lot of people use the word 'character' instead of 'breaks down a lot' and that's the kind of character I'm prepared to live without!

You go for it. It keeps Italian people in work building all the new bikes love em or hate them. I like them too and was close to getting an 821 just not wanting all that power now myself but not saying anything wrong with too much.
Characters good but soul is better. Look forward to the pics of it and me getting a monster back in my garage soon.

[GDCobra]

Hello and welcome GDCobra

You've certainly done your UKMOC research well :mand: Just don't take any of it too seriously. Join in with the banter and have a laugh. All Monsters are loved and welcome here, no matter how they are cooled and whichever gear you are in.

As long as you can write in something approximating the queens English and can take a joke without throwing a strop or your toys out of the pram you are about to join the best, friendliest and most fun web based bike forum in the world, enjoy :)

Thanks Dirty, I've been around a few forums long enough to learn that not everything comes over in the written word as it would when spoken and it's best to turn away when the trolls fire up.
Anyway I reckon in about 30 years or so everyone will accept water cooling although I do like the simplicity of air cooling. The last bike I sold was a Triumph Thruxton, can't believe I sold it and wish I hadn't now (a bit)

[GDCobra]

You go for it. It keeps Italian people in work building all the new bikes love em or hate them. I like them too and was close to getting an 821 just not wanting all that power now myself but not saying anything wrong with too much.
Characters good but soul is better. Look forward to the pics of it and me getting a monster back in my garage soon.

Well I went for the 1200 S but more for the high class suspension than the power, I'd have quite happily had an 821 if it had Ohlins.

[Albie]

Well I went for the 1200 S but more for the high class suspension than the power, I'd have quite happily had an 821 if it had Ohlins.

That's why I got the 1100s. It was the gold that drew me in. Rubbish at riding it though :o:o . New owner knows how to ride it though. :D

[Dirty]

Thanks Dirty, I've been around a few forums long enough to learn that not everything comes over in the written word as it would when spoken and it's best to turn away when the trolls fire up.
Anyway I reckon in about 30 years or so everyone will accept water cooling although I do like the simplicity of air cooling. The last bike I sold was a Triumph Thruxton, can't believe I sold it and wish I hadn't now (a bit)

Pretty much everything I write is tongue in cheek and said in jest and most people get that.

Water cooling has been on Monsters for ages, since the S4. Some like it, some don't, some don't care either way. Whatever you get, however it's cooled, what features it has/hasn't there will be something to have a joke about. Unless it's a yellow M600 of course because that is clearly the best, coolest, fastest and most perfect Monster of the lot :yoparty:

[garry]

good man, you know it makes sense..

catch up with yer soon fer a brew if only at the barn :)

[GDCobra]

That's why I got the 1100s. It was the gold that drew me in. Rubbish at riding it though :o:o . New owner knows how to ride it though. :D

Well I put an Ohlins shock on my current bike (Yammy R1) and very impressed with it, I don't profess to be any better than rubbish riding either but I enjoy it more like that.

[GDCobra]

good man, you know it makes sense..

catch up with yer soon fer a brew if only at the barn :)

Hi Garry, may be up at the barn sometime although I must admit I don't get up there much on the bike, it's a bit too local to me for a ride out. I get up to Devil's bridge more often although I must admit I tend to do it when everyone else doesn't, evenings and early mornings are my times, I figure there's less to hit or be hit by at those times and less rozzers too. Hoping to pick it up before Easter and maybe get around a bit that weekend.

[garry]

actually, we normally tend to do the barn on our way home, normally after the brew wagons shut ......:(

[Albie]

Well I put an Ohlins shock on my current bike (Yammy R1) and very impressed with it, I don't profess to be any better than rubbish riding either but I enjoy it more like that.

I must profess that I am now trying to learn to ride again to hopefully enjoy it all over again and will try and improve myself before the bike. Maybe I just plonked my backside on too fast bikes.
Will be going past Preston in June up to Heysham to go to the IOM TT. Do you ever go over seeing its so close.

[coastal59]

Welcome cobra , I am still getting used to the m1200 and started farkling now! Hope to getsome good trips this year over to northwest 200 and down to Italy.

[GDCobra]

I must profess that I am now trying to learn to ride again to hopefully enjoy it all over again and will try and improve myself before the bike. Maybe I just plonked my backside on too fast bikes.
Will be going past Preston in June up to Heysham to go to the IOM TT. Do you ever go over seeing its so close.

I keep promising to go to the TT but one of those things I've just not got around to it, won't be this year, maybe next.
After crashing an FZR1000 Exup a few years ago I decided to go back to basics, wanted a bike I could ride rather than be ridden by, great little bike and I did get better but also learned that I'm never going to be fantastic.
A man's got to know his limitations.

[GDCobra]

Welcome cobra , I am still getting used to the m1200 and started farkling now! Hope to getsome good trips this year over to northwest 200 and down to Italy.

Sounds like good fun, I insisted I was going to keep the bike stock but already looking at how I can mod'.

[LouSCannon]

Welcome chap, nice choice and don't let the whole water cooled v air cooled fool you, we all love each other really (I run both) :)

I've had my 1200s for coming up to a year now, still not totally convinced myself, this year will be telling as last year got a bit derailed due to moving back to the NW. Might see you around soon?

[alan s4]

Don't mention GPI's!!!!

Does anyone remember the proper spat we had on here from about a year ago with the bloke who was considering a new KTM or M1200??!!

[GDCobra]

Welcome chap, nice choice and don't let the whole water cooled v air cooled fool you, we all love each other really (I run both) :)

I've had my 1200s for coming up to a year now, still not totally convinced myself, this year will be telling as last year got a bit derailed due to moving back to the NW. Might see you around soon?

I't was a bit of a strange choice really, I'd been looking at a few other similar styled bikes, I've never really thought of Ducati due to a feeling that they are a bit over-priced and over complex (which may be more reputation than truth) but I saw a 696 Monster in a local dealer which started me thinking then I went into the local Ducati dealer really to check out the 821 and the 1200s was there, the right bike at the right money. Unfortunately I wasn't able to test it due to weather conditions but it would have to be pretty bad for me not to like. If it's not to my taste I'll keep for a while and then sell it, I think you need to have at least one Ducati in your motorcycle career!

I tested an S1000R last year but the fuelling was so bad on it that I was really put off, I'm sure it was a problem with that bike but I just apart from that it doesn't have the looks of the Monster, likewise the Triumph speed triple. I look forward to seeing you around.

[GDCobra]

Don't mention GPI's!!!!



I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!

[Dirty]

I't was a bit of a strange choice really, I'd been looking at a few other similar styled bikes, I've never really thought of Ducati due to a feeling that they are a bit over-priced and over complex (which may be more reputation than truth).

Overpriced certainly. I think the air cooleds are fairly uncomplicated beasts

I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!

It's all forgotten now and lets hear no more about it. So that's 2 egg mayonaisse, a prawn quick shift and a tail chop! :cool:

[GDCobra]

So that's 2 egg mayonaisse, a prawn quick shift and a tail chop! :cool:

:chuckle::chuckle:

[GDCobra]

Not long to go now, picking it up on Thursday just in time for Easter weekend. Got a new car coming Wednesday so busy week.

[buzzbomb]

Is the dealer DMC Moto and if so did you attend the open day last Sunday.

[GDCobra]

Is the dealer DMC Moto and if so did you attend the open day last Sunday.

It is but unfortunately I didn't have time to get down there last weekend, did you attend??

[buzzbomb]

It is but unfortunately I didn't have time to get down there last weekend, did you attend??

Yes I attended and sad to say you missed out on a really great day, hopefully will catch up with you there.

[utopia]

Welcome along.
You seem to have a pretty decent handle on most of the issues.
A sensible person (no offence :chuckle:) such as yourself is bound to like a monster, I reckon.

[Darren69]

hi and welcome, yes there is certainly a fair bit of banter on here re air vs water cooled as I think air cooled are in the majority as the LC bikes were certainly not as popular on here or produced for as long, but its all good natured and but in my opinion the LC bikes are actually more in keeping with Galluzzi's original Monster prototype vision being based on the liquid cooled 851/888 variant. That statement alone may cause some discussion but the 1200 certainly scored well in the Ride long term review and would seem to represent extremely good value considering the resale value of bikes of that ilk and Ducatis in general. Bargain 1199 Panigale anyone?

[GDCobra]

Yes I attended and sad to say you missed out on a really great day, hopefully will catch up with you there.

I think they've got something else going on Easter weekend
, I may get to that, on the other hand I may be out enjoying the bike.

[GDCobra]

.... Bargain 1199 Panigale anyone?

I'd have preferred a Panigale but just struggle with sportsbikes these days, they've offered me a test ride on one which I'm intending to take them up on, hope I don't like it or I may 'need' one of those as well!

[Dirty]

I'd have preferred a Panigale but just struggle with sportsbikes these days, they've offered me a test ride on one which I'm intending to take them up on, hope I don't like it or I may 'need' one of those as well!

I need a Panigale. Will have to get back to work first though!

[GDCobra]

Well I picked up the Monster on Friday but I must admit that I'm currently not exactly blown away by it.

I know it's early days but I'm just not 'feeling the love' right now. Due to weather and other issues today is the first chance I've had to ride it only to find that it is afflicted by very poor constant speed running it, jerking about beneath me, it is just not a satisfying place to be, I know I'm opening myself up to a tirade of abuse from those who think this is more my fault than the bike's but I'm just telling like it is. I can see I'm now going to end up spending more money getting this bike to behave how I want it to and/or other only keep it for a short time.

Oh well, you live and learn I guess.

[GDCobra]

Well I've been out a few more times over the past few days and it's growing on me a bit more (well a lot more really) the bike has so many other positive points which are getting my focus now, handling, braking, power delivery and so on however I still think I'm going to have to address the steady speed fuelling (which I suspect the problem is) hopefully it is possible to remove the O2 sensors and trick out the ECU to accept them not being there but at least now I want to.

[steeevvvooo]

many monsters (and some other bikes) have poor fuelling from the factory. You can go the standard route of powercommander and set up, or what a lot of us have done on older monsters is get someone like BSD to reprogram your ECU. From memory it was under £500 and for that you get a custom map (it is much more specific to your bike than a powercommander is apparently). It transformed my old S2R1000, gave it more power.

not sure if they have "cracked" the 1200 yet? Also I believe CJS offer a similar service and there may be others closer to you.

[J.P]

Fueling can be a problem with that immense engine, it certainly was in the first generation when they stuck it in my Mutistrada 1200. Trying to please all the people (European law) and riders is a nightmare. Hence I went for an 821.

Spend £500 getting it remapped at BSD (if they do it yet, they don't on the 821), or the like. Forget power commander. The remap will turn off the 02 sensors anyway.

Plus you've got a fantastic engine, that really hates low speed, might be worth looking at changing the front sprocket down one tooth, very common change to the monsters.

Let us know how you get on and we can offer help if needed. I've had 4 Ducati's remapped so can testify to the difference it makes.

[GDCobra]

Thanks for the replies guys. I agree with what you say, this is a situation which is partly due to emission controls and partly due to the corners which motorcycle companies cut in order to meet them.

To get the emission in spec' the ECU is programmed to run the engine lean during certain conditions, manufacturers achieve this (and I'm making assumptions about Ducati here as I don't know too much about them yet) by using a narrowband O2 sensor, presumably to cut costs, this can only work at one specific AFR (14.7:1) hence the reason for only using closed loop under lean and constant throttle conditions, due to the nature of the narrowband output the ECU has to use an iterative "blind man with a white stick" routine to get the correct AFR which is what gives the surging felt in the power delivery. What makes this worse is that when the power surges in the rider will subconsciously wind off some throttle and the reverse when power surges out, then the "hunting" cycle will start again.
Over the last few rides I've been concentrating on holding the throttle constant during this type of riding and I think this is one reason why it has got better.

On previous bikes I've had it was possible to run an "Adaption cycle" this is a cycle which allows the system to calibrate itself so that it should get the correct (or very close to) value immediately it wants to run at 14.7 and so the 'hunting' cycle is reduced (until you alter the hardware), I don't know with Ducati's system but obviously this is the first/cheapest thing to correct.

The other thing I was able to do was disconnect the O2 sensors and modify the ECU program to not issue a CEL due to them being missing, the other way is to replace them with a resistor. When this is done the system 'sees' the correct fueling value as soon as it goes into closed loop so again the surging is reduced/removed although you are still running lean so the engine feels a little flat.
From some things I've read it seems this is not quite so simple on the Ducati (although that information was related to a Multistrada which may not use the same system, I don't know)

Obviously the best solution is to re-map but after already spending a 5 figure sum on this bike I don't really want so spend more money getting a standard bike to run right. If I decide to change the pipe (and the jury's out on that at the moment) then this would make more sense.
I'm going to run it for a few more miles and see if we learn to live with each other during the run-in period.

I did see a post on here some time ago where someone mentioned the same problem during a test ride and one (fairly unhelpful) reply was "Why don't you go and buy a S1000R then?" well the only answer I can give to that is "NOOOOOO", I test rode one of these last year and the fueling was so bad I ended up dropping the thing while trying to make a RH turn into a junction, engine stalled just as I tipped in. I've heard of other people having problems and the response from BMW seems to be "You're just not riding it right", while we accept that kind of garbage we will get unacceptable bikes IMO.