having a dig at this

[garry]

on saturday, honestly cant see it ending well to be honest..

and btw, is this the future of motorcycling ??? i ****in hope not..

http://www.dirtbikerider.com/news/latest-news-s1/New-all-electric-off-road-riding-centre-to-open-this-weekend-i7576

[Dirty]

They claim 'no noise and emissions' as though it's something to be proud about! :eek:

[Nickj]

Not the same without the ring-a-ding of tortured 2 strokes

[Rascall]

its like alcohol free beer - whats the point

Russell

[garry]

because believe it or not gentlemen, the way legislation is affecting more and more rural areas , this bag o dog **** will be your only option for any kind of racing, hopefully not in my lifetime..

[Dirty]

Nor mine, which is scarily likely now :)

I have to admit though I've seen the new Tesla steam off from a few traffic light GPs and it goes like the Starship Enterprise with a firework up it's jacksy. Seriously impressive acceleration. But no character! :mand:

[garry]

But no character!
__________________


exactly.... i,ll take me ears and put some bangin tunes on....

[Zimbo]

Well, I'm going to buck the trend, I like it. Not for everyone of course, and I wouldn't like to see it take over from petrol engines, but the day may come when rural motorsports like this are threatened by noise laws (many established circuits already are) and you may be in the position one day of having an option of electric or none at all. By starting now, the technology (especially battery technology) will rapidly improve and come down in price. It will eventually filter into cheap to run commuter type bikes etc, which will be a very viable transport alternative to get to work for many. It does also look like quite a bit of fun!
I also quite like the extra race management element of electric, where you need to conserve battery state during the race as well as fighting for position, it's a great additional challenge. Use up all your battery in the first couple of laps by riding too hard and find yourself overtaken at the end due to no battery left. I like the strategy element of it!

[FLATTOP]

Reading that news how ridiculous things have become I remember the days when I used to deliberately follow a Bike if it was extra noisy a fine example was the old GT750 with a 3 into one it used to sound like a cat being tortured with a soldering iron extreme.

Bring back coal :D

[Dirty]

I don't buy the 'battery technology will improve' argument. Batterys and electric motors were around before fossil fuel engines. They've pretty much hit the top of the development curve as they are governed by laws of physics that are fairly inflexible. When you can recharge one as quickly as you can refill a fuel tank I'll be impressed.

In addiction they are made of stuff that is highly wasteful to extract from the earth and has to be shipped around the world and processed leaving toxic footprints everywhere.

[Mr Gazza]

Am I so old that I see history repeating itself?

I got into model aeroplanes a few years back, just when electric flight was starting to get interesting.
You had to build light for the meagre power that the little "speed 400" can motors produced with the heavy Nickel Cadmium cells.
Brushless motors came along, with much better power to wieght ratios, next came Lithium Polymer cells, much lighter and far more power.
Progress has been constant and rapid to the extent that model Turbine and electric power have met and are directly interchangable in some models and both have overtaken piston engines many times over.

The white heat of technology makes electic power very interesting indeed at the moment and quite exiting....Don't fear it just because you don't understand it...It's not going to replace the IC engine just yet, but there are some suprises coming..:D

[Zimbo]

I'm with Mr Gazza, I also have played about with electric remote control aircraft and have been genuinely astonished at just how much power and endurance I can get from a small, light lithium polymer battery costing just a few pounds - I can get 20 - 30 minutes of flight time from a single charge. Batteries have come a long, long way in a few years.
I also like the torque characteristics of the electric motor, there is no torque curve, maximum torque is available instantly at any RPM. Just have a look at the Tesla cars currently, a large and heavy luxury saloon that does 0 - 60 in 5 seconds and has a battery range of 230 miles, recharges to 80% of capacity in 30 minutes, it costs about the same as the equivelent diesel powered car to buy. You would need a 4 litre V8 petrol engine to match the performance.

[Dirty]

I don't fear it, and I understand it well enough. I'm just not impressed by it. The aircraft weigh as much as a knats bollock. Those things used to fly using elastic bands. I'll be impressed when they fly me away on holiday in an electric aircraft. In fact if that ever happens you can have my motorbike :)

Yes the Tesla S is impressive. I love it. The off the lights acceleration is astounding in the quick one. It is also very expensive £50k for the basic model with no options (which incidentally is not the quick one, 0-60 of 5.9secs is fairly average) Nor is the basic model 'supercharger enabled' (superchargers claim half a full charge (120 miles) in 20 mins) so will have to be charged in standard mode, oh and there are only about 15 supercharger points in the Uk at the moment. If you buy the £1200 dual charger option you get approx 70 miles per hour of charge. You wouldn't want to drive to Scotland in one! They are a faddy town car at the moment and the future doesn't appear to be getting any better. Of course the eco catastrophe caused by the processes needed to make the batteries (and recycle them after their short, expensive life) hasn't been and probably won't be addressed.

[Darren69]

I don't fear it, and I understand it well enough. I'm just not impressed by it. The aircraft weigh as much as a knats bollock. Those things used to fly using elastic bands. I'll be impressed when they fly me away on holiday in an electric aircraft. In fact if that ever happens you can have my motorbike :)

Yes the Tesla S is impressive. I love it. The off the lights acceleration is astounding in the quick one. It is also very expensive £50k for the basic model with no options (which incidentally is not the quick one, 0-60 of 5.9secs is fairly average) Nor is the basic model 'supercharger enabled' (superchargers claim half a full charge (120 miles) in 20 mins) so will have to be charged in standard mode, oh and there are only about 15 supercharger points in the Uk at the moment. If you buy the £1200 dual charger option you get approx 70 miles per hour of charge. You wouldn't want to drive to Scotland in one! They are a faddy town car at the moment and the future doesn't appear to be getting any better. Of course the eco catastrophe caused by the processes needed to make the batteries (and recycle them after their short, expensive life) hasn't been and probably won't be addressed.

Yea, and we still use fossil fuels to provide most of the electricity required to charge them in the first place!

[Zimbo]

It is certainly true that electric isn't emmision free when you look at it's whole life cycle, the emissions are very front end loaded on the manufacturing process and it only catches up to petrol cars after in excess of 100,000 miles of use.
Agreed re the Tesla S, great in town and on shorter journeys, not ideal for motorway bashing all day. I compare them to a Jaguar XF-S in terms of looks, size, features, performance and comfort, and the XF-S isn't much less than £50K to buy, but I know which one I'd prefer to do a long european tour in ...

[Mr Gazza]

Yep....I'm getting definate echos from what I heard said of the new electric stuff hitting the model scene...

...The motors are expensive, you need a special speed controller, the batteries take ages to charge and you need a special charger. The batteries can explode and they cost a fortune..

Now the stuff is all cheap and reliable and performs better with each passing development.

Since I am drawing parallels with model planes, electric has not replaced IC even if it has become more popular with the advent of better performance. It's just another aspect and choice within the hobby, with different challenges and appeals.

Getting back to going on holiday in an electric plane, Dirty. I believe that unmanned electric aircraft have already circumnavigated the globe (or nearly anyway). Electric UAV's carry payloads equivilent to a taxi driver on trans continental flights....I'm not saying it's going to be comfy but it is technically possible.

The argument that fails being pro electric is the green one. There is no way that electric power is the saviour of the enviroment that is claimed...There's no free lunch...The smoke still goes somewhere..

Now if I bought a second hand electric Monster, and charged it all week from a wind generator for the weekend's ride..??..:rolleyes:....Nah!

[Dirty]

My point is that although electric flight is now possible, both in model planes and in larger, drone like vehicles, it's nigh on bloody useless and I'm unlikely to be stepping on an electric plane for my summer hols any time soon, in fact in any of our life times. Hence my offer to give my bike away if I'm wrong. You may say you heard all the same arguments at the beginning of electric models but that doesn't make them wrong. Electric flight was not the future, it hasn't and never will take over and in so many measurable ways is still inferior to IC. It got better yes, but it's still not as good in the areas of importance, just different in other areas.

The electric car is the same. Bloody useless. A fad. An interesting toy. An adjunct to proper cars but never a replacement (in current form, hydrogen or other instantly refuelable methods aside)

[garry]

putting all that aside......... its gonna be bloody freezin tomorra.....

batteries - freezing temps........... not lookin good is it..

i,ll keep yer posted