Well this will royally feck up future tunnel runs!

[Dirty]

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/pre-2007-motorcycles-face-1250-london-toll/25942.html

[Albie]

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/pre-2007-motorcycles-face-1250-london-toll/25942.html

It's about time they reduced vehicle tax in that case for euro 3 bikes then . They won't do that either will they. It's all shi te really

[jonzi]

We might get one or two more in

...The proposed introduction date is September 2020, by which time affected machines will be 13 years old...

[Black Bob]

Time to leave the numberplates at home then. Tossers.

[Saint aka ML]

When time comes I will start a business of registering all your bikes in Poland..... No more speeding fines, toll's, technically no more parking fines as well.

When they clamp down on that we shell move to Russian plates and total immunity :D

[Darren69]

The same charge for cars, vans and bikes? That's not fair on the smaller bikes and scooters.

[slob]

I don't mind paying £12.50 to do a tunnel run, although presumably it'll be free outside peak hours anyway. Paying an additional £3,250.00 a year to commute by the best possible method, I have a but more of a problem with. I assume they'll have to invest in all new cameras facing the other way to use the existing systems to enforce this for motorcycles, which will cost a fortune. Given the *relatively* low number of two wheelers coming in and out of the city they'll barely break even. This will either boost sales of cheap Chinese scooters or force the commuting public back into their cars, maybe both.

[Dirty]

Very good point regarding putting people back in cars if the cost is the same.

The proposal for the ULEZ is 24 hr though so no peak/off peak charges!

[Saint aka ML]

Best thing is most scooters I see on my commute are below 2007 well below so frankly Slob might be right people will think well it costs basically same as car and still cheaper then tube I will go back in a car.

Wonder what would happen if you were to change exhaust to new-er Euro3 certified and then tell them will not pay, wait for court summons and prove your vehicle is legit still being below 2007.

[Wildfire]

Well that will also royally f**k up commuting to work for a fair few people.

[Saint aka ML]

It will be again cheaper to be on benefit and out of work :D

[Mr Gazza]

Would there be some sort of discount for a classic owner who actually lives in the ULEZ?

Poor sods would have to pay just to ride out of thier back door.!!

[Dirty]

All I saw was some possible delaying of the charge for a few years for those within the zone!

[Grumpy]

We might get one or two more in
Is that an offer to plan the next one!:spin:
We had better get planning then for next year!....mmmmm how many can we fit in!

The same charge for cars, vans and bikes? That's not fair on the smaller bikes and scooters.

Nothing new there then!! Yet again riding a bike has a penalty against it.

[popelli]

who is the plonker who though of this stupid idea?

[Dirty]

who is the plonker who though of this stupid idea?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5EaGSez4lbs/UA3d-eBuwFI/AAAAAAAAAv4/ssy4T4wfyxk/s1600/Boris+buffoon.jpg

[Flip]

Maybe there should be another massive Hyde Park demonstration á la the 1988 Anti Leg Protectors one which was organised after Twatter Bottomley, who was Minister of Transport at the time proposed they should be fitted to all motorcycles.

Anyone here remember that/went along?

I remember there was about twenty of us who rode up from the South coast on a baking hot day to find 25,000 bikes all descending on the Park- Fantastic!!

[MrsC_772]

Never mind complaining on here about the proposals - respond to the TfL consultation https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/ultra-low-emission-zone/ I did. In particular the argument that it is crazy to charge a bike the same as a car, when bikes are part of the congestion solution not part of the problem, needs to be made.

[simon_g]

There are defined legal levels for particulates and NO2 that parts of central London are getting very close to exceeding. It's that or go down the Parisian route of banning odd or even numbered vehicles on days where pollution exceeds those levels. It's not about congestion at all.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/an-odd-day-in-paris-french-capital-bans-evennumbered-vehicles-for-one-day-to-reduce-air-pollution-9197950.html

It is "just" a consultation so will inevitably end up in a less extreme, more palatable form. It does seem a little harsh on motorcycles though, given that almost all are petrol (so do way better on particulates) and are projected to produce less than 1% of NO2 and have the least amount of change in NO2 produced once implemented according to the charts here: https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/ultra-low-emission-zone

[FLATTOP]

The last Tunnel run cost me more than £12.50 :rolleyes:

[Mand]

Tunnel run? Oh dear get a fecking life and get out of that **** hole

[Dirty]

Get a fecking life and live in Crewe? :chuckle:

[Mand]

Ahh yes crewe, nowt wrong with Crewe, on the doorstep of arguably the best roads in the British isles, North Wales.....

What I am saying is ride away from London, you too are near to lovely roads, enjoy the outdoors and don't get a lung full of smog :) perhaps boris is saving you :biggrin:

[Dirty]

Crewe sounds great - From wiki Crewe is perhaps best known as a large railway junction Sounds very similar to Willesden :)

Quite a lot of London is outdoors and we have some great roads too.

[Mand]

Brilliant, then don't worry about the tunnels. Ride your beautiful monster outdoors, it deserves to be seen and heard.

[Dirty]

Come on a tunnel run then you might understand! I can't think of a better place where more people will see and hear a Monster than an evening tunnel run in summer in one of the greatest most iconic cities in the world!

[Saint aka ML]

The last Tunnel run cost me more than £12.50 :rolleyes:

Well then you have a new target to beat for next one ;)

[Mand]

Come on a tunnel run then you might understand! I can't think of a better place where more people will see and hear a Monster than an evening tunnel run in summer in one of the greatest most iconic cities in the world!

I've ridden my monster though plenty of tunnels, but thank you for your kind offer but I'll decline. Maybe I was a little harsh in my first post, I'm not a fan of London, or any other cities to ride in, I've done my fair share of commuting on a motorcycle and it's quite stress inducing in my opinion. I know everybody rides their monster for different reasons but mine is that feeling of freedom, beautiful countryside and not filtering around hybrid cars and myopic car drivers.

Ps my monster sounds ace, I mean it really does without a tunnel :mand::mand:

[Dirty]

I'm sure it sounds lovely. I'm equally sure it sounds better in a tunnel. Then try listening to 20+ monsters in a tunnel, buzzing through warm city streets, past busy cafes and pubs. If it doesn't make you grin like a maniac then you have no soul.

As you say each to their own. I'm not a fan of riding around the green/brown bits between citys myself.
I love the feeling of freedom along with the gladiatorial aspect of mixing it on city streets with tons of metal of various shapes and ilks trying to kill you, and surviving! Not for everyone of course. I understand that

[utopia]

I'm all in favour of the principle that the polluter should pay.
However, my motorcycle makes the same pollution in rural Leicestershire as it does in central London, so who is really responsible here ?
Seems to me its the Londoners' own fault for living so close together, and its they not me who should pay.
Ok, the above may be slightly dodgy logic, but its no worse than some of the half-cocked new ideas (like this one) that get bandied about.
I've been a committed environmentalist since the late 1970s, but some of the schemes put forward on the green ticket are totally bizarre, often unfair, frequently ineffective and usually only serve to preserve the status quo in its headlong rush to consume more and more resources and cause yet more pollution, while wearing a trendy eco badge.

My motorcycle will nip quickly through congested urban traffic, so that its actual contribution to pollution per mile travelled is minimal.
Your average eco car will sit stationary, engine running, in congested traffic, such that its measured/quoted figures for pollution per mile are massively exceeded.

Come on, policy setters, lets have a little more than schoolboy reasoning applied to this important issue, FFS.
And a little fairness would go down well too.

[popelli]

the entire issue about green taxes is not saving the planet, its about socially acceptable ways to tax people more

given that windows allow heat to escape from houses maybe they could introduce aka a window tax

or given the numbers of people attracted to London maybe a tax on the number of people living in a house causing green house emissions would make sense aka a poll tax

both of the above of course would need to be clearly labled as a green, congestion or environmental tax and they would suddenly be socially acceptable

Everybody thinks the govt is stupid but they have learnt that as soon as a tax is for the environment regardless of what its really there for (usually taxing the public to get money) its socially acceptable and the chattering classes happily accept the tax as doing their bit for the environment

therein lies the problem, until people wise up to all these taxes regardless of what they are labled as, being taxes to raise revenue green taxes will continue to be imposed

[Flip]

What we need is a revolution!!!!!........

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag329/fluke900/Wolfie_zpsb55250e7.png (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/fluke900/media/Wolfie_zpsb55250e7.png.html)

.......And all the other London boroughs of course!!!

[Dirty]

the entire issue about green taxes is not saving the planet, its about socially acceptable ways to tax people more



Yep, what Popelli said.

In this instance it's not even about saving the planet, it's about air quality for Londoners. Many years ago we (government) signed up to a clean air agreement with the EU and since then have failed to meet the targets, which have become more and more stringent every year, and the fines get bigger and bigger.
So this isn't about reducing net pollution. It is about discouraging the polluting vehicles from coming into the centre. Encouraging them to pollute elsewhere. Of course a sideways benefit will be to encourage owners of said vehicles to upgrade to lesser polluting ones.
Of course eventually we'll all be electric and the citys will have nice clean air as all the pollution will be happening at the power stations in the countryside :)

[Black Bob]

If they were serious about tackling pollution they wouldn't tax the vehicles that pollute, they'd ban them outright. It's just another way of fleecing money from us and I'm not having any of it. My 2004 bike will create pollution whether I pay the 12.50 or not, so I might as well not. The charge is totally unjustified and might even be illegal.

[Saint aka ML]

Yep, what Popelli said.

In this instance it's not even about saving the planet, it's about air quality for Londoners. Many years ago we (government) signed up to a clean air agreement with the EU and since then have failed to meet the targets, which have become more and more stringent every year, and the fines get bigger and bigger.
So this isn't about reducing net pollution. It is about discouraging the polluting vehicles from coming into the centre. Encouraging them to pollute elsewhere. Of course a sideways benefit will be to encourage owners of said vehicles to upgrade to lesser polluting ones.
Of course eventually we'll all be electric and the citys will have nice clean air as all the pollution will be happening at the power stations in the countryside :)

The last bit I like the most. :D

It is as expected. They sign up and see neh not worth the money to change now, few years down the line no fines are still cheaper, few years more neh still cheaper but lets start scaring the public. Come now fines are more expensive so lets tax polluting cars so that we collect money and pay the fine again as pollution will not lower by much.

TFL busses excluded, TFL trains excluded, black cabs excluded, TFL other vehicles and local council vehicles excluded. They are ok to pollute and they are the biggest polluters by far. 10y old busses FFS.

[Mand]

I'm sure it sounds lovely. I'm equally sure it sounds better in a tunnel. Then try listening to 20+ monsters in a tunnel, buzzing through warm city streets, past busy cafes and pubs. If it doesn't make you grin like a maniac then you have no soul.

As you say each to their own. I'm not a fan of riding around the green/brown bits between citys myself.
I love the feeling of freedom along with the gladiatorial aspect of mixing it on city streets with tons of metal of various shapes and ilks trying to kill you, and surviving! Not for everyone of course. I understand that

I can live without "soul" :mand: but if you like the gladiatorial aspect, ride the TT course on the Isle of Man, if that doesn't stir the emotion, nothing will, but it may be a little too green and brown for your liking.

It's another way of thrashing the pocket of the motorist, I think there are bigger issues that the government need to deal with.

[Dirty]

TFL busses excluded, TFL trains excluded, black cabs excluded, TFL other vehicles and local council vehicles excluded. They are ok to pollute and they are the biggest polluters by far. 10y old busses FFS.

Black cabs are not excluded. They will be imposing a 10 year age limit on most of them. All new cabs from 2020 must be zero emission capable (whatever that means) and will have a 15 year age limit (which begs the question, if zec why the age limit)


ride the TT course on the Isle of Man, if that doesn't stir the emotion, nothing will, but it may be a little too green and brown for your liking.


Yep far too green and brown for me and not something I aspire to try myself. I like watching from my sofa.

It's horses for courses though. I have a friend who for the past few years has raced in the 848 challenge. It's on the BSB card and he won it one year so no slouch on a bike but hates riding on the road (he lives in the green/brown bits, doesn't own a road bike even) and thinks I'm crazy for playing with the buses in London. I of course think he's crazy for taking to the track. It's the differences in life that make things interesting. Issues arise when people assume their preferences are superior. ;)

[Dirty]

Just to show how messed up TFLs maths are:

There are 25000 black cabs in London causing 18% of pollution
There are 75000 minicabs causing 4% of pollution!?!?!?!?!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3mA1AFIEAA_nCx.jpg

[jerry]

I can get some Thai number plates ,, that will really confuse them ,

[Grumpy]

I can get some Thai number plates ,, that will really confuse them ,

The revolution has started ! :spin:

[utopia]

The revolution has started ! :spin:

I had my own personal revolution in about 1971.
My world is now a completely different place.
But sshh....don't tell the straights.

And I too have race only termis (currently on std headers) with no baffles.
No probs at all at mot time.
Though, tbh I would ideally prefer them to be just a teensy bit quieter.
They're mostly fine but I do get tiny pangs of conscience when going through sleepy villages at unsociable hours.

[Mr Gazza]

So..........! Utopia came out in 1971....:gay:..And is the first one to bring up the subject of noise pollution too..

Last time I was in London, (about the time of the royal wedding...Charles and Di that is..)
It was the squealing brakes of all the London Cabs that kept me awake.

[utopia]

Just for the record.......I wasn't talking about that kind of "straights".......(as I'm sure you knew anyway). :)
I guess you could say that I am "gay", but only in the original sense of the word, ie happy and carefree.
But each to their own.

[Mr Gazza]

[QUOTE=utopia;498762]
I guess you could say that I am "gay"

Oops I didn't have a clue...That's not what I meant either..:scratch:

....And Termis should be taxed unless they are fully floating.

[slob]

ULEZ might be the least of your problems
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30300916

[Dirty]

ULEZ might be the least of your problems
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30300916

They are banning all my fun today! :biggrin:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/a-long-list-of-sex-acts-just-got-banned-in-uk-porn-9897174.html

Stupid and unenforceable, both of them

[Yorkie]

You will all have to enjoy the new 2 mile stretch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30269231?SThisFB

Stonehenge.

Yorkie

[Grumpy]

They are banning all my fun today! :biggrin:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/a-long-list-of-sex-acts-just-got-banned-in-uk-porn-9897174.html



Any one in particular!! :biggrin:

[Dirty]

Any one in particular!! :biggrin:

Don't worry I can still sit on your face, I'm just not allowed to film it and sell it for profit :D

[Nickj]

They are banning all my fun today! :biggrin:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/a-long-list-of-sex-acts-just-got-banned-in-uk-porn-9897174.html

Stupid and unenforceable, both of them

Its about protecting children they say... Surely more the task of their parents I'd have thought.

[Grumpy]

Don't worry I can still sit on your face, I'm just not allowed to film it and sell it for profit :D

You old smoothie!

[PedroII]

You can have your say about ULEZ here;
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/ultra-low-emission-zone/consultation/intro/view