Live from Ducati

[Mr Gazza]

This is only really relavant if you are reading this right now...4.30pm mon.3rd of nov.

If you go here you can watch 2015 Ducati range being unvieled live.

http://www.motorapido.co.uk/pages/news/moto-rapido-news/ducati-world-premiere-of-the-2015-model-range.htm?mc_cid=73ff48927c&mc_eid=74e8816c66

don't know if you can re-watch it later.?

[DaveDude1976]

Just caught the 1299 Panigale launch, pleeeeeeeeeeeeease let there be a balls out Monster version!!!

[Mr Gazza]

Don't know if you can re-watch it later.?

Looks like you can jump in any time...It's on YouTube.

[Dirty]

A DVT fuglystrada, stripes on a monster, special edition diavel and a more powerful Panigale. Hmmmm.... The Scrambler launch was more exciting and that's saying something!

[Flip]

Is it just me or did anyone else get a feeling of the impending demise of the Monster range during that presentation?

I felt Ducatis' introduction of the Scrambler was exactly the same as it was for the Monster (albeit better organised and branded) back in 1993, that being basically a blank canvas for the new owner to customise and personalise from a ready made catalogue of parts and accessories.

Only with the Scrambler of course, they have been extra clever in introducing four models to choose from as a base and have drawn heavily on their existing experience of market trends regarding apparel to target new and non bike riders.

Personally, I think they (along with almost every other manufacturer) have missed the point- bikes aren't simple anymore, riders can't work on them like they once could and gone are those carefree days of being able to jump on two wheels and ride off to places like the adverts would have you believe.

It's a world of congested roads, over zealous law enforcement and health and safety madness that frowns upon those very open faced crash helmets that the Scrambler brand wants you to buy into.

It's not quite a case of 'The King is dead- long live The King' yet, but on the plus side all of this makes the Monster (especially the less techy ones) even more of a real world ride-able classic in our lifetime.

Don't get me wrong I love Ducati as a company and the passion it provokes, I love the history of my Mach 1 racer, the almost comedic simplicity of my Cucciolo outboard motor and the sheer grin I get when I ride my Monster but I am now beginning to understand the massive interest in the new wave of Café Racer and Brat Bike culture-

There's a lot of people out there that want bikes that ARE simple and fun not just look it.

[Albie]

Maybe they think or know monster brand is safe. Either that or they think they got it wrong again and will revert back sometime.

[Dirty]

I agree 100% with Flip. Monster as a brand has clearly lost it's way. The Scrambler has taken the reins up though and will hopefully be a big success.

[Darren69]

Its a shame as I think the potential market for the scrambler will be much smaller than it would be for the monster. The 2 should be able to co-exist.

[Albie]

This is from my heart so don't shoot me but the majority thought the plastic panel one was rubbish only to be finally accepted maybe a year or two ago. I understand why people love old school because I do to. I love my bike even though it's moving on and it's a far better bike than my 900 or the s4 and I feel the only thing that went wrong was this fuel tanks issues that really are only affecting the older bikes the s2/4r in mishap in. Ducati being such a passionate company do listen and read stuff that we or others write on forums and websites. They change things and try to open the public whilst trying to move on with new regulations from governments. Evolution is a gamble but sometimes it works like it just changed me and whilst I am disappointed losing mine they have made me think. If we are honest and look closely at the scrambler you can still see a monster within its design it being simplistic. Maybe where ducati went wrong is putting the 916 engine in the s4 and then people wanting more and more power. I can also see people buying a scrambler and then cafe racer it as it is halfway there already. Change maybe the forks. Clipons and a different seat and rears etc and your there.
I nearly bought an 821 when looking in Belgium because I tend to want to buy a new model to support ducati. Without that we would lose them to other brands but I don't know whether they try too hard in moving to superbike thinking. I know for sure ducatisti want trellis frame even though it's not necessary now because of modern design.
One thing they have got right is back to metal tanks at least and they do listen. We as monster buyers are a breed who like what we like because we do. We can be selfish and be insulting to change but overall we care about the model. There were times where I had my 1100 and some comments were harsh but having previous models before I knew what's the better bike. I am sure that also goes with the new 1200 and 821 but I won't ever know as have no plans now to try or buy. What I wanted was a 848 version m1100s but they never did.

[utopia]

I haven't seen any previous presentations so I don't know what's gone before, but I must say I was extremely impressed by that one.
In fact I've been pretty impressed with just about everything Ducati has done in the last few years.
Ok, some things like the Diavel and the over-technification of some aspects of design as in say, the Multistrada, are not to my personal tastes but, as a company building motorcycles for the wider market I think they've been right on the money.
I was particularly gladdened to see Domenicali's enthusiasm when he discussed certain design aspects like the new variable valve timing, which are closer to my own preferences (and which will, in my opinion, be a massive step forward in the development of our beloved 90deg twins). And his words on the subject of lightness showed a reassuring commitment to the simpler truths of motorcycle design.
True, the monster was conspicuously absent this time, but perhaps that's understandable with so much effort being put into the scrambler project. And yes, there are similarities with the original monster launch, but I don't really see the scrambler as being a monster replacement.
The way I see it, although there is constant market pressure for ever increasing technical complexity, there will never be any denying the truth of Galuzzi's original statement.... "All you need is........", and I remain hopeful, and with some confidence, that Ducati will continue to produce a monster range which holds to this concept of basic design simplicity.
For them to abandon this notion, when time (and sales figures) has proven massively that it is an essential core value, would be like cutting off their right arm, and would be to end a design thread which stretches right back to the early v-twins of the 70s and has maintained a continuous popularity.

But either way the Monster concept, just like rock an' roll, will never die, because.......
"All you really need is........"
I have faith that, despite some of the trends and pressures of the current market, Ducati have sufficient passion for the core values of motorcycling that they will be simply unable to abandon such an essential concept as the monster.
It would be like selling your grandma.
But even if they do, the concept will be kept alive and well by enthusiasts for its classic design, such as ourselves.

And assuming that they don't.....
I can't wait to see the DVT introduced to the range (in fact that might just tempt my eyes to stray from my beloved air-cooled 750).
And the notion of a Panigale-framed monster in the future is an awesome one.

[Dirty]

Its a shame as I think the potential market for the scrambler will be much smaller than it would be for the monster. The 2 should be able to co-exist.

I dunno actually. The scooter market has blown up in recent years. Thousands of new people are taking to 2 (small, low powered) wheels. I'd imagine a decent % of those people would consider moving up in terms of size and power (I did), hence maxi scooters (an abomination of horrendous proportions, in every sense) but they could be tempted by smaller, easy to ride, cool looking bikes with a great brand behind them.

[Mr Gazza]

Something in my water tells me that Scrambler sales will be better than for Monsters initially, possibly even for a couple of years.
The thing is that the scrambler design would appear to be a little limited in how far it can be changed without moving very far away from what it is ...When they find the need to refresh it for another season the temptation might be to pop in bigger engines and stuff like water cooling...Difficult to see how it could be changed without complicating it?

It has grown on me since the release, but I will give it a couple of years of success, and then I think that the Monster will come back stonger than before. Ducati have clearly spent a long time carefully thinking about the Scrambler. Now they can sit back and watch it sell while they plan thier next move.
I wouldn't be suprised to see the Monster re-emerge in simpler form, more resembling the first models. Possibly even an evolutionary split with one line going the techno route and another returning to it's roots?

I wish the Scrambler the best of luck and I might even be in the market for a used one a few years down the line, but in the meantime I am very happy with my old 900Sie and I think I will be for many years to come..:D

[Albie]

Something in my water tells me that Scrambler sales will be better than for Monsters initially, possibly even for a couple of years.
The thing is that the scrambler design would appear to be a little limited in how far it can be changed without moving very far away from what it is ...When they find the need to refresh it for another season the temptation might be to pop in bigger engines and stuff like water cooling...Difficult to see how it could be changed without complicating it?

It has grown on me since the release, but I will give it a couple of years of success, and then I think that the Monster will come back stonger than before. Ducati have clearly spent a long time carefully thinking about the Scrambler. Now they can sit back and watch it sell while they plan thier next move.
I wouldn't be suprised to see the Monster re-emerge in simpler form, more resembling the first models. Possibly even an evolutionary split with one line going the techno route and another returning to it's roots?

I wish the Scrambler the best of luck and I might even be in the market for a used one a few years down the line, but in the meantime I am very happy with my old 900Sie and I think I will be for many years to come..:D

That's my thinking. I don't have an issue with water cooling as had an s4 but its oh so overcomplicated mess now on them. I am happy to take the plunge now but yes I wish it were 1100cc but as the testers have said its all it really needs and otherwise will take the focus off the fun aspect. Nothing gave me greater pleasure lately than riding my RD250 and TT500 at 70mph honing with a grin. We have been teased with superbike power and that's taken it away from the element of the original design other than the 696/796 and 1100 but people were not happy with plastic element and oval headlights. Never bothered me at all but they are now not being made either. I hope one day Monster will come back simplified again that's pleases all folk.

[Dirty]

Possibly even an evolutionary split with one line going the techno route and another returning to it's roots?


They kind of did that with the Streetfighter. I thought it was a huge mistake not to call it the new Monster.

[jerry]

I like the new 1200 monster and also the new 821 they feel and look right ,, the previous models back to the 696 796,1100 all looked orrible and the spastic tanks fiasco was a disaster ,, ducati still dont have a solution and in a few years all those plastic tank models will be worthless unless one buys a replacement tank,,at least they have gone back to steel now.

I did not like the 1098 -series styling either but the paniagli looks awesome ,

But i think Ducati have another problem ,, they can sell all of the 40,000 new bikes they make but only by canibalising used bike values which is good for serial multi bike owners like me who buy low mileage bikes at bargain prices ,,, depreciation on new ducatis is now very fast .

[SteveM900]

What I can't grasp is Ducati killed off the air cooled Monster supposedly due to emission regs, then bring out a new bike, the Scrambler with ..... an air cooled engine ??

[Mr Gazza]

What I can't grasp is Ducati killed off the air cooled Monster supposedly due to emission regs, then bring out a new bike, the Scrambler with ..... an air cooled engine ??

I think that bodes well for a future Monster, once the Scrambler has given it a little rest.

[utopia]

I can't wait to see the DVT introduced to the monster range.

Actually, when I said this I was thinking in terms of a 2-valve motor but of course, dammit, the system will only work in an engine with separate inlet and exhaust cams, as it is the valve overlap which is varied.
In a single cam cylinder, the overlap is fixed.
Dammit again.

[Flip]

They kind of did that with the Streetfighter. I thought it was a huge mistake not to call it the new Monster.

I was going to post the very same thing!!

To me, Ducati made two major mistakes with the Streetfighter which I believe directly resulted in the bikes' poor sales.

By not calling it a Monster Evolution (or something similar) and thus allowing the more simple air cooled variants to run happily along side for the traditional Monster fans as they should have, they missed the biggest selling point it had as it probably had a stronger bloodline to a Monster in it's concept of being a bit 'parts bin' while at the same time satisfying the public need for even more powerful naked bikes, which was somehow making hyper sports riders walk away from their full fairings in the false belief that bikes producing between 130 and 150+BHP without a fairing were somehow going to save their licences/lives/bank balances etc.

Then by choosing to call it by the Genre name rather than a model specific one it simply lost its identity, for example, by saying 'I ride a streetfighter' meant you could have pulled up to your favourite bacon butty outlet on any sports bike you had crashed the week before, ripped the fairing off and fitted a pair of flat bars to it (Aprilia of course went one step further by actually making their Tuono LOOK like a crashed RSV).

Ironically, in the same way people were divided over the looks of the 749/999 I am certain the Streetfighter will go the same way and attract the smart money in a couple of years as like the 749/999 it is a fantastically capable bike.

To me there is no where for the Monster to go now without criticism, any moves to a simpler incarnation will be seen as a step backwards (and the Scrambler has that covered now) and anything more powerful will be looked upon as so far detached it no longer qualifies to bear the Monster name.

My money is on 2015 being the last production year for the Monster and a new chapter for Ducati with the re-birth of the Scrambler name.

[Flip]

ducati still dont have a solution and in a few years all those plastic tank models will be worthless

Quite true!! Maybe I should tell them that plastic tank parts make great workshop wall art!!

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag329/fluke900/Workshop_zps81bae02f.jpg (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/fluke900/media/Workshop_zps81bae02f.jpg.html)

[SunEye]

I can't wait to see the DVT introduced to the range
You shouldn't have to wait too long. DVT makes the bikes Euro 4 compliant, which they must be from 2016. So expect DVT in all Ducati's engines by then.