Norfolk Police Road saftey campaign Video

[Dirty]

Hard-hitting footage of a fatal collision in Norfolk has been released by police in a bid to get motorcyclists and drivers to think seriously about road safety. Viewers are warned that this video contains content which some may find distressing, but it does not show any graphic images of the rider during or after the collision and they are given the option to refrain from viewing.

http://youtu.be/xq2xStb0R-c

[Davidg1230]

I've just watched this on another site, not good at all and tough to watch.

Another article about the car driver and his conviction.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/a47_death_crash_driver_disqualified_1_3523497

[Akita Boy]

Awful to watch, very sobering and ultimate respect to his family who chose to release this video.

[J.P]

Advanced post-test road training.
It's VERY important to do any of the stuff out there.
IAM, ROSPA or the many companies that offer training to make you more risk away which could help when you're out and about.
He shouldn't have been doing 97 mph, the car driver shouldn't have pulled out etc etc etc.
It's tragic and awful.

[FLATTOP]

I must say when I watched this the first time I had to replay it as on the point of impact I instinctively looked away very hard hitting indeed,he seemed a nice chap such a shame condolences to his family and may he RIP.

[MerlinPV12]

There but for the grace of your chosen deity go quite a few of us - as sobering as it is to watch it, it is a potent reminder to tame the right wrist and read the road ahead. I find that I give myself stern lectures when what remains of my depleted testosterone kicks in and I do something risky or stupid. I'm grateful to the family for once again reminding me that speed kills.

2 takeaways from the Bikesafe course that have stuck with me - 87% of motorcycle fatalities are as a result of "right turn violations". And, the brain almost invariably "fills in" gaps to deal with the processing of complex situations - result we miss-judge the speed and position of other road users. As JP says post test training is very important

[Akita Boy]

Couldn't agree with JP's post on advanced training more.

[maxxjod]

You could argue about various aspects of this video all year long, but two things are very clear cut, yes the biker was travelling above the speed limit and yes the car driver turned right in front of him.
I have come up with the mentality that every car driver is oblivious to the out side world and is out to do something stupid without warning.
What i cant understand from various posts on Facebook is why almost all people jump to the defence of the car driver.

[Dirty]

You could argue about various aspects of this video all year long, but two things are very clear cut, yes the biker was travelling above the speed limit and yes the car driver turned right in front of him.
I have come up with the mentality that every car driver is oblivious to the out side world and is out to do something stupid without warning.
What i cant understand from various posts on Facebook is why almost all people jump to the defence of the car driver.

Where is it discussed on FB?

Probably because most people are car drivers and are thinking 'there but for the....'

[Saint aka ML]

It was posted number of times on FB. Yes they all defend car driver but funny they defend because biker was going to fast. Shows what they know but also shows the attitude. We all speed in car or bike how can one be so blind to that!!

[Dirty]

Oh right.

Both were at fault clearly. Hell of a tough call for the judge. I've been running it over with different scenarios trying to make sense, ie, swap over, car speeding, bike turns right, or both vehicles are cars.

[Darren69]

Yes, tough call for everyone, lets hope the message hits home. In my mind its Clearly a case of 50/50. Please be safe out there people. Remember you are INVISBLE to most car drivers, not INVINCIBLE. So in the car drivers defence he couldn't have expected the bike approaching at that speed and was deaf probably cos he had stereo on and safe in his little cocoon. You can't expect car drivers to see you when approaching them at 2X the speed limit when they already have so many other distractions like radio.mobile phones etc. Treat every car driver as a complete blind idiot and slow down at least and give yourself a fighting chance. It has happened so many times to me when approaching a junction even at legal speeds I'm thinking has he seen me and then the car pulls out and I have to slow up pretty quick.

[Black Bob]

Jesus.

I feel for all concerned. Especially the mum, and including the car driver, actually. Try and imagine what you'd have been able to see from that position. Just a few seconds earlier, you've a car in the distance travelling towards you at whatever speed, then something much thinner and faster squeezes in front of it, probably after you've worked out how much time you've got. I dunno. I'm just speculating so don't be too hard on me.

But +1 on the advanced training comments, although even advanced training doesn't remove the potential for any of us us to unplug our brain at any time and ride like a ****.

Advanced training teaches you, amongst other things, that you do not have to squeeze between a car and a broken white line, ignoring all that nice safe space on the other side of the road, not to ride into a busy junction at high speed, to take note of road signs, and that the big SLOW signs on the road mean you might want to slow down, whereas this chap actually increases his speed after the overtake and before the collision.

They say it was a 50/50 fault thing... but I'm not seeing it that way to be honest.

Makes you wonder if some post test advanced training probably ought to be compulsory.

[Black Bob]

They say it was a 50/50 fault thing... but I'm not seeing it that way to be honest.

Oh, my mistake....

Simon Shannon, mitigating, argued special reasons for his client not to be disqualified from driving or to have his licence endorsed, relating to the speed Mr Holmes was travelling – said to be 97mph.

But district judge Peter Veits did not accept the argument and said it was Austin’s actions which caused the accident.

So the judge says the car driver was 100% to blame.

Harsh?

[Dirty]

So the judge says the car driver was 100% to blame.

Harsh?

In my view yes very. I don't think the judge really believed it though as his sentence, though still too harsh in my mind, could have been up to 5 years prison.

I think if the bike had been turning right and the car had been doing 98 mph he'd still have found the car driver guilty!

[Nickj]

You could see it coming couldn't you

more paranoia and a bit less speed would have made it a more annoying than fatal

[Mr Gazza]

MMmmm...Two immortals treating the road like they're the only ones on it...They meet...One dies.

It's bugging me that I can't work out where it is on the A47. I don't recognise any of it.
I can just about make out Norwich on top of the sign, but the definition is very poor.

I am guessing the bike is heading towards Norwich somewhere between Narborough and Dereham.
Can anyone with HD read the sign?

I never use the road without full radar cover and precognition goggles.
Warp speed is only engaged on stretches that I know have no junctions, driveways or farm gates...Yup, not many places..

[Black Bob]

It's bugging me that I can't work out where it is on the A47. I don't recognise any of it. I can just about make out Norwich on top of the sign, but the definition is very poor.

Here you go (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6670266,1.1004081,3a,75y,77.15h,85.07t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1srt9Cwif64lJU3cG6NRHh_A!2e0)

I'm good at this detective lark.

[Mr Gazza]

Thanks Black Bob.
The turn the car was taking is the road to my Village..Looks completly different on the screen!!
I tend to use the next junction along, when I have to go that way, as it is much easier and safer to enter and leave the A47 there.

The A47 is a really busy road. The junction in question is on a stretch of about two miles between dual carraigeways. All the reps and truckers and late commuters are wound up. I avoid it if at all possible.

I think the rider did everything wrong and then some..But then I don't have to judge as he is already serving a very long sentence. The car driver sliced the turn, but that was predictable (stupid, but predictable).

The video was a display of ignorance on an epic scale. the message is clear...Ride like a twat and be damned.

[smiffyraf1]

saw it and especially after my recent excursion down the road without my bike found it hard to watch. I agree that 97 is a bit mental and i believe is the reason he is dead and not in hospital but i think even if he was going 50 that car would have still pulled across him. under examination the clio driver admitted to not seeing the bike or the car behind the bike which he would have also caused to slow. so in the bike riders absence i think the car driver was to blame.

[Dirty]

saw it and especially after my recent excursion down the road without my bike found it hard to watch. I agree that 97 is a bit mental and i believe is the reason he is dead and not in hospital but i think even if he was going 50 that car would have still pulled across him. under examination the clio driver admitted to not seeing the bike or the car behind the bike which he would have also caused to slow. so in the bike riders absence i think the car driver was to blame.

If he was going 50 the car would have had time to make the turn before the bike got there.

[Akita Boy]

If he was going 50 the car would have had time to make the turn before the bike got there.

And he'd have had more time to react, and most important his momentum is massively different at the point of impact at 97 than it would've been at 50.

But again it's highly unfair to judge either party as I'm fairly sure the car didn't deliberately turn into the bikes path, it was reckless or careless (depending on your point of view) but definately not dilberate. And the bike was being deliberately reckless with his riding as you can see if you watch him leading up to the point of impact. But aren't we all reckless whenever any of us get on two wheels.

This should be treated as a massive learning experience as when it goes wrong on two wheels it goes ****ing badly wrong and too ****ing quickly to do anything about it.

[Dirty]

Yes but I think there wouldn't have been an impact if he'd been doing 50. The driver has admitted he didn't see him and so would have turned anyway, maybe making the bike slow or swerve.

If they swapped positions ie the bike was turning and the car was doing 98mph I strongly doubt they'd prosecute the biker!

[Black Bob]

If he was going 50 the car would have had time to make the turn before the bike got there.

Easily, I'd say. And even if not, the reduced speed of impact would have meant he probably wouldn't have flown all the way from the bollard to the trees without bouncing once, nor taken the front of the Clio clean off and left it pointing the other way. The Google view illustrates the vast distance covered in flight.

Horrible illustration of just how much kinetic energy has to be dealt with when it goes wrong.

[gary tompkins]

At 97mph you are travelling at 142 feet a second

At 50mph you are travelling at 73 feet a second

Not much more needs to be said

[Mr Gazza]

.... But aren't we all reckless whenever any of us get on two wheels.

No..............

[nambduke]

At 97mph you are travelling at 142 feet a second

At 50mph you are travelling at 73 feet a second

Not much more needs to be said

I agree GT. Distance travelled has a big bearing on this crash.

97 on a 50 limited road is just daft. No excuse that the car turned in front but they have just misjudged the speed of the bike. Would we all expect a bike coming in the opposite direction to be travelling at almost twice the speed limit?

There's some clues on the road advising what road users should do when approaching this junction....SLOW. The lad on the bike ignored them....why....we'll never know unfortunately!

The damage to the car was huge.

The poor lad lost his life but even his mum said her son liked speed. It must have broken her heart doing the video! Being a parent myself, she has my sympathy. My eldest rides a bike and I've drummed into him there is a time and place to speed. I hope I never have to make such a video!

I'm just getting old and self preservation has got to me. I still push on on ocassions but there's a time and place for these antics.....ride safe you guys!!

Best regards
Mark

[Flip]

Horrible to watch for sure and goes without saying thoughts are with his family and friends. Also it must be extremely difficult to deal with for the car driver.

However, as I believe is still the case in the eyes of the law a driver turning right must ensure their entrance and exit to the turn is clear and therefore if taking the turn results in a collision it is deemed that it was not clear and so the vehicle turning right is at fault regardless of the speed of the colliding vehicle.

That is exactly how it was explained to me after I went into the side of a car turning right twenty odd years ago- there was a Police prosecution which took eighteen months to get to court where the driver was found guilty of careless driving.

I do agree at the speed the bike was travelling in this case it was either impossible for the car driver to judge the riders speed (headlights, although help get you seen actually confuse the brain when it comes to judging speed) or he simply didn't see him.

Speed was not really a factor in my case, it was simply I had no where to go except into the passenger door.

Thankfully with me there were no lasting injuries which makes watching this video all the more sobering and of course, I agree that any training etc. is a good thing but we do all need to be careful that we don't get swamped with 'safety measures' or we'll be going down the route of compulsory training, safety clothing and anti-tamper devices before we know it.

Motorcycling is still one of few past times that allow people to feel free of lifes' ever tightening constraints and we should remember and fight for that to remain true.