New monster 821

[smiffyraf1]

just seen the new pics of the baby (??!!) monster 821. what do people think?
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n530/smiffyraf1/Mobile%20Uploads/Untitled_zps9c1ffd04.jpg (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/smiffyraf1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Untitled_zps9c1ffd04.jpg.html)

[Fatal]

Looks good in Black, shame they Don't do a Yellow one ;)
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/first-on-visordown-ducati-monster-821-official-pics/25045.html

Alan H

[Dukedesmo]

Nice enough bike, I assume it's essentially a small displacement 1200? looks it to me anyway but it's got a proper number plate holder thingy rather than the Diavel/HD mud-scraper plate.

You having 'thoughts' Smiffy?... ;)

[smiffyraf1]

ha ha ha no not for me. as much as i appreciate the new stuff feel it lacks the soul and beauty of the 90's stuff. do love the pipework on these though. is a work of art, shame it has to be hidden under plastic.

[TomJC]

Give me more framework and air cooling. Call me old fashioned, ditto on the exhaust manifold pipes. they are lush!

[steeevvvooo]

is the radiator smaller? Somehow looks neater, but I would have to see it side by side with the 1200

[Dirty]

They don't mention why black is £200 cheaper?

[J.P]

It looks fine. Using the motor from the Hypermotard . The 796 will be no more.
Will they make an even smaller one for the entry model or just the 821 & the 1200 ?

[bigredduke]

It looks fine. Using the motor from the Hypermotard . The 796 will be no more.
Will they make an even smaller one for the entry model or just the 821 & the 1200 ?

If a dealer I spoke to recently is to be believed, there will be no more air-cooled Monsters, apparently due to emissions regs. So unless Ducati develop a smaller w/c engine it will just be the 821 & 1200 available. They are likely to miss out on new riders or those who prefer a middleweight. I suppose they could sleeve down the 821 to make a 650 or similar.

[J.P]

I just imagine that is a young new owner walked in a shop and they said the smallest engine you can have is over 800 cc I'd be a bit scared. Of course, now I'm not, but I thought my first bike, the 695 cc was a big engine at the time.

[steeevvvooo]

They don't mention why black is £200 cheaper?

Lack of a lacquer lackey... I assume the dark is going to be matte

[utopia]

112bhp, 66ft.lb and 180kg sounds like a pretty good package.
But I'd prefer it with less engine performance if that meant it was also less cluttered.....and lighter.
The newer trellis frame would really show off the vee motor nicely if it wasn't for the plastic clutter between and in front of the cylinders.
Its a real shame that the aircooled motors are to be discontinued in order to make miniscule emissions reductions which have little if any global significance when compared to other polluting activities.
But if that's the way it has to be then the new monsters do the job reasonably well in my opinion.
Though I'm inclined to think that the cans with their near-horizontal slash cut ends are a styling department's folly, likely to collect every raindrop that falls.
I'll not be buying one myself, but in the grand scheme of things I quite like them (in black).

I wonder whether there is any future prospect of the entry level Ducatis being desmo singles.
Makes sense, to my way of thinking.

[Dirty]

Young riders

U21s and U24s can get category A2 licences. Power must not exceed 35kw. Lots of manufacturers are catering to this market as I believe it is EU wide. Plenty of 600 ish bikes fall into the category or can be easily restricted.

That said Ducati is an aspirational brand so it's not a big deal. People will still intend to own one. Thing is if they get sidetracked by Honda or Triumph they may not get round to it. Making an even smaller one still makes sense.

[simon_g]

Like. Possibly enough to consider buying a new bike after 5 years with my 695.

And yes, it leaves a good gap down to a A2-level Monster - that class of bike is really taking off in India, SE Asia and elsewhere as people trade up from the usual 150cc stuff.

[AndyC_772]

Sounds like it could be brilliant. Less weight than the 1200, not much less power, and I think I spot some proper clocks on it instead of the unreadable TFT screen.

After riding the 1200 (http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=49738) a couple of weeks ago, I think it sounds like a great improvement. Looking forward to trying it out if the opportunity presents itself.

[LouSCannon]

Reckon this will be an excellent bike! Looks the business and as Andy says avoids some negatives from the 1200 brute!

[bex]

I can't help but see Alien. I suppose I'm the only one?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/rjbecs/alien1-1.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/rjbecs/media/alien1.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/rjbecs/alien2-1.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/rjbecs/media/alien2.jpg.html)

[Dirty]

I can't help but see Alien. I suppose I'm the only one?



Not anymore!

[Dukedesmo]

I can't help but see Alien. I suppose I'm the only one?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/rjbecs/alien1-1.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/rjbecs/media/alien1.jpg.html)

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/s851x315/10377530_10203566583912592_8440539862105116546_n.j pg



Ah yes, I see it now... ;)

[adrianbalchi]

Having been out on the M1100 air cooled at the weekend and enjoyed the visceral / raw / mechanical experience of it plus the 65mpg+ benefit - I'm thinking : What is the progress here?! or am I getting old?

[Albie]

I would have one for sure. Not sure when I fall out of love with mine though. I like the white with red frame one though. Going to wait a wee while to decide and deffo test one.

[AndyC_772]

Reckon this will be an excellent bike! Looks the business and as Andy says avoids some negatives from the 1200 brute!

Are you not enjoying your 1200 then mate? :worried:

[DrD]

Still a lot of clutter on the left side:http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/2014-ducati-monster-821-announced-5-622x465.jpg

[jonzi]

Do we have news on a GPI?

Could be a deal breaker for me

[J.P]

Do we have news on a GPI?

What the hell is a GPI ??

[AndyC_772]

Gear Position Indicator. I'm starting to wonder whether there might actually be a market out there for one which doesn't suck. Hm.....

[uksurfer]

i really like it, how much it cost?

[MrsC_772]

For the dark RRP of £8,500
For red or white RRP £8,700

[Albie]

For the dark RRP of £8,500
For red or white RRP £8,700

Cheaper by £1050.00 than a new M1100S 5 years ago with less Horses

Now where does this leave values of Aircooled bikes. Up or down

[Grumpy]

Floats my boat!
Very reasonably priced for the spec/performance, I do like the styling of the 1200, and available in black!

[wezrvf]

Wonder how the weight compares to the 1100 ??

[Albie]

Soon get rid of all the junk plastic . Most of the clutters exhaust shields and pillion peg mounts

[Albie]

Wonder how the weight compares to the 1100 ??

I reckon at least 10-20 kg heavier. Metal tank and rad and water and hoses etc.

[LouSCannon]

180kg... Still a heavy bike!

[LouSCannon]

Are you not enjoying your 1200 then mate? :worried:

Not at all, loving the 1200, but like I've always thought the 796 is a great package I reckon this new model will be a corker... I love bikes that take a little wrestling to ride... But it's nice to have the 900 on hand when I don't feel like losing my license :)

[Black Bob]

Aesthetically, the left hand side of the bike seems to be a bit of an abortion compared to the previous air-cooled machines.

Less grunt than the old Evo, but more power via higher revs. That will suit some for sure, and probably be less frustrating on the odd track day where the Evo finds the limiter a bit quick.

[SteveG]

180kg... Still a heavy bike!

Looks nice... well nearly.. ...and the weight... yeah, yeah - needs a tail chop for sure , that'll help improve both areas for a start..... :mand::mand:

( fully expecting incoming differences of opinion... :flamed: )

before chop...
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/122403255@N05/14106989740" title="Untitled_zps9c1ffd04 by Steve G, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2938/14106989740_20de863e38_n.jpg" width="320" height="190" alt="Untitled_zps9c1ffd04"></a>

After chop...
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/122403255@N05/14106698909" title="821 tail chop by Steve G, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5516/14106698909_0272098084_n.jpg" width="320" height="190" alt="821 tail chop"></a>

[Dirty]

Found a couple of alternative pics

left side

http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/sites/bbcgoodfood.com/files/user-recipe/spaghetti_bolognese_with_mushrooms_941599_4.jpg

Right side

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148988/3651107-9494673279-alien.jpg

[Black Bob]

Found a couple of alternative pics

:D Very drole.

[tricolore]

Floats my boat!
Very reasonably priced for the spec/performance, I do like the styling of the 1200, and available in black!

I agree, looks good and much more affordable - ish. Change that exhasut shield and number plate holder and it will be a cracker...

White with red wheels ? :worried:

[utopia]

Really don't think I could live with the left side.
For me, a key feature of a monster is the way its so very effective and yet so simple.
There is a beauty in that which is almost spiritual.
The newer models seem to lose sight of that a little more each time.
I suppose there's nowhere much left to go when you've built the perfect motorcycle (the old 2-valve monsters) and the market demands continued "progress".
And of course if technology is new it must also be "good", mustn't it .....?
And we all want "more" don't we ....?
So sayeth the mass market which keeps the factory in production.
Fair enough really. It just doesn't float my particular boat, but I can appreciate the idea of a little excess every now and then.
And if Ducati are to thrive they have to operate in the prevailing marketplace.
So, all in all, under the circumstances, I quite like the new monsters, even though their soul is hidden beneath the seemingly necessary clutter of modern commercialism.
They do still at least have the same soul in there somewhere.
But, with cash in my own pocket, 2 or 3 thousand quid for a tidy two valver is a heck of a lot more motorcycle per pound, and hits the spot a lot closer.
Less is more, in so many ways.
And you certainly couldn't say that about the left side.

[Black Bob]

Once Ducati were unable to produce an air-cooled Monster that met Euro regs, they should have just called it a day, dropped the model from their range, and carried on down the Streetfighter route for the naked category.

I didn't much fancy the look of the Streetfighter when I was looking at the Monster last year, but next to these new models, the Streetfighter is/was a far nicer looking package. How have they managed to make such a balls up of the aesthetics ?

A Monster shouldn't have plumbing - it's just wrong.

There, I said it.

[turbohobbit]

Personally, I rather like it, I'm a fan. But equally, I'm coming from the POV of a 696 owner, so make of that what you will!

Consider as well the opponent in the class: the Yam MT09. A well-received bike for about 1.5k less. Tricky...

[Kato]

OK looked at it! refrained from comment! looked at it again this morning, looks just like the 1200 and all I can see is

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/kato--/hqdefault_zps636aee15.jpg

[Dirty]

OK looked at it! refrained from comment! looked at it again this morning, looks just like the 1200 and all I can see is

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/kato--/hqdefault_zps636aee15.jpg

Aha yes, Spaghetti Polpettes :chuckle:

[bigredduke]

OK looked at it! refrained from comment! looked at it again this morning, looks just like the 1200 and all I can see is

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/kato--/hqdefault_zps636aee15.jpg

Did you go out specifically to take a picture of faeces or do you have a library ready for appropriate situations?

[Dirty]

Did you go out specifically to take a picture of faeces or do you have a library ready for appropriate situations?

http://www.heresoneimadeearlier.com/blue-peter ?:chuckle:

[Kato]

Did you go out specifically to take a picture of faeces or do you have a library ready for appropriate situations?

Google is great for any situation:mand::mand:

[sadbiker]

Will have to say it nicer looking than the older watercooled monsters, but for me the S2r1000 red with white wheels was the best looker, just the wheels were coated with brake dust as soon as you went down the road.

[Black Bob]

.... just the wheels were coated with brake dust as soon as you went down the road.

At least then they looked a bit less gay.

;)

[Dirty]

Will have to say it nicer looking than the older watercooled monsters,

The bike you could argue about but the engine I don't think has a credible position.The old wc engine had honest cam covers and didn't have to resort to sticking engine shaped bits of plastic on so people would know what the big bit under the tank was :)

[Albie]

The bike you could argue about but the engine I don't think has a credible position.The old wc engine had honest cam covers and didn't have to resort to sticking engine shaped bits of plastic on so people would know what the big bit under the tank was :)

Look my opinion is the aircooled ones are gone. Finitto, end of, period . You now have a choice Monster with tons of health and safety modifications for trapped fingers, picking up stray dogs going around corners, children touching the bike when your not around. That's basically all it is. Over cosseted with lots of sensors and bits to make it safe and perform better than the old bikes. They are here to stay like it or not. Its a monster made by ducati and buy one or buy a Harley. Hey when they have to all go around with a water jacket like a vee rod that will also be fun. I don't agree its better looking than the old watercooled one but I could and would live with it.
I would have personally wanted my bike with a watercooled engine when I saw a 749 lump fitted to one. In my opinion it was better looking than this latest evolution. I hope we don't have more evolutions every 5 years like we now seem to have but I reckon that's what the trade does now.
No one really liked plastic tanked monsters 5 years ago and now they are fitting in nicely with the pack and some not all agree they are better than original but that's not the point. We are living in a world of too much red tape and having to be safety conscious first before anything else. The only good thing is we can continue to debate what is the best monster and that will always be said the M900.
Please don't bite my head off... I love all of them and even 821 in white with red frame and lets not forget the trellis although always on a monster is not something Ducati used on all of their bikes. :mand::mand: We just don't want to see it completely gone do we.:mad:

Been there done that

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/ukmonster/Albies%20Monster/10367580_10152502627430701_434526253931813301_n.jp g (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/ukmonster/media/Albies%20Monster/10367580_10152502627430701_434526253931813301_n.jp g.html)

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/ukmonster/Albies%20Monster/Marketplacealbie-3.jpg (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/ukmonster/media/Albies%20Monster/Marketplacealbie-3.jpg.html)

[Dirty]

Look my opinion is the aircooled ones are gone. Finitto, end of, period . You now have a choice Monster with tons of health and safety modifications for trapped fingers, picking up stray dogs going around corners, children touching the bike when your not around. That's basically all it is. Over cosseted with lots of sensors and bits to make it safe and perform better than the old bikes. They are here to stay like it or not. Its a monster made by ducati and buy one or buy a Harley. Hey when they have to all go around with a water jacket like a vee rod that will also be fun. I don't agree its better looking than the old watercooled one but I could and would live with it.
I would have personally wanted my bike with a watercooled engine when I saw a 749 lump fitted to one. In my opinion it was better looking than this latest evolution. I hope we don't have more evolutions every 5 years like we now seem to have but I reckon that's what the trade does now.
No one really liked plastic tanked monsters 5 years ago and now they are fitting in nicely with the pack and some not all agree they are better than original but that's not the point. We are living in a world of too much red tape and having to be safety conscious first before anything else. The only good thing is we can continue to debate what is the best monster and that will always be said the M900.
Please don't bite my head off... I love all of them and even 821 in white with red frame and lets not forget the trellis although always on a monster is not something Ducati used on all of their bikes. :mand::mand: We just don't want to see it completely gone do we.:mad:

Been there done that

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/ukmonster/Albies%20Monster/10367580_10152502627430701_434526253931813301_n.jp g (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/ukmonster/media/Albies%20Monster/10367580_10152502627430701_434526253931813301_n.jp g.html)

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/ukmonster/Albies%20Monster/Marketplacealbie-3.jpg (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/ukmonster/media/Albies%20Monster/Marketplacealbie-3.jpg.html)

Why would I bite your head off? I'm not sure but as far as I can tell we are in agreement.

Except on the trellis frame. Of course I love it but if Ducati made a gorgeous non trellis Monster I'd love that too. Same if the 1200 engine was gorgeous. It just ain't and no amount of plastic add ons can make it so.

[Albie]

I meant anyone not just you of course. Its all good opinion on here and we love hate marmite etc. I gave up that monster above for the 1100s because I was bored. I get bored too easy with bikes to keep stock unless it REALLY floats my boat. The 1100s never did straight away. Wrong colour frame on the white and red on a red bike. Really what a waste of paint on that scheme. I live with it now and that's why I am forever changing panels. If I owned a Norton 961 I don't know how I would be other than cleaning and posing with it and generally riding past windows licking the visor.
Now the 821 would be enough for me. I don't need a 1200 at all but would I hate all the junk. Undoubtedly yes ! I would therefore spend £2-3000 on parts like I did on the 1100s albeit a lot of it was 50% off prices nearly new or new ebay ex ducati stock.
I have been studying the 821 and seeing that the rear subframe looks like its tubular so would consider going red to continue the through look. Rear sets would be a must with slimmer rear cans. See they have the coffin brake/ clutch again WHY ! Exhaust shields would be minimal and not double layered like they seem to be. I don't mind at all the swingarm being dual arm as it looks decent unlike my hatred for the 696 one . That's why I never wanted one at all and why the 1100 just did it for me.

I am going to test one sometime this year to see what they are all about but my major concern is what will values be say me part ex. My bikes worth 6K last week but what now. I could cough up 3k to get one tomorrow but what else will they wheel out the garage in 6 months time. An S or R ?

[NattyBoy]

Much tidier than the 1200 but alas still leaves me a bit cold :-(

[sadbiker]

At least then they looked a bit less gay.

;)

Ha ha ha..... Maybe but used to love just looking at it after a clean and polish.... Don't think I will ever get another bike with white wheels.

My personal feeling is Jap wc engines look better on a naked, more cleaner. But we are all to our own.

[Black Bob]

My personal feeling is Jap wc engines look better on a naked, more cleaner. But we are all to our own.

Agreed - the SV650 and TL1000 engines were/are a fine example of how to do plumbing on a water-cooled V-twin.

[Dirty]

Sorry Albie, you quoted me so I assumed :mand:



My personal feeling is Jap wc engines look better on a naked, more cleaner. But we are all to our own.

I think there are a lot of good looking engines, of all makes and nationalitys, wc and ac, twins, triples, 4s. Whether I like it or not, what is important, to me, is that it looks like an engine, ie you can clearly identify some basic elements at a glance, and that it looks good. I even saw a BMW boxer engine at the Bike Shed show that I liked. Admittedly they had stripped and polished it to within an inch of its life and but it looked great for it.

http://s14.postimg.org/susjn765t/IMG_0949.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/iyrgnk0dt/IMG_0950.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/es6m880s1/IMG_0952.jpg

[jerry]

Steel tank is a major step forward ,, no gasohol issues , warping , swelling ,, but the left hand side is messy ,, and that crappy headlight with no decent beams ....hmmmm but i do like it ..nicer than the old 696/796 after getting rid of the minging underseat exhausts ..

[Kato]

I don't think I would have an issue with any of it if it wasn't for the name, (still wouldn't buy one!) Ducati should never have called it a MONSTER it has neither the looks or the spirit, to me its just like BMW calling their cars MINI, its just wrong, I bet Miguel Galluzzi & Sir Alec Issigonis wouldn't even recognise their own creations.

[LouSCannon]

That's the problem with being an idealist... you are the only person who suffers due to your own perception.

BMW and MINI is a good example, and the whole ethos of Ducati Monster is indeed a good argument. But following that train of thought you are in effect saying Ducati should have only produced a limited number with the Monster tag and left the model to die. Maybe so, and then you'd have an ever shrinking number of enthusiasts with such bikes, slowly ending this club. Perhaps Ducati would never release a successful naked due to the lack of heritage and brand name, hurting their business and driving quality across the board down resulting in the brand name decreasing in value and ultimately affecting everything Ducati... maybe.

But all that would be ok, because the Monster brand would have been a spark in the fire and a grand success, owned now by a small number of enthusiasts sitting in a little dark corner on their own grumbling to each other how Ducati has gone down hill and they should do another Monster.

I do see your core point Kato, and that shared by many others and I do in fact agree with the 'Spirit of the Monster' argument, but this is the way Ducati has gone, and frankly your moaning and grumbling only makes you more miserable and puts off prospective new members who on googling the new Monsters will come across this thread and think this club isn't the place for them.

Embrace the change, champion your own view by keeping the older machines going, yet support and welcome new owners and try being happy that the Monster brand is so successful it's kept going after 20 years and has spawned a club such as this!

[utopia]

Hard to argue with that, Kato.
"All you need is too much power, some complex electronics to control the excess, and a load of plastic to cover up the mess.....and a tank, seat, wheels and bars".
Doesn't have quite the same magic, does it ?

But Jim does so quite effectively.

[LouSCannon]

Weeeelllll... I found this club when I was buying my first Monster via a google search and happened across it. If I went back and saw the bike I just put a deposit down on, and was so excited to arrive, being slated like the latest models are I'd never visit the site again!

All that view succeeds in doing is killing the club, and devaluing the Monster brand. Surely there's more satisfaction in owning the older models helping new members and being HAPPY that this club and the Monster model is so successful rather then bitching and moaning about Germans and how life was better in the stone age... I truly hope in another 20 years this club will still be here and people will be having the same discussion about whatever technical path is taken with future Monsters. I find being excited about change, embracing change, and thinking what it will be like to ride in on an 'Original' Monster in 5 or 10 years time at a Monster meet is so much more fulfilling then being a luddite as like I say, ultimately it's only you who suffers in misery... I wish I could take that mental approach in all areas of my life but one step at a time eh?! :)

[pompone]

For Ducati the name monster is the most important marketing tool they have in the naked sector. That's why the SF didn't take the place of the Monster Black Bob. It would have been commercial suicide for the sake of keeping few hardcore fans happy. Would you do that if it was your business?
Louscannon argument is correct but forgets one positive of idealism: the ability to generate positive and more articulated discussion. Critique is important and Kato has his own brand, which could be argued it makes the forum more interesting. I would argue the turd picture is a but off putting especially if like me you're having your brekkie but hey ;)
On the bike is not the plastic I don't like. That you can remove. Is all that cast aluminium. The styling is good but the cast parts make it look japanesey.
If you think this Is ugly have you seen the pictures of the scrambler??

[samieb]

Jim has hit the nail on the head here, quite surprised me somewhat but good onyer. Change, no-one likes this me included, but to make progress change is a part of life. I went back to an S2R 1000 recently. Lovely bike to ride and after a quick test ride on a 1200 it just didn't float my boat right now.

In the end of the day, you pays your money and takes your choice. We all have differing opinions about whats right and wrong with Ducati. However Ducati MUST CHANGE to survive in this dog eat dog world. Ducati produced around 8% or so more bikes in the last 12 months how many other manufacturers managed that in these difficult financial climates?

If you want to be a purest, there are bikes out there, takes a while though to find them. You'll also find +'s & -'s for every model, new or old. For people who only want 1 or 2 bikes of which 1 is a Monster, they'll change between models and upgrade to the latest.

Having heard rumours of whats happening in 2015/16 with Ducati models, its quite exciting tbh. " I'm not allowed to air my views in a public forum", but lets say that they are bringing back some of the original names and numbers from the past and it should bring in some new people and hopefully change a few who want between 100 and 150BHP without the bikes wanting to rip your heads & arm off such as an 1098/ 1199. To give you a clue look at the 899 Panigale/ Scrambler due out soon etc.

The Monster 1200 is a start, needs modernising somewhat (my opinion sorry Jim), however that 1198 engine is a hoot and although aesthetically it might not quite be right yet with regards to some of the add-ons etc. Lets see if they change it slightly in a few years and improve 1 or 2 of its current flaws that a few of us feel it has.

For now though let Jim and the other new 1200/ 821 owners enjoy their fun. Lets not forget he also has an M900 too, so has a foot in both opinions.

[LouSCannon]

The Monster 1200 is a start, needs modernising somewhat (my opinion sorry Jim), however that 1198 engine is a hoot

Oh I agree, I'm actually in two minds about customising it too much in case I want to give it back at the end of the two years at the moment. To ride I absolutely love it, and some of the latest exhausts (Remus just released theirs) look good, but I'm not sure throwing carbon parts at it will be enough to save it. Waiting to see what parts come out and will likely make a last minute decision whether or not to keep it or give it back for the latest model...

[Black Bob]

For Ducati the name monster is the most important marketing tool they have in the naked sector. That's why the SF didn't take the place of the Monster Black Bob. It would have been commercial suicide for the sake of keeping few hardcore fans happy. Would you do that if it was your business?

Good point. Well made. After all, Ducati are in it to make money, not keep nostalgic club members happy.

The new one will appeal to new folks, to whom the old ones might not have. New enthusiasts will replace old ones. Eventually we will all be dead, while those yet to be born are hooning around on their fuel-cell powered electric Monsters, wondering why we ever put up with the racket of internal combustion engines.

:)

[LouSCannon]

fuel-cell powered electric Monsters, wondering why we ever put up with the racket of internal combustion engines.

:)

Now you've gone too far....

[Dukedesmo]

Now you've gone too far....

They probably said that about the steam engine...

[pompone]

Good point. Well made. After all, Ducati are in it to make money, not keep nostalgic club members happy.

The new one will appeal to new folks, to whom the old ones might not have. New enthusiasts will replace old ones. Eventually we will all be dead, while those yet to be born are hooning around on their fuel-cell powered electric Monsters, wondering why we ever put up with the racket of internal combustion engines.

:)

Well by then I would have built my own Cocoon-like machine to keep me young and pretty. I will also have discovered how to make petrol out of used tea bags and turn water into wine (although I understand this has been done before)
On a more serious note I'd loved for the new monsters (including the 1200) to have carried the baton if the original monster but so far they've fallen a but short of the target. May be due to a much wider market offer now than in '93, may be because customisation has changed, the global economy makes for more cautious choices at both manufacturer and customer end, global warming.. God knows. But just doesn't feel the same vibe.

[Dirty]

I have nothing against progress. I can love the old and the new as I don't let my sentimental side rule my head. I'm as happy hooning around in a 1970's muscle car as I would be in a 2013 Nissan GTR. The Mini and the Beetle upset a load of old fans with the new models but gained a bunch a of new. Porsche upsets it's hard core membership with every new 911 but they go from strength to strength. It's necessary in today's commercial consumerist world. Back in the day you bought something and kept it, often for life, yours or its. Now we change everything after 2 years so need new. Fine I say, bring it on. I'm as far from luddite as it gets.

I don't care what Ducati do with the Monster name, as long as it looks good and goes great. Those are the only 2 things they need to keep from the older models IMO. Bin the trellis, throw away air cooling but make it jaw droppingly lovely. I think they made a huge mistake by not moving forward and calling the Sf the Monster. They chained themselves to the past by doing so and in my view lost sales because of it. They also made a mistake when they decided to ignore the fact that it is ugly and put the 1198 into the new Monster. That engine, brilliant though it is, was never meant to show it's face from behind a fairing. Naked bikes need pretty engines. If you don't have one then don't make a naked until you do. It's like Stephen Hawking entering a body building contest!

As for neutering opinion in case people read it and get upset! In case someone doesn't join or doesn't like their bike anymore??? I love my M600 and if every single one of the 7,768 forum members posted that it was a pile of crap it would not change my opinion on it or how I feel about it one bit. I'd just think 7,768 members are wrong. If it did change my opinion I'd know I'd bought the wrong bike for the wrong reasons and go searching for the right one straight away.

[LouSCannon]

As for neutering opinion in case people read it and get upset! In case someone doesn't join or doesn't like their bike anymore???

There's opinion, and then there's pictures of turds and un-constructive slating.

I love being associated with a club and a model of bike that encourages independent taste and ideas, few other models of machine have dedicated owners clubs as active and welcoming as the Ducati Monster, and without continuous development and moving with the times by Ducati this club would cease to exist and that would be a massive shame.

Likewise debate and discussion should be welcomed and promoted, but on this thread I believe a line had been crossed and a limit reached, hence my statement. That and I ran out of tea bags this morning so was grumpy to begin with...

[Black Bob]

Likewise debate and discussion should be welcomed and promoted, but on this thread I believe a line had been crossed and a limit reached, hence my statement. That and I ran out of tea bags this morning so was grumpy to begin with...

Didn't notice anything ? Free speech and all that, so long as it doesn't get personal.

Deviating slightly, I do have to take issue with the defence of the BMW Mini.

A car that is larger than a VW Golf should not be called a Mini - it's surely in breach of the Trade Description Act 1968.

As is putting anything less than 904cc into a trellis frame and calling it a Monster. Oh...

[jonzi]

...Deviating slightly, I do have to take issue with the defence of the BMW Mini.

A car that is larger than a VW Golf should not be called a Mini - it's surely in breach of the Trade Description Act 1968...

They aren't MINI's, they are MEDIUM's

[smiffyraf1]

completely agree with jim. would rather the name go on and interest/members in the forum increase rather than it die. in 20 years time be interesting to see if the current model is loved as much as the early ones and what the current model will look like then. there will always be a difference of opinions and tastes but isnt that what makes monster great in the first place? every bike is unique after the owner has stamped there style on to it.

[Kato]

I'll get me coat...............

[smiffyraf1]

ha ha ha leave it where it is! i do agree i am not a fan of the looks as i said in my first post. in my opinion i don't think the original design of the monster will ever be beaten. even it was partly by accident. love all of the ducati from that era though. IMHO the 916 is a much better looking bike than the 1199 and if there wasn't such a massive price difference to make it a viable choice id always choose the 916 same as id choose the early monster over the new one. As has been said am sure air cooled are no longer an option due to emission regs which is a crying shame as probably no longer see the likes of the sports classics in the future and not sure how the scrambler project will look with a WC engine in. hmmm. :(

[Kato]

The Mini and the Beetle upset a load of old fans with the new models but gained a bunch a of new. Porsche upsets it's hard core membership with every new 911 but they go from strength to strength.

As for neutering opinion in case people read it and get upset! In case someone doesn't join or doesn't like their bike anymore??? I love my M600 and if every single one of the 7,768 forum members posted that it was a pile of crap it would not change my opinion on it or how I feel about it one bit. I'd just think 7,768 members are wrong. If it did change my opinion I'd know I'd bought the wrong bike for the wrong reasons and go searching for the right one straight away.

But you can still recognise them as a Beetle or 911, progress but character kept, can't argue with that.

I'm not sure I want to be neutered:worried:


There's opinion, and then there's pictures of turds and un-constructive slating.

I don't believe I was un-constructively slating anything just expressing an opinion, I cannot comment on anything other than the looks as I've not ridden one and probably will not do so, seems pointless as even if its the best riding bike ever I still don't like the look of it so won't buy, perhaps I should have said "I think it looks jolly awful"



They aren't MINI's, they are MEDIUM's

Saw 4 x 4 one on the way home today maybe they should call it GIANT

[LouSCannon]

To reiterate, in my own opinion, the amount of negativity went beyond simple grumbling and with the view of a prospective new member googling their brand new model reading those posts could in fact confirm several perceived stereotypes of both general vehicle owners clubs and Ducati owners in general.

It's been said before, we've all had grumbles in the past, even I did with the last round of new shapes. The way you fell for Natty's April fools for instance was highly amusing and it's often all taken in good nature. But post after post of negativity with nothing constructive to say and resorting to pictures of turds frankly is a little much and in fact made me feel embarrassed thinking any new owner reading the thread. It gets more then a little repetitive after you've said something is sh1t more then a few times!


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/43879340.jpg

[Rowly]

This debate seems to occur at every iteration of the Monster.
What is one?
Triumph recognised that there is still a demand for the Bonneville, and that's a nice bike.
Is a Monster not a streetfighter (in the sense that it is a sportsbike without the fairing) but a performance naked? In which case Ducati should get bits out of their current parts bin and chuck them together.
Do we think the Monster was a classic and preserved as such? I think with the many variations over the years this is improbable.
I love the look of Ducati's classic but what happened to that?

I believe in the parts bin idea so the current model is fine by me but I'm not a fan of the cooling. Would I buy a monster over a Z1? For engine character, probably.

[bigredduke]

There are no doubt Ducati fans out there that would argue bevel drive engines (only round-case naturally) are the only true versions. If that were the case (no pun intended) they would be too expensive to buy and maintain but exclusivity would be a given. Not sure sales would be sufficient to keep Ducati afloat though.

The British bike industry died out largely because it persisted with 1950's designs into the 1970's when the Japanese were offering up-to-date, multi-cylindered bikes which were reliable & didn't require ready access to an oil tanker.

That said, Triumph have managed to successfully update classics such as the Bonneville yet still retain much of the original essence of the original.

Perhaps Ducati might introduce a 'retro' Monster in a few years like they did with the Sport Classics in 2005/2006. They didn't sell well at the time though.

I didn't particularly like aspects of the 'new' Monster in 2009 but I am very happy with my 1100 Evo now. Sometimes these things just take time.

[Albie]

I like every single one of them. I also criticise my own. Its not perfect. No monster is. Thats why kato changes his for a look that satisfies his soul. His is individual like many and also many dont like his I believe. Not everyone likes radical. Not everyone likes carbon fibre. But we all like ducati I hope and believe in their success.
Im excited by the thought of trying a better power plant than mine.

[simontt]

I like the improvements the current monster brings and would consider the 1200s as an upgrade, but it's not £7k better than my 1100evo.

Tried the Hypermotard 821 last year, the engine whilst smooth feel flat and no faster than than the evo, certainly lack the aural drama with stock pipes.

Also test rode a BMW S1000R sport last week, impressed with the explosive performance, build quality and the planted handling thanks to quick shifter, dynamic damping control and riding modes, shame about the looks but I guess I could live with it with the price.

[Butterfly]

I'm 'new' here having only had my S2R for a year, but I've read this thread with interest.

Everyone has an opinion, especially when a new version of an old favourite appears. When I saw the 821 my first thoughts were, shame it had to be water cooled and why no single sided swing arm!!

Reading everyone else's comments would not have put me off if I had just bought one. The whole point of an owners club is to swap opinions etc. if everyone said how lovely they thought it was, or held back from expressing what they thought then what would be the point?

[Albie]

I'm 'new' here having only had my S2R for a year, but I've read this thread with interest.

Everyone has an opinion, especially when a new version of an old favourite appears. When I saw the 821 my first thoughts were, shame it had to be water cooled and why no single sided swing arm!!

Reading everyone else's comments would not have put me off if I had just bought one. The whole point of an owners club is to swap opinions etc. if everyone said how lovely they thought it was, or held back from expressing what they thought then what would be the point?

Proof is in the riding. Its not always good to judge unless
1/ seen in the flesh
2/ actually ridden one

I cannot wait to try. But rumours could put me off.:mand:

[Dirty]

Proof is in the riding. Its not always good to judge unless
1/ seen in the flesh
2/ actually ridden one

I cannot wait to try. But rumours could put me off.:mand:

Nah, it's always good to judge. You just have to be aware what you are judging on, ie, I haven't seen one in the flesh but they look good/ok/crap in pics.

I haven't driven it but I think this years Mercedes F1 car is the best of the field.....

If I could afford a GT3 I'd have one in a heartbeat. Everyone says they are fantastic.

[Albie]

Nah, it's always good to judge. You just have to be aware what you are judging on, ie, I haven't seen one in the flesh but they look good/ok/crap in pics.

I haven't driven it but I think this years Mercedes F1 car is the best of the field.....

If I could afford a GT3 I'd have one in a heartbeat. Everyone says they are fantastic.

yes but your only judging an opinion not the real thing ;)
Mercedes F1 car is a proven given.
GT3 is a proven given but someone might have a hatred of Porsche or only accepts the original 911 is a proper Porsche ie Clarkson.

Norton race bike not really a Norton wrong style engine . Engines not Norton but chassis is. I love it but unreliable great looking bike. Wouldn't buy one of them

It continues.... lol

[Dirty]

yes but your only judging an opinion not the real thing ;)
Mercedes F1 car is a proven given.
GT3 is a proven given but someone might have a hatred of Porsche or only accepts the original 911 is a proper Porsche ie Clarkson.

Norton race bike not really a Norton wrong style engine . Engines not Norton but chassis is. I love it but unreliable great looking bike. Wouldn't buy one of them

It continues.... lol

You are not judging an opinion. You are making an opinion based on the knowledge available. Ex, how do you know it's a given, you've never driven the Mercedes F1 W05?

Of course it is as valid as any similar opinion. Fact is only Nico and Lewis have driven it (don't think they've let Sam or Jazeman yet) so we already know it's an opinion without 1st hand experience.

For less celebrated machinery that someone may or may not have tried out it's best to flag the fact when voicing it of course but we can't only be expected to have opinions on stuff we have experienced first hand.

[Albie]

Oh I give up. All ducatis are ****e then I really don't see the point of it anymore.

[pompone]

When judging style you're always giving an opinion. And in this thread we're mainly judging style.
Even when making judgements based on actual factual experience you're merely giving an opinion. Ie. Some people might like the 820 engine. While I find it a gutless piece if crap.
In other news we're already on page 6 an Godwin's law has failed to materialise.

[Dirty]

When judging style you're always giving an opinion. And in this thread we're mainly judging style.
Even when making judgements based on actual factual experience you're merely giving an opinion. Ie. Some people might like the 820 engine. While I find it a gutless piece if crap.
In other news we're already on page 6 an Godwin's law has failed to materialise.

Dammit we can't even agree on that, it's page 3 for me. Best page in my book though 'Albie, 19, Kent, thinks all Ducati's are ****e' :)

Does Godwin's Law apply if the accusation is based on Il Duce rather than the Fuhrer? :mand:

[uksurfer]

Oh I give up. All ducatis are ****e then I really don't see the point of it anymore.

Apart from mine and yours :)

[Albie]

Apart from mine and yours :)

No mine too. They all are by opinion. Yamaha are great though its a proven ;):running::running::running:

[Dirty]

No mine too. They all are by opinion.

Bizarrely enough you are technically correct. For anything that exists there will be someone that thinks its ****e. Where you seem confused is that the fact of an opinion does not make it so.

As the old saying goes, opinions are like a**eholes, everyone has one :)

[Rowly]

They come in red, nuff said.

[Albie]

They come in red, nuff said.

I have that even in plastic bits

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/ukmonster/Albies%20Monster/IMG_8736.jpg (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/ukmonster/media/Albies%20Monster/IMG_8736.jpg.html)

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/ukmonster/Albies%20Monster/IMG_8737.jpg (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/ukmonster/media/Albies%20Monster/IMG_8737.jpg.html)

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/ukmonster/Albies%20Monster/IMG_8739.jpg (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/ukmonster/media/Albies%20Monster/IMG_8739.jpg.html)

[Rowly]

Monster in Top 5 modern bikes
http://www.bikeexif.com/top-5-modern-motorcycles

[DrD]

But I prefer the one under the 1200S:
http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/radical-ducati-monster-625x416.jpg

[Dirty]

But I prefer the one under the 1200S:
http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/radical-ducati-monster-625x416.jpg

Bloody ell DrD, I only just put the popcorn away! :chuckle:

[steeevvvooo]

Floats my boat!
Very reasonably priced for the spec/performance, I do like the styling of the 1200, and available in black!

+1

A black one is on my wish list and I think it seems cracking value as well

[Albie]

+1

A black one is on my wish list and I think it seems cracking value as well

white for me I reckon.

[steeevvvooo]

white for me I reckon.

That was a given considering your s4! ;)

I've generally, with some exceptions, had red Ducatis... But... I think that black just suits the new monster. Maybe it's because black is less shouty and draws less attention to the entanglement below the tank... Maybe it's just because it looks bad ass! :mand:

[uksurfer]

red with black frame, they're the fastest you know

[Albie]

red with black frame, they're the fastest you know

I have red with black frame too.:biggrin:

[Grumpy]

white for me I reckon.

Did you sit at the front of the class!!! :thumbsup::D

[Albie]

Did you sit at the front of the class!!! :thumbsup::D

Only if made. Generally not but never at the back.:p

[916Strada]

I ordered the 821 Dark the day after it was announced, via Pro Twins.
Just waiting for a delivery window now :flag:

I was originally close to ordering the 1200S, but that would mean selling the 916.
I can now have two Ducati, for the price of one!!

I test rode the Hyperstrada a few months ago, so I know I like the 821, plus I loved the riding style of the 1200, so hopefully I won't be disappointed.

[Lucati]

Shame the 821 loses the single sided swing arm of my 796. Looks alright, think I might go for a super bike next.