Poor low speed running

[Jay]

So continues the saga of my bike... if it is not running properly soon I will need therapy! Thanks to Alan for the help so-far!! And of course all those who fed me info today as well...

To see the initial problem see this thread:
http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4819&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

...Basics could be described as: low speed acceleration, pull off and idle problems. A loss of power when revving from idle/accelerating under even a small engine load from 1k-3k revs. Which will usually suddenly pick up and I'll shoot off. It is not always as predictable as that. I can sometimes give a bit clutch, keep the revs up and she'll be okay round a bend or roundabout. Bit of misfiring/backfiring here and there as well

One extra point I did not mention as I totally forgot that it happened (duh!). When I installed the new Tacho/Speedo unit, when I first tried to fire the bike up, the electrics went dead. Checked fuses and all were okay. Re-connected indicators, Tacho unit, front light etc again, and then electrics were back on and I was able to start her.

New observations:
Took the bike through London this time, and it is also having trouble at higher revs, around 4k, something I hadn't had a chance to try out properly yet, but there you go. She's only any good at a good constant speed, or at keeping the revs high and engine real 'torquey' while riding the twisties!

When it idles, and I give a slight bit of throttle, to a constant rev around 1.3k, the revs fluctuate up and down very slightly, like an indicator almost, and then falls. Sometimes will do this in an almost constant cycle.

Things that have been checked:
Disconnected Tacho, no improvement.
Drained Float Bowls - no improvement
Tried Pro FST in Fuel - no improvement (carb icing does not seem to be the problem here)
Diaphragms seem fine (no ruptures or splits)
Breather hoses seem fine
Left-hand carb had a bit of fuel in the diaphragm section when Alan checked it.
Exhaust Pipes: Right-hand side seems to be running colder than the left when idling. I think someone suggested the one cylinder was not firing consistently while idling. And I suspect subsequently when pulling off or accelerating around town from low speeds.
Checked resistance on Ignition HT coils: Primary seems fine on both coils, secondary does not give an accurate reading on either, reading shooting all over the place, so will try this again tomorrow.

So will it be a carb dismantling session (scary biscuits!!) or will it be the electrics/coils? I'm sure I can think of a suitable prize for the winner!

Well there you go. If anyone has had a similar problem would be good to hear what you did.

Ta ever so!

J

[Andy S]

Hello Jay

I was down at the pub today, You were telling about all the things you have tried to fix your running prob's

Well I looked in my achives...:rolleyes:

and these may help??:confused: :bunny:

"Hi Kev,

No problems - the bike was starting to give me problems in the lower rev
range (coughing and spluttering)- discussed it with a bike buddy of mine who
said it wouldn't hurt to check the plugs, which I did, the caps were plastic
so he told be to get rid of those too and change for NGK ceramic ones, which
are 100% water proof, and as we all know Ducati's and water do not mix. Hey
presto, more power, better starting : o )))

Happy bike and even happier rider

Angie"

SO IT COULD BE DUFF PLUG CAP? OR..

"Just wondering how many people (with carbs of course) suffer with carb icing, and if so at what temperature does it kick in (in degrees celsius please). Mine was less than 10 oC. And if you had a dynojet kit fitted (including k&n filter) did it make it worse. It did with mine. I had to warm it up for approx' 5 minutes before riding off.

Any info greatly appreciated.

Paul

Paul Waite"

YE 'OLD CARB ICING?? THOUGH PROBERLY NOT

GOOD LUCK ANDY S

[spacemonkey]

More thoughts...
Check the wire connectors going into the ignition module boxes. I had all sorts of trouble which turned out to be broken wires as it enters the terminal connector, and it wasn't visually obvious until it finally fell out...
Another thought, my car occasionally does the same due to an intermittant EFi fault somewhere, and it goes into 'get you home safely' mode. This means it runs rich and won't run past 4500rpm. Anyway, the point is when it does this it behaves exactly as you describe. Me thinks you are running rich for some reason, though i don't know why. Maybe a run on a dyno with a decent operator?

[nik_the_brief]

It sounds like the symptoms that mine has when the carbs start to ice up. It's usually fine for the first couple of miles but after that it becomes a pig around town.

Stopping for a few minutes lets the heat from the engine defrost them enough. Give it a try. Stop in a garage when it's playing up, leave the ignition off for five minutes then start her up again. If feverything runs fine then it's likely to just be the carbs icing up. I live down it Kent so I have similar weather to you to contend with and mines been playing up, this morning for instance.

The humidity is also an issue, cold damp mornings are more likely to cause problems that cold, sharp ones.

I have found that it's about 5 degrees C or less that mine starts to play up.

[Mrs Soup]

Jay

Has anyone checked the set up on your carbs?

A combination of badly set up carbs and icing gave me similar symptoms a couple of years ago.

In fact mine's doing something similar at the moment to the extent that it would not idle at all this morning, pick up was poor, everything was lumpy and lots of pops and bangs on the overrun. Carb icing on steroids!!!!

Anyone know where I can get the setup checked nearby? ie in my lunch hour?

I know with mine once it starts to play up and the plugs get a bit fouled everything tends to go downhill......

Love the clocks BTW

[Jay]

Ta for comments all. Howdy Andy, it occured to me it sounded like I didn't remember your name when I asked what you called yourself on the site on Sunday. I did know your name honest :D (But I am known for my appauling memory with names, it has to be said!).

I think on Sunday we had eliminated Carb icing as it does not get better or worse under different circumstances, it's a consistant problem under the conditions above. I haven't had the carbs checked for balance, could this be caused by a knock/spill? The bike did fall quite spectacularily, even if it was at a real low speed.

Keep coming, all good ideas ta!

Haven't had a chance to check HT Coils again yet, but apparently they need to be properly checked by a dealer (according to Haynes they 'special' diagnostic equipment?). Will check those connectors while I'm about it.

And as for those clocks, I go off em, and then like em and then off em again, depends on whether I'm in a retro mood or not. They are a bit of an arse to cram in behind the screen and headlamp tho, I tell thee!

[gary tompkins]

Jay,

As I said on Sunday my money is on crap in one of the idle jets or some other carb related gremlin. Not sure if Alan managed a complete swap to that spare set of carbs to eliminate this possiblity, if not my bet still stands. Hope you get it sorted soon mate ;)

[Gil1696]

My 94 600 was giving me loadsa jip like this:

Revs and power seemed fine above a certain rev range.
Did not idle very well.
Back fired a lot and was a nightmare to start from cold.
Carbs would not balance.

I too sought the wisdom of the great ones here and they gave some good advice. I followed the lot but didn't have much success.
I tried this......(I too didn't want to strip the carbs)
If you haven't done a compression check yet, then do one ASAP.
It might be that your shims are as knackered as a tw*t (as they say in the trade.)
It may be that the side of the engine that is cold is not firing because there is little or no compression of fuel. The problem with my bike was that the exhaust port shim was worn and wasn't allowing the valve to close fully (starting to make sense now?)
Shims are known to be very tight on these bikes.
Let us know how you get on.
Gil

[Jay]

Oh yeah thanks for reminding me, we were going to do a compression check. Where can I get one of those instrument thingies?

Didn't change carbs over so your bet is duly noted!!

Still contemplating prize, my first thought was a signed picture of my bike, in a tasteful frame. Anyway, it's just a thought :D (Somebody chop my hands off, typing too much cr*p!)

[spacemonkey]

I've got one... but i haven't got the adapter to fit the Monster! If you wanna buy the adapter (ask a grown up to tell you the size) to fit the compression tester (it's the brand that Halfords stock for all their testing equipment. Colortune I think?) Then you can use mine-I seem to remember you are somewhere near me. I'm Highbury looking over the Arsenal ground. I'll even buy the adapter off you if you don't want it...

[Pedro]

Hi Jay

just a quick thought - I seem to recall that one of my old tin tops ran roughly at idles and low speeds and after a lot of buggering around, I found the HT leads had developed "high resistance" that caused the spark to fail at low revs. When revs were high, it seemed to over come this resistance.

For the sake of a few quid, it might be worth slinging some new ones on there with new caps as well.

Hope this helps

Ped

[spacemonkey]

I wonder if shoving a rodent up your nose, and dancing around a maypole might help? Now it's the Year of the Cheeky Monkey you could try one of them instead - it worked for me when my lawn mower went poop ;)

[Jay]

Cheers both, I'm still trying to get round tp checking the resistance and the compression, hopefully this morning. I went to Halfords near me (Greenwich) and they didn't have an adapter, well actually what I got was a blank stare:

Assistant: "An adapter mate? What for?"
Jay: "To stick up your a*se' you fool!".

So anyway, my kind garage that does my car lent me a push in system which isn't ideal but will have to do. Secretly I'm hoping it is something as simple as HT leads, but something tells me, the 'powers that be' want me to dismantle my entire bike! And it'll be the carbs after all, which has resulted in buggered rings etc :rolleyes:

[Jay]

Arse!

Compression is about 155psi on front cylinder and 160psi on top one. So tis not too far out from the 150 recommended, And the engine wasn't really as warm as it should have been cos I didn't manage to get out and ride it to proper temp.

Resistance on HT Coils and leads seem fine.

I've had enough, it't not fun anymore, I want to ride my bike!!

[spacemonkey]

That sounds ok...

I still vote for the carbs needing setting up on a dyno with whichever pipes you are gonna use all the time.

Failing that I have 4 baby guinea pigs for some olfactory stimulation and dancing?

[Jay]

Yup, carbs it probably is.. sigh... a visit to a workshop me thinks... tis what most people reckon

[gary tompkins]

My bets looking better all the time ;)

[Jay]

Tis isn't it!

Start re-arranging that mantelpiece! :D

[JR]

Jay,
Have you drained the fuel tank or are you running on a constant "top up", as draining the carbs will not help if the fault is in the bottom of the fuel tank.
Try running the bike in the dark, and check the wiring, often you can see the odd spark/flash on cables/joints/relays that have cracked or are suffering corrosion.
Dont despair, faults are part of your (our) learning curve - you WILL find a solution.


JR

[spacemonkey]

...yeah, the week before you sell it!!!! Well that's what always happens to me...

[Jay]

Solution

T'was all down to those darn new DP clocks I got. In the catalogue they say up to 2000 but really they meant 'up to 1998', olive oil makes these italians daft!

The clocks have a sidestand warning light but this circuit was void due to the 2000 models having a different circuit which doesn't allow you to start the bike while the stand is down, sooooo.. the up shot is, the one cylinder was not firing cos it being starved off a decent spark due to the electrics being wonkey (technical term that, i'm told).

Thanks to all those that gave their input especially AK who took bits apart trying to see what was what. No prizes this time Gary T, but they also thought it may be carbs, but they stripped them and they were perfecto!

Hooray, I'm getting her back tomorrow!!!! Vrooooom!!

[gary tompkins]

Glad you got it sorted Jay - looks like I missed out on that free pint though :(

[Jay]

It wasn't a pint you missed out on, I'll get you one of those next time anyway, it was a signed photograph of my bike (or me if you were real lucky), in a nice tastefuil frame!!

Bet you're gutted!

[gary tompkins]

Funnily enough I'm not :p

[Jay]

Gary, was meant to ask you, but forgot... your high level Sils, which I have as well, do they movie about a bit?

I think yours were bolted to your rearsets as well, but I was told that small flange bends under stress anyway. I'm having trouble with the clearance especially on the left hand side with the chain guard on an after-market rear-hugger. Had problems on the Swinging-arm as well, so put spacers in, but it has little difference really as the pipes tend to move a bit still.

The connection I have for the connector pipes is a dodgy clamp type afair with a screw that tightens the connector pipes round the pipes to the cans. I think yours is the type that has a spring clamp pulling the pipe into the connector pipe.

Any problems on yours, any solutions?

[gary tompkins]

Jay,

My downpipes are secured to the footrest hangers. The bolt goes through the tab brackets into the redundant heel guard mounting hole.

The cans do shift sometimes - mainly on really bumpy lanes when the r/h side can drops a bit. The problem is caused by the 'p' shaped bracket wrapped around the seat rail twisting, but it's already done up as tight as possible. I maybe able to solve this by packing the bracket out with a thin rubber strip to improve it's grip.

Oh - and the joint on the downpipe is held together by a spring :)

[gary tompkins]

Jay,

My down pipes do fix to the back of the footrest hangers via the welded tab bracket, the bolt goes into one of the redundant heel guard holes.

The cans do shift a bit sometimes, mainly the r/h side one which drops a bit on bumpy roads. The problem is the 'p' shaped mounting bracket wrapped around the seat rails is already done up as light as it will go. May be able to improve matters by packing or lining the bracket with rubber or similar to stop it twisting.

Oh - and yes the joint on my downpipes does pull togeter with a spring :)

[Jay]

Cheers Gary, the chappie that sorted the electrics out for me, sorted the pipes as well. Feel muh safer now I know they won't flying off!

[brixtonjacks]

Hi Jay

Glad to hear your probs finally been sorted out! You must be well happy?
I haven't been on here for a while and thought I'd come and check if you'd got it sorted, hurrah! :D

I'm finally back on mine and am defo not selling it now. Bring on the summer, I feel a trip to Box Hill coming on and then maybe on to Brighton...... :cool:

[Jay]

Some nice routes to Brghton from London. Just let me know when you shoot off.

My presence in the UK is a bit erratic, but I'm up for a ride almost always, rain or shine.