Featherbed Ducati

[Dookbob]

I,m thinking of putting an M600 engine into a featherbed frame, has anyone done this before. I would appreciate any info that is available, even if its only to tell me that it is a definite No No. The only two issues that spring to mind at the moment are the engine mounting design, and the sprocket alignment. I await any gems of wisdom that I hope are forthcoming.

[cactus]

Don't know that this is a gem of wisdom, but surely you should be fitting an engine with some umph, you need something decent to grace such a venerable old frame. How's about going for a 900.

[Dookbob]

Well yes, I take your point, but I want to be able to stop it too, and I have a nice M600 engine sitting in my garage just asking for it.

[Dukedesmo]

Don't know that this is a gem of wisdom, but surely you should be fitting an engine with some umph, you need something decent to grace such a venerable old frame. How's about going for a 900.

An 800 might overwhelm it!

I know a 600 is no powerhouse but it probably puts out more than any Norton ever did, my Dad used to race a Manx 500 but they only put out around 50hp on a good day...

[utopia]

Well, this might be daft(er), and I can see why a featherbed would be iconic, but my spontaneous thought was .....why not use a Commando frame ?
Immediate possible benefits would be that, to all intents and purposes, the commando had the same, swingarm mounted off the back of the engine set-up, albeit using engine plates and the isolastic mounts. At first sight, this seems like it might simplify things.
And a nice beefy spine to stiffen things up.
I haven't thought it through at all though ...there are probably loads of good reasons why not to do it (a few of which are already springing to mind, eg the aforementioned beefy spine might be in the way of the rear cylinder), but food for thought maybe ?

On the other hand, the trellis is so perfect for the monster engine that it almost seems like a lost cause to try anything else ....but its an interesting notion nevertheless. I'm intrigued.

[gary tompkins]

I've seen lots of V-twins shoe horned into featherbeds, but they are usually narrower angle units like JAP, Harley or Vincent HRD lumps. The big problem with the L-twin Ducati layout is the front cylinder position will clash with down tubes. You would probably need to loose the down tubes or at least modify them to allow the engine to sit in the frame.

http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/Custom/hmr-norvin.jpg

A hybrid using something like this may work...

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/waza57/RedDuc2.jpg

[BluprintZ]

Not sure that i see the point really, unless of course you just want a project bike.
I've had a few featherbed framed bikes over the years, both slimline and wideline and of course they were the frames to have if you were building a cafe racer, Tribsa, Norbsa, Triton, et al.
I still have a Norton Dommie 500, that i've had for 40 years, although that is a garden gate framed machine but it still handles damn well for it's age.
The featherbed was a brilliant frame in it's day but to be honest, my M900 was a much better handling bike.
To each their own of course, anything (well nearly anything) can be put together if you have the determination to do it.

G ; )

[bluestoesonnose]

Can't see there being an issue with it, they put 1200cc sportster motors in them. I think I'd go with a Degens swinging arm and some monster forks.

Tallon could do you some hubs so you can keep the spoke wheels (if you want).

I'm guessing the frame rail's would need "easing" to get the motor in, I'm sure from memory this has been done, again by our friend Dave Degens, well worth talking to him

[hhmunro]

It would be an interesting project, and a fine looking bike, but the main reason for people using the Featherbed in projects was because it out-handled the competition, the handling and braking of a monster would out perform it every time.
Did toy with the idea of putting a Ducati Single engine in one, but they handled so well, (for their brief moments out of the workshop) why would you?
I did have a T110-engined, BSA RRT2 gear-boxed, Wideline Triton, and that was worthy bike, for it's time.
I also put a Hillman Imp engine into a Featherbed frame,(that was fun to kick start...) and then had a 3-pot Saab two stroke engine in one too, but to be fair I think I mostly did it to pi55 off the purists in the Norton Owners Club...
thought they were going to lynch me...
they were fun to ride though...

[Dookbob]

Well thanks for the positive responses, food for thought, especially the L cylinder configuration thingy getting in the way of the front down tubes. I will have to take another long hard look at this obviously. Thanks for the pics. ( worth a thousand words )

[Dukedesmo]

Can't see there being an issue with it, they put 1200cc sportster motors in them.

But the HD motor probably makes less power than an M600 - weighs more though... :biggrin:

[DrD]

Tricked up 600 motor set up like that bevel in the image would make for good b-road scratcher
- what I used my Pantah for

[Mark Taylor]

But the HD motor probably makes less power than an M600 - weighs more though... :biggrin:
:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle: Nice one Tim - made me laugh out loud, overweight & underpowered, that'll be a HD

[popelli]

But the HD motor probably makes less power than an M600 - weighs more though... :biggrin:

unfortunately the dynos say otherwise, have an old iron head sporty and on the dyno it puts out more torque than a 900 ducati engine

The ducati does have more horse power but only because it can rev a lot higher

[Pomp1]

unfortunately the dynos say otherwise, have an old iron head sporty and on the dyno it puts out more torque than a 900 ducati engine

The ducati does have more horse power but only because it can rev a lot higher

How much more torque? where? And what't the cc? (or cubic inches ;) ):rolleyes:

[popelli]

about 10% more torque and it kicks in a lot lower in the rev range

[fireman sam]

Hi thought of this idea myself if you google NORCATI you will see some fine examples
My thoughts were that a featherbed frame handles very well,
But the Ducati frame is also superb but do what your heart tells you because at the end of the day .Dare to be different.
Your other options could be another frame.
A book I would recommend is MOTORCYCLE ROAD & RACING CHASSIS
by Keith Nokes www.velocebooks.com

Good luck

[maxxjod]

Just a thought, could you not roll the engine backwards to point the front cylinder upwards? Ducati engines were used like that in cagiva elephants, would make it a bit different and avoid the need to spread the frame rails at the front.

[He11cat]

Do it :) :) ..
No don't put a tractor engine in it !!!!

[gary tompkins]

The old 'dog slow' HD argument is a bit lame these days when you take Buell's into consideration.

This turbocharged XB1200 eventually went onto produce 187bhp with a little more tuning on the dyno.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SL_D3aMK3E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeKRKXfkVT0

[Dirty]

The old 'dog slow' HD argument is a bit lame these days when you take Buell's into consideration.

This turbocharged XB1200 eventually went onto produce 187bhp with a little more tuning on the dyno.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SL_D3aMK3E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeKRKXfkVT0

Mmmmmm nice noises. Love Buells. Stupid decision to close them down..

[Dukedesmo]

Just a thought, could you not roll the engine backwards to point the front cylinder upwards? Ducati engines were used like that in cagiva elephants, would make it a bit different and avoid the need to spread the frame rails at the front.

Just don't tilt it too far as the oil pump pickup is near the front...

[bluestoesonnose]

Dirty, I thought Buell were going again with a version of the KTM / Rotax motor?

[Dirty]

Dirty, I thought Buell were going again with a version of the KTM / Rotax motor?

Same but different (http://www.erikbuellracing.com/motorcycles/1190rs/) and $40,000

[bluestoesonnose]

Still a real Buel though

[gary tompkins]

Purists would say the classic 1200cc tubeframe bikes are the last of the true Buells

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV1JJNRVa1w

[bluestoesonnose]

Like saying a 900SS or a 900SD are the last of the real Ducati's and the rot set in with the Pantah and Paso's

[utopia]

Well I'm certainly pleased to hear that Erik Buell is back building bikes again.
A proper, free thinking bike designer, cruelly (and inadvisedly imo) let down by Harley Davidson corporate policy.
Welcome back, Erik (even if your prices are ridiculously high now).

[Dookbob]

I just took a look at the Norcati web site ( my thanks to Fireman Sam from my home town )
And the M600 drops into the featherbed as nice as you like.

[utopia]

Hmmmmm.
The words "as nice as you like" betray a certain glint in the eye there, Dook.

[bluestoesonnose]

Could always make it look like a Britten....

[Quantox]

.....there is a Pantah engined wideline featherbed. It turns up at our South Lakes Mountain Weekend at the end of September every year. Nice and loud and looks good but I don't know who owns it. Must check the photo library and see if I've taken any shots of it.

It looked an easy fit because of the long length of the engine gearbox bay on the featherbed. The Commando frame is much tighter.

Cheers

Q

[Dookbob]

Hmmmmm.
The words "as nice as you like" betray a certain glint in the eye there, Dook.

Yeah, exactly, you know how it is when an idea just won't go away. My missus refers to " that glint in the eye " as impending lunacy.