French speeding fine update

[SunEye]

When I arrived back from France on Friday night I discovered a letter from France in amongst the other post. Initially thinking that I can been caught speeding by a camera somewhere on my recent trip I was a bit anxious, however when I opened the letter it was slightly worse than that.

In October I was caught speeding and paid a €425 fine (153kph in a 70kph zone - an empty piece of dual carriageway with a variable speed limit that had been lowered on one section just to catch people speeding). They initially wanted €750, but as I couldn't get that much out of the cash machine for them they accepted €425 after the arresting gendarme discussed the matter with the local procureur (UK magistrate). I was told that would be the end of the matter although there was a court date in November which I was told that I did not need to attend as all that was to do was to officially file the papers with the court.

The letter that I got on Friday was a request by the French authorities for a further €97 in relation to the speeding offence. It would appear that at the court hearing in November they decided that my fine should be €522 and so I now owe them €97 which they want now, six months after the court date.

I have set my French legal team onto this (my girlfriend, but that's good enough) to fully explain to me the reasoning behind the letter and what my possibilities for appeal or non-payment are.

For most UK residents I would suggest filing this sort of letter in the bin. However as I plan to live in France from next year I possibly can't get away with an unpaid speeding fine (unless I never offend again and change the registration of my bike). Once I know the exact details I will reply in writing to the French authorities. As they so kindly wrote to me in their language I will do likewise and reply in English - this worked for me several years ago when I successfully argued against a parking ticket for my girlfriend by claiming that I was driving the car and that the parking restriction signage was unclear to visitors to the town (to be honest it was unclear to my girlfriend and she is French and lived in the town).

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

[LVC]

You were extremely lucky to have got only a speeding fine at over double the limit - had you had a French license it would have been retained by the gendarmes on site, you would have then had to arrange someone else to remove your bike and then waited for a letter announcing the amount of fine and duration of the ban.

Dual carriageway limits (empty or not) are at most 130kph over here and not 153kph and unless it was an Autoroute it was probably a max 110kph so 153kph is way over already.

If I were you I'd pay up and keep the girlfriend and her French address as far away from the gendarmes as possible as if they start to think that you have a semi-permanent address in France then things may get even more complicated for you.

If you don't like the fines then don't speed - simples.

[SunEye]

I know that I was very lucky to receive just a fine. Had I been able to obtain the full €750 they initially wanted I would have given that to them. Unfortunately the card readers that the Gendarmerie have only accept French bank cards so I was limited to how much I could get from a cash point because that was the only option given to me to pay the fine. I could have even done a direct transfer of the funds from my bank account or credit card had I been given the opportunity to do so.

I am only using my girlfriend for translation services and advice on how best to proceed with the matter based upon the content of the letter I was sent and the documentation that I have from my arrest. Her name and address will not be brought into this matter.

I do not have a semi-permanent address in France. I do not even have any of my possessions in France.

I fully accept that I was speeding on an empty stretch of road trying to make up some time lost earlier in my 250 mile ride (due to some very sudden and unexpected torrential rain) in order to catch my ferry home. Anybody who has ridden with me will know that I do not tend to ride with excessive speed - on any rides with friends I am always the slowest, even my friend on his Triumph Rocket III rides faster than I do, even on twisty roads. Having held a driving licence for 27 years and ridden and driven many hundreds of thousands of miles and only ever having been caught speeding once in that time (when I was late for work) may be some indication of the prudence that I usually execute when driving and riding.

The purpose of my post was not to promote speeding or to complain about a fine. It was to show others that if you are caught speeding in France the on the spot fine may not be the end of the matter, even if you are told that it is and the paperwork you are given says that it is.

[LVC]

Fair enough ;)

The problem with the French roads is that they are usually in great condition, very empty and extremely enticing to solicit speeding....this the Gendarmes know as much as the other users and they "cash" in on this whenever possible. "Temporary" speed limits are just one of the ways, they are now installing "average" speed cameras to avoid the "brake for the radar and then speed up" scenario.

I get stopped a lot mainly due to the style of cars I drive (Subaru Impreza WRX and rally replicas) and the bikes which are mostly very modified but it's only ever been once in 12 years of being over here, for speeding. It's not that I don't speed it's just that it's rarely excessive and never on "obvious" roads for traps. I get my speed kicks on water now with my jetskis.

Thanks to my involvement the other week a 70+ year old man was arrested for drink driving - he couldn't even see the dash let alone the cars coming towards him as he wandered over the solid white line onto the other lane. In discussing with the bike cops that I flagged down and later pulled him, they accept up to 20kph over the limit on 90kph roads but anything more than that and they'll stop and fine you. They were, on the other hand, extremely grateful for my involvement with removing this dangerous (for himself and others) road user off the road - he won't be getting his license back.

IMHO accept and pay the 95€.

[Black Bob]

I'll second that piece of advice. Think of it not as an extra fine, but a notional partial refund of the original 750 euro fine. Frankly, I am amazed that they accepted the lower amount in the first place.

This happened to me a few years ago on a motoway. Exactly the same scenario, running late for the ferry, never usually speed on main routes, blah blah blah. They know exactly where to lay their traps. Was relieved of passort and license by a gendarme brandish a scary looking gun, escorted to the nearest gendarmerie, then driven by car to the nearest ATM. Instant ban from riding in France and a 750 euro fine. The hearing a few months later resulted in a lower figure for the fine and I received a cheque in the post for a few hundred euros.

Needless to say, I now never go over 85mph on a motorway in France, and if I look like I'm going to miss the ferry I book a Eurotunnel. Stay off the main routes if you're thinking of going over the limit by more than 30kmh, and if you're the sort that regularly wanders 50km/h over the limit, make sure you have 2 cashcards on you and a plan to get home with your bike on the back of a recovery vehicle - the ban will extend to the ticket booth at the French port.

Still love the place though!

:)

[Pomp1]

Take the 95 euros fine. I still think you got away with it OK, considering you're 230 euros less than the original fine for more than twice the posted speed limit etc. etc. Send it to them in pound if you really want to be awkward. ;)
Ona adifferent note what's currently the max speed limit on the autoroute? going through soon and don't want to get caught out..

[Dukedesmo]

I had a similar situation; got caught at 201kmh on the AutoRoute and had to pay a large fine but they let me go. I though that was the end of it as I had paid the requested amount (didn't really have any other options) but around 3 months later I got a request through the post for some more, which I 'filed' and never heard any more about it.

I have been back to France several times with no problem, although not been stopped since but I don't think Interpol are after me... :o

[LVC]

Ona adifferent note what's currently the max speed limit on the autoroute? going through soon and don't want to get caught out..

130kph if it's dry and 110kph if it's raining.

I had a similar situation; got caught at 201kmh on the AutoRoute and had to pay a large fine but they let me go. I though that was the end of it as I had paid the requested amount (didn't really have any other options) but around 3 months later I got a request through the post for some more, which I 'filed' and never heard any more about it.

I have been back to France several times with no problem, although not been stopped since but I don't think Interpol are after me... :o

They'll have noted your reg and driving license number so if you get stopped again on either the same bike/car or with the same driving license number (don't think this changes even if you apply for a new license) then expect to get slapped with the requested amount and possibly a "majoration" (interest) - if they want to get difficult then they can legally take it further but won't chase you in the UK for it. So make sure you don't get stopped for anything whilst over here.

Edit: Just asked a pal of mine (Gendarme) and you have 15 days to pay a fine, failure to pay increase the amount. For example a 90€ fine then becomes 135€ after 15 days and then after 45 days it's 375€. He confirmed that the license number of the driver is recorded and when they do a "papers" check (car, insurance, license and passport) they do get notified of outstanding fines etc. (depending upon when the even was logged as some of the older ones are not up to date on their system).

Also if your caught at 50kph or more over the limit the fine is now 1500 € and suspension of the license for up to 3 years - this is obviously for French license holders but the enforceable amount seems to have been increased.

[nuttynick]

I got caught for 174kph in a 110kph limit. It was a €750 fine, instant 6 month ban, and a court date back in France. I paid the fine, and got a mate to ride my bike back rather than have it impounded. I got the paperwork from the courts a few months later to say my fine had been set at €750. It seems the initial fine is more of a deposit against what the courts will set as they know you're unlikely to return. If I was you I'd pay the fine and not worry every time I went to France. It's not a lot to pay to draw a line under it!

[Dukedesmo]

They'll have noted your reg and driving license number so if you get stopped again on either the same bike/car or with the same driving license number (don't think this changes even if you apply for a new license) then expect to get slapped with the requested amount and possibly a "majoration" (interest) - if they want to get difficult then they can legally take it further but won't chase you in the UK for it. So make sure you don't get stopped for anything whilst over here.


Well I don't have that car anymore and it was a few years back now so I doubt they'll put up too much of a manhunt for IIRC €50.

I like to think that I fought the law and this time the law didn't win... :D

[SunEye]

I got caught for 174kph in a 110kph limit. It was a €750 fine, instant 6 month ban, and a court date back in France. I paid the fine, and got a mate to ride my bike back rather than have it impounded. I got the paperwork from the courts a few months later to say my fine had been set at €750. It seems the initial fine is more of a deposit against what the courts will set as they know you're unlikely to return. If I was you I'd pay the fine and not worry every time I went to France. It's not a lot to pay to draw a line under it!
As far as I can establish from the documents that I have anyone who does not live or work in France could have their vehicle impounded. To avoid that and any further legal proceedings you can pay an on the spot fine. Alternatively to avoid confiscation of your vehicle the public prosecutor can decide that you pay a deposit against the fine which will be decided by a court at a later date.

[LVC]

Well I don't have that car anymore and it was a few years back now so I doubt they'll put up too much of a manhunt for IIRC €50.

I like to think that I fought the law and this time the law didn't win... :D

You'll find that out if/when you next get stopped in France :look:

As far as I can establish from the documents that I have anyone who does not live or work in France could have their vehicle impounded. To avoid that and any further legal proceedings you can pay an on the spot fine. Alternatively to avoid confiscation of your vehicle the public prosecutor can decide that you pay a deposit against the fine which will be decided by a court at a later date.

Yes seems to be the case - we had the Moto GP in Le Mans this weekend and I've lost count of how many bikes were impounded and the owners ending up as pillion for the ride home. So stupid as it was advertised that there were going to be over 900 gendarmes here just for "controles" on bikes and bikers and yet there's always the muppets that think they know better :(

[Dookbob]

This is just the price we have to pay the French because they are still pissed off about our forefathers sinking their ships for three hundred years or so. What they don't seem to realise is that they owe us a debt of gratitude for keeping their ship builders in work all that time. They couldn,t quite keep up though, we were sinking them faster than they could build them.

[Grumpy]

This is just the price we have to pay the French because they are still pissed off about our forefathers sinking their ships for three hundred years or so. What they don't seem to realise is that they owe us a debt of gratitude for keeping their ship builders in work all that time. They couldn,t quite keep up though, we were sinking them faster than they could build them.

Don't mention Waterloo when in France!!

I was travelling along the Route Napoleon several years ago, stopped at a hotel/restaurant for lunch....the owner was a 'Napoleonist'...not impressed with an English reg vehicle/people in his establishment!!

[LVC]

Funnily enough when I mention wars over here the only one they want to talk about is the 100 years war, which technically they didn't win as it ended with an arranged marriage between England and France to stop the bloodshed.

I just try to keep my head down when there's a Rugby or football match between UK and FR - as either way the result is not good for me, lol

[Grumpy]

Funnily enough when I mention wars over here the only one they want to talk about is the 100 years war, which technically they didn't win as it ended with an arranged marriage between England and France to stop the bloodshed.

I just try to keep my head down when there's a Rugby or football match between UK and FR - as either way the result is not good for me, lol

Iv'e found a great way to raise a Frenchmans blood pressure, is to stand in the middle of Napoleons tomb, in Paris, and mention Wellington and Waterloo in a very loud voice!!

[LVC]

Iv'e found a great way to raise a Frenchmans blood pressure, is to stand in the middle of Napoleons tomb, in Paris, and mention Wellington and Waterloo in a very loud voice!!

You'll start another 100 years war :chuckle:

Hey look I found the official French flag ....

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/surrender.gif

[stef]

hey...
watch it !



;-)

[LVC]

You're not really French Stef - Normandy is more like Cornwall than France ;)

[J.P]

Hey look I found the official French flag ....

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/surrender.gif

That, is very funny.

[stef]

You'll start another 100 years war :chuckle:

Hey look I found the official French flag ....

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/surrender.gif

um.. not sure, i think i saw it waved by the brits on a beach in dunkirk a while ago..
difficult to say though, they were trying to swim at the same time as they were waving the flag.

[LVC]

um.. not sure, i think i saw it waved by the brits on a beach in dunkirk a while ago..
difficult to say though, they were trying to swim at the same time as they were waving the flag.

Chapeau bas mec :thumbsup:

See I was right, you aren't French - way too clever of a reply to be French :drunk:

[Dookbob]

There were no white flags at Dunkirk, that was a strategic withdrawal, not a surrender, then we went back big time, to liberate Europe, sometimes wonder why we bothered.

[Grumpy]

There were no white flags at Dunkirk, that was a strategic withdrawal, not a surrender, then we went back big time, to liberate Europe, sometimes wonder why we bothered.

In the words of Basil......don't mention the war!.....any of them!:chuckle::chuckle:

[hhmunro]

A small point, but the only troops to surrender at Dunkirk were in fact, sorry Stef, The French...
The French rear guard...
The British Expeditionary Force left, along with a lot of other Allied troops, including many French,without surrendering. There was some very valiant action by some of the French rear guard, which delayed the Germans and enabled the evacuation...
Now can we go back to the speeding fine story...
My Mate, coming back from the Bol D'Or, was pulled over at silly speeds, said he had no money, so they took his passport and told him to follow them to the bank...
Naturally he just cleared off, and when he got to Dover told Immigration it had been nicked, hungover, partied-out British Guy, obviously, so they believed him and let him through, few years ago mind...

[stef]

A small point, but the only troops to surrender at Dunkirk were in fact, sorry Stef, The French...
The French rear guard...
The British Expeditionary Force left, along with a lot of other Allied troops, including many French,without surrendering. There was some very valiant action by some of the French rear guard, which delayed the Germans and enabled the evacuation...

Apologies...
i mis-translated "debacle" which really means ordely tactical retreat.
;-)
I read a book a while ago by the grand father of an ex gf. who was there (brit). his account was first hand, and not too glorifying for the brits.
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/The-Nomadic-Soldier-by-Cliff-Russell-Paperback-1991-/89767364?_tab=1)
then again, they licked their wounds and came back big time a few years later to kick ass. i should know, i am 20mins from Omaha.

re the fine..
lucky sod.
pay the extra and say thank you.

[LVC]

Now can we go back to the speeding fine story...
My Mate, coming back from the Bol D'Or, was pulled over at silly speeds, said he had no money, so they took his passport and told him to follow them to the bank...
Naturally he just cleared off, and when he got to Dover told Immigration it had been nicked, hungover, partied-out British Guy, obviously, so they believed him and let him through, few years ago mind...

Now that really does take some "balls" to do :yoparty:

[hhmunro]

Now that really does take some "balls" to do :yoparty:

Ironic that his nickname was Chicken...

[LVC]

Just LOL :mand:

[gary tompkins]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/A8yjNbcKkNY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[stef]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/A8yjNbcKkNY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

great minds etc...
I had to stop myself putting that up last night !:chuckle:

[Dookbob]

That's puts the whole thing back into perspective wonderfully.

[SunEye]

The good natured historically based ribbing works both ways.

From 1340 to 1801, with the exception of 11 years the kings and queens of England also assumed the title of King or Queen of France. So as every Englishman knows France is really ours ;)

On the other hand:

France conquered England in 1066. So England is really theirs - even if they wouldn't want it ;)
The most famous English king (other than Henry VIII) was Richard the Lionheart, who was French, lived (and died) in France and unsurprisingly spoke French (as had most of the nobility in England since 1066). During his reign he spent very little time in England.
The Normans, Plantagenets and Yorks who ruled England were French. The Tudors were Welsh, the Stuarts were Scottish and the Hanovers and Windsors are German. So the only English rulers of England since 1066 were the Lancasters (1399-1461) who all married French women.


I accept no responsibilty at all for any sweeping historical generalisations I may have made ;) After all the facts shouldn't get in the way of a bit of teasing.

[Black Bob]

To me, the thing that stands out most when the English have a go at the French.... is that the French really do not seem to give a f*** about what we think of them.

You only have to spend some time over there to see why that might be.