ECU Failure !

[Bikergirl]

I don't know if anyone out there can help......
My Monster 696 (2010) ABS has had a total ecu failure.
I have been told that it will cost approx £1k for a new ecu (plus labour!!).
There are no alternatives showing up on fleabay ....

Does anyone have an alternative suggestion to the very costly Ducati branded replacement ecu?
I have the part number: 28641791A

:cry:

[Albie]

I don't know if anyone out there can help......
My Monster 696 (2010) ABS has had a total ecu failure.
I have been told that it will cost approx £1k for a new ecu (plus labour!!).
There are no alternatives showing up on fleabay ....

Does anyone have an alternative suggestion to the very costly Ducati branded replacement ecu?
I have the part number: 28641791A

:cry:

That's just downright disgraceful. What with yours and J.P's suspension ecu failing after 3 years.

[SunEye]

Yes the Ducati ECUs on their own are very expensive. The price is artificially high. For not much more you can get a Ducati performance ECU and Termis.

Occaisionally they do come up on ebay second hand. Usually from people who have upgraded.

Personally I would suggest some very strong words with Ducati UK who may well take pity on you and have a quiet word with the garage to get the issue sorted for a sensible price. An ECU is designed to last much more than 3 years. For one to fail after such a short amount of time is in my opinion unacceptable.

It may be worth noting that the Sale of Goods Act 1979 is on your side. Your claim would be against the retailer. Goods must be fit for purpose, if not you have the right to have the goods repaired. If you can prove that the fault was not down to ordinary wear and tear or damage you caused, and that the product (or a component) should have lasted longer than it did, then you may have a valid claim.

[utopia]

That's just downright disgraceful. What with yours and J.P's suspension ecu failing after 3 years.


.....which prompts the thought....

One of the claimed advantages of "solid state" electronics (as it was then called) was its inherent reliability, due to lack of moving parts.
And in general, this seems to be true, if the associated electro-mechanical sensors are kept to a sensible minimum.
The other advantage, is that once the method of production is in place, unit production costs are relatively low.
So, in view of these two facts, would it not make sense for bike manufacturers to offer vastly extended guarantees on the central, processing units ?
After all, you've already paid for the technology once, when you bought the bike, and you can presumeably be justified in expecting it to continue to work and live up to its reputation for reliability.
And would it really cost the manufacturers to order an extra 5% or so of the units to hedge against replacement costs, given the production scenario described ?
And would that small cost repay itself in better customer confidence leading to more sales of their super-techno new bikes ?

Sorry, that doesn't help at all though.
I'm sure someone else will be able to suggest an economical option though.
....maybe even offering an upgrade....?

[Nickj]

What you need is a nice reliable carbie 750 ;)

In the meantime I'd be writing to ducati, go for the nice smiley approach for starters.
Then if they don't play nicely ....

Sales of goods act 1979 and supply of goods and services act 1982.
The two most relevant parts are.

For the purposes of the supply of goods and services, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability.

If the above fit then the sale of goods act puts the onus on the supplier to repair or replace.

And no being outside of the warranty period isn't actually the issue because there is the Limitations act which 'covers' you for 6 years. Which may be a good negotiation point.

An ECU should be, like the rubbish quality clock driver motors fitted to the early IE's, a vehicle lifetime unit or a significant proportion of its life cycle. 3 years isn't a life span that any reasonable person would accept as fit for purpose.

Go get them to give you a new ECU, offer to pay for the labour.
Else sneak in a small claims action or get a solicitor to wrote them an officialese letter. Latters probably best

[slob]

Try Avanti Race Parts
info@avantiraceparts.co.uk
0844 567 2 916

[Nickj]

LOL Feeling fractious, rainy day off and unable to get out for a thrash :(

[Bikergirl]

What you need is a nice reliable carbie 750 ;)

In the meantime I'd be writing to ducati, go for the nice smiley approach for starters.
Then if they don't play nicely ....

Sales of goods act 1979 and supply of goods and services act 1982.
The two most relevant parts are.

For the purposes of the supply of goods and services, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability.

If the above fit then the sale of goods act puts the onus on the supplier to repair or replace.

And no being outside of the warranty period isn't actually the issue because there is the Limitations act which 'covers' you for 6 years. Which may be a good negotiation point.

An ECU should be, like the rubbish quality clock driver motors fitted to the early IE's, a vehicle lifetime unit or a significant proportion of its life cycle. 3 years isn't a life span that any reasonable person would accept as fit for purpose.

Go get them to give you a new ECU, offer to pay for the labour.
Else sneak in a small claims action or get a solicitor to wrote them an officialese letter. Latters probably best

Thanks - really helpful.
I have already tried getting Ducati UK to play nice via Snell's - they have said no.
However, there have been some (ecu related)) issues with the bike since I bought it - which have not been adequately dealt with by the dealer from whom I bought the bike....
I wrote a very pointed letter to D.UK and D.Italy last night - will tear it open and re-write part of it with your advice added in.
:thumbsup:

[Bikergirl]

Try Avanti Race Parts
info@avantiraceparts.co.uk
0844 567 2 916

Thanks - will try today

[Nickj]

Thanks - really helpful.
However, there have been some (ecu related)) issues with the bike since I bought it - which have not been adequately dealt with by the dealer from whom I bought the bike....


If you bought it from a dealer and there were issues with the ECU to start with, maybe a fault which they have admitted that is ecu related then the onus is on them to fix it for you. The old caveat emptor attitude should have gone with the sale of goods act but a seller is going to try it on a bit to minimise their expenses and you really can't blame them there. Selling you the bike and it then costing them an ecu wipes out their profit margin.
It was sold as a working bike with no faults or defects but had faults either initially or within a very short time from purchase, you've obviously told them about these as they became apparant to you and in a timely manner.
As it was bought from a dealer then it is really their responsibility to sell you merchantable quality goods, if it wasn't then they either fix it or refund you.
The only get out is if they sold it as is and you agreed to accept it with faults. Even that is a little grey if the fault you have isn't listed as one of the defects.

[Bikergirl]

If you bought it from a dealer and there were issues with the ECU to start with, maybe a fault which they have admitted that is ecu related then the onus is on them to fix it for you. The old caveat emptor attitude should have gone with the sale of goods act but a seller is going to try it on a bit to minimise their expenses and you really can't blame them there. Selling you the bike and it then costing them an ecu wipes out their profit margin.
It was sold as a working bike with no faults or defects but had faults either initially or within a very short time from purchase, you've obviously told them about these as they became apparant to you and in a timely manner.
As it was bought from a dealer then it is really their responsibility to sell you merchantable quality goods, if it wasn't then they either fix it or refund you.
The only get out is if they sold it as is and you agreed to accept it with faults. Even that is a little grey if the fault you have isn't listed as one of the defects.

The letter to Ducati UK & Ducati Italy now runs to 5 pages - including quoting Sale of Goods Act.
I am just hoping that my reasonable quoting of multiple issues since purchase will result in them re-considering their position regarding replacing the ecu.

[Black Bob]

This sort of story makes me very cross. It so obviously shouldn't have gone wrong through normal use and should be replaced at Ducati's expense.

Contrast this attitude with BMW who will replace entire clutch assemblies on 6 year old bikes that are out of warranty if they feel it is a part that wasn't up to scratch in the first place.

If you don't get it resolved, and feel like burning your bike in the middle of Trafalgar Square in front of the biking media, let us know won't you? I'm sure we can have a whip round.

[Bikergirl]

This sort of story makes me very cross. It so obviously shouldn't have gone wrong through normal use and should be replaced at Ducati's expense.

Contrast this attitude with BMW who will replace entire clutch assemblies on 6 year old bikes that are out of warranty if they feel it is a part that wasn't up to scratch in the first place.

If you don't get it resolved, and feel like burning your bike in the middle of Trafalgar Square in front of the biking media, let us know won't you? I'm sure we can have a whip round.
:eek:
:chuckle:

Yes - I am very disappointed. I expected more of Ducati as a premium marque.........

[slob]

Ducati UK have actually got quite a good reputation for helping owners sort out this kind of issue with out of warranty bikes. Instument failures on early injected models for instance. The polite approach often pays off here.

[dunlop0_1]

One or two on ebay US. Don't know if the 696 ecu is coded but Avanti can re flash these sort of things.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-Ducati-Monster-696-OEM-ECU-ECM-Engine-Control-Unit-Module-286-4-170-2A-/140944609751?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20d0f411d7

[Bikergirl]

One or two on ebay US. Don't know if the 696 ecu is coded but Avanti can re flash these sort of things.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-Ducati-Monster-696-OEM-ECU-ECM-Engine-Control-Unit-Module-286-4-170-2A-/140944609751?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20d0f411d7

Thank you - but I have been told by a dealer that it has to be a "696 ABS" ecu..... I am going to contact Antonye at Avanti to check if this is definitely the case.
I am hoping that Ducati UK & Italy read my long letter (!) and agree to replace the ecu.....
:worried:

[Gilps]

If you bought it from a dealer then it is covered under the Sale of Goods Act. It's down to them to fix it. They don't have a choice, it is their obligation, but it may take legal action to get them to see sense.

[BigOz]

I don't think the ECU is coded as it is possible to swap between the STD ecu and a DP one with no issues.

The ABS and non ABS ECUs are physically the same but have different software but I've heard this can be updated/reflashed.

One or two on ebay US. Don't know if the 696 ecu is coded but Avanti can re flash these sort of things.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-Ducati-Monster-696-OEM-ECU-ECM-Engine-Control-Unit-Module-286-4-170-2A-/140944609751?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20d0f411d7

[slob]

I don't know whether Antony (Avanti) can do the new ones or not, but he's repaired faulty U5.9s for me. But always worth asking. I think you'll probably find DP ECUs aren't coded but OEM ones are.

[BigOz]

Some cross flashing information here (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=54340.0)

[Bikergirl]

Some cross flashing information here (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=54340.0)

How can I know whether it could be cross-flashed, or whether the internals are actually fried and I need a totally new ecu?
Will I need to take it back to a main dealer to find this part of info out before I can anything further?

[chris.p]

Also worth having a chat with is John at Track Electronics near Norwich.

Chris.

[BigOz]

I think the advice on getting it sorted by the supplier though the Sale of Goods Act would be my first point of call.

Then pleading with Ducati UK.

Failing that finding someone who can cross flash an ECU simply gives a greater choice of useable 2nd hand ECUs.

The key seems to be the part number on the back.

However note that there are two different ECU models. See partnumber on the back but disregard the revision number.
So as long as it is the same type of ECU it can be flashed with whatever map you want.

If all else fails a set of Termi exhausts with a DP ECU (again there are ABS and non ABS models) would still be a few quid cheaper than a replacement ECU which is nuts!

http://www.motorcycle-exhausts.co.uk/Termignoni_Carbon_Racing_Silencer_Kit_Ducati_Monst er_696_ABS_200813--product--11564.html



How can I know whether it could be cross-flashed, or whether the internals are actually fried and I need a totally new ecu?
Will I need to take it back to a main dealer to find this part of info out before I can anything further?

[Bikergirl]

I think the advice on getting it sorted by the supplier though the Sale of Goods Act would be my first point of call.

Then pleading with Ducati UK.

Failing that finding someone who can cross flash an ECU simply gives a greater choice of useable 2nd hand ECUs.

The key seems to be the part number on the back.

However note that there are two different ECU models. See partnumber on the back but disregard the revision number.
So as long as it is the same type of ECU it can be flashed with whatever map you want.

If all else fails a set of Termi exhausts with a DP ECU (again there are ABS and non ABS models) would still be a few quid cheaper than a replacement ECU which is nuts!

http://www.motorcycle-exhausts.co.uk/Termignoni_Carbon_Racing_Silencer_Kit_Ducati_Monst er_696_ABS_200813--product--11564.html

One of the main dealerships has spoken to D.UK, and they have said 'no' so far. I have written a comprehensive explanation myself now (to D.UK) in the hope that they will agree to replace the ecu.
A main dealer told me that the ecu has to be a 696 + ABS, or it can't be re-flashed.......
That is why I asked question above......
I am hoping to minimise costs, as Monster had a £410 service just 2 months ago........

[BigOz]

Don't forget the contract the Sale of Goods Act applies to is between you and the retailer rather than you and D UK.

I hope it gets sorted soon.

Andy

One of the main dealerships has spoken to D.UK, and they have said 'no' so far. I have written a comprehensive explanation myself now (to D.UK) in the hope that they will agree to replace the ecu.
A main dealer told me that the ecu has to be a 696 + ABS, or it can't be re-flashed.......
That is why I asked question above......
I am hoping to minimise costs, as Monster had a £410 service just 2 months ago........

[Bonzo]

I have a spare ECU but its for an 1100Evo.

Dont think that would be any use to you (unless anyone knows better?)

[jerry]

I picked a brand new DP one up for my S4 off ebeay for £50 a couple of years ago good second hand ones come up regularly

[Bikergirl]

I picked a brand new DP one up for my S4 off ebeay for £50 a couple of years ago good second hand ones come up regularly

It seems that '696 ABS' ecu's are few and far between - plus, apparently, the part number has to be virtually matched in order to re-flash the ecu to my own bike.
:grump:

[Bikergirl]

I have a spare ECU but its for an 1100Evo.

Dont think that would be any use to you (unless anyone knows better?)

Very kind offer, indeed.
According to Avanti and Snell's, it has to be a '696 + ABS' in order for it to work on my bike.
That's Ducati for you ...
:cry:

[StuartJames]

Rosso Corse have had a 696 in bits for ages which might have en ECU you could use. Give them a buzz.

[jerry]

how old is the 696? ecu are usually very reliable

[Bikergirl]

Monster is just 3 years old - last month. I have had what I believe have been problems related to ecu since I owned it, but I am waiting to see what Ducati UK say.
Yes - an ecu should not fail within 3 years - I have been reliably told.

[jerry]

Monster is just 3 years old - last month. I have had what I believe have been problems related to ecu since I owned it, but I am waiting to see what Ducati UK say.
Yes - an ecu should not fail within 3 years - I have been reliably told.

if you have a strong service history of the problems Ducati ought to give some goodwill with this issue ....I hope

[Bikergirl]

UPDATE
Thank you to absolutely everyone on this thread who has offered terrific help and advice.
I am very grateful indeed.
Following a letter I wrote to Ducati UK last week, they have agreed to replace my ecu "as a gesture of goodwill".
Appreciate the support from you guys.

:hail::

[J.P]

Well, well. The power of the people. Glad you got a brilliant solution.

[Albie]

Good news there but I believe its right they should. Lets be honest here they wont be paying out much themselves in cash as to them it will be quids not hundreds they charge us.

[Akita Boy]

That's great news. Well done for persevering!

[Bonzo]

Thats incredible & the 2nd time youve managed to turn some real bad luck into a winner.

You couldnt pm me next weekend's lottery numbers could you Bikergirl? :chuckle:

[Nickj]

That's good, so the bike will be good to go in time for the summer wet season ;)

I find it interesting that both the dealer and ducati UK are calling their obligations under sale of goods (the dealer) and supply of goods and services (both the dealer and ducati uk) a 'goodwill' gesture.

[Dirty]

Yes it's amazing how corporate 'gestures of goodwill' so often follow closely after letters stating their legal obligations!

[jerry]

Bikergirl .......thats super news ,, enjoy your rehatched bike

jerry

[neilo]

Excellent news! That result gives a relatively new monster owner like me some confidence in the brand should something major go wrong with the bike after the warranty expires.

[Albie]

Glad I have no abs or trick suspension and have the original ecu.

[gary tompkins]

Yes there's a lot to be said for techno free bikes

[utopia]

That's great news.
Well done Ducati for making the right decision.
I guess that by calling it goodwill they are avoiding setting a precedent. I can forgive them that.
I wonder how long it will be before manufacturers start to offer upfront extended warranties on the complex, expensive and normally inherently reliable central processing units for their ever more complicated motorcycles.

[Bikergirl]

No way am I giving up on my Monster - long ride down to Italy is planned for next summer, 2014.
:running:
Hopefully, the bike will be fit and back to her best in a month's time.

[scrapps]

Glad Ducati have gone the goodwill route and are sorting it for you.
As Slob said Ducati do not have a bad track record for sorting most of these issues.:thumbsup:
I had some oil pipes changed on a Multi I bought secondhand it was 8yrs old but as they were recalled back in 05/06 they still changed them for me FOC.(2011)
Some times they just need a polite nudge.

[jerry]

be interesting to know how Ducati UK cope with the warping plastic tank issue once 10% gasohol is in regular use in UK ,, in the states some owners have had 4 new tanks and over 25000 have been replaced .......
remember also that ECU that costs punter £600+ probably only cost ducati £100 to make

[Dirty]

be interesting to know how Ducati UK cope with the warping plastic tank issue once 10% gasohol is in regular use in UK ,, in the states some owners have had 4 new tanks and over 25000 have been replaced .......
remember also that ECU that costs punter £600+ probably only cost ducati £100 to make

Probably not even that much, I'd guess at guess at less than £20 if you factor out R&D costs etc.

[Bikergirl]

Ethanol - Negatives
Moving on to the fuel tank. Many older fuel tanks are made using two sheets of pressed mild steel welded together. A sealant is used to ensure a perfect seal (unlike water, petrol has no surface tension and will leak through the tiniest of gaps). Ethanol will react with this sealant releasing it as a gooey substance into the fuel. Instances have been found of fuel tanks that have been efficiently sealed for decades being damaged by Ethanol in petrol. Even the metal itself is not safe. Hydrogen bonding causes Ethanol to be hydroscopic to the extent that it readily absorbs moisture from the air. In a humid country like Britain this equates to a significant amount of water being added to the fuel and the steel (which has now had its protective layer stripped off by the Ethanol) begins to oxidize (rust).

Ferrous metals are not the only ones to be adversely affected by Ethanol. Copper fuel pipes, brass fittings etc are also corroded. Moving parts in fuel pumps (including rubber diaphragms if they have them) are damaged. Fuel filters are rapidly blocked by the residue of all these reactions. Rubber petrol pipes will break down and crack leading to fuel leaks. Carburettors and the jets inside them are also corroded by Ethanol. Ethanol also attacks cork (often used as a gasket in older carburettors). Below is a list of materials known to be damaged by Ethanol…the list is not exhaustive.

[turbohobbit]

Yeah, we get this in the industry in which I work (oil and shipping). It's not pretty. We have to be ultra-alert when shipping Ethanol or ethanol-heavy mog. Happy days.

I presume the later plastic tanks are in a better position to survive?