Serious fuel leak!

[Davidg1230]

Well, not been riding the bike for the past few months as into my running and cycling to work training for a summer of triathlons, so I had only been using the bike probably once a week or less.

Anyway, I've just come back from a weeks holiday and had left the bike for 2 weeks (it lives in the garden under a cover) and it had been very cold and frosty but I needed to get to work one day so used the bike (only a 5 mile journey to work) but coming back to the bike in the evening I noticed what I thought was a small oil leak but still decided to ride home on it as it was a short journey. I then left the bike for another week whilst I arranged for a service and once over with Ray at Rosso Corse.

But looking at the bike yesterday I noticed it had no fuel and a lot of new peeling paintwork on the engine casing? I went and filled up and sure enough on my return, petrol was dripping down through to the floor. Upon lifting the the petrol tank I could clearly see it dripping from the underside and around the metal plate that the fuel lines connect to. I tried tightening the 7 bolts around the plate but this made it worse and ended up having petrol all over the place and had to literally catch the petrol with tupperware boxes and containers.

Complete nightmare and have now managed to remove the tank completly from the bike and drain the rest of the petrol and clean up the bike. I'm picking up a new o ring tonight but don't really know if that's the problem as the current one seems fine?

The bike is a real mess now and has really f*cked the engine paintwork. I'm reading alot of issues with these plastic petrol tanks and various other issues with petrol leaks around this area, has the tank warped around the plate due to the bike being idle for so long and riding it on a frosty day?:thumbsdown:

I'm hoping this o ring might be the problem so I can still take the bike to Rosso Corse tomorrow and get them to check over everything. Should I be using a torque wrench to tighten these bolts to prevent any further issues?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[utopia]

Sounds like it could well be the o-ring.
Personally, I wouldn't use a torque wrench, but would carefully tighten the bolts by hand, taking great care that they were all tightened very progressively and very, very evenly.
This is more important in this case than being accurate with the torque, and anyway the recommended torque is probably so low that the torque wrench will not do a brilliant job anyway.
A little petroleum jelly on the o-ring will help it to seal nicely.

[Davidg1230]

Thanks, was wondering about adding something else to help with the seal, Petroleum jelly will be perfect.

[Albie]

Thanks, was wondering about adding something else to help with the seal, Petroleum jelly will be perfect.

Use a NEW seal though won't you or take it to an expert for assessment first. Fuel and fire is not good.

[Davidg1230]

I've fitted an new o ring on the fuel pump and reconnected everything, but decided to speak to Ray this morning at who is arranging for the bike to be collected and taken to them.

Probably best and at least he'll know what to do and sort it out and fix the leak.

Now all I have to do is decide what I could do about the damaged paint on the engine. What do you think it'll cost to get them to remove the engine and send away for repainting/powder coating?

[Davidg1230]

Just a quick update on my bike. Ray at Rosso Corse has played a blinder again. the tank has warped, probably due to the ethanol that affects these plastic tanks. He's seen a few over the years and has managed to solve the leak with keeping my new o ring in place , but adding another bigger o ring from a 748 outside of the normal o ring. He's pressure tested it and left it over the weekend and all seems well.

[zhango]

That doesn't sound like a good thing to do. The 'O' ring fits in a groove in the pump mounting flange and protrudes a designed amount so it gets the right squish when the flange is bolted down to be in contact with the tank pump mounting face.
Are you saying that the pump mounting face is now held off the tank by this extra 'O' ring?

[Dookbob]

I don't like that either, it,s ok leaving it over the weekend to see if it holds, but it isn,t vibrating whilst it is sat on a bench is it. I would be looking at the O ring groove to see if it could be enlarged to take a thicker O ring. If that can't be done I would be thinking in terms of a new tank. This is not a new problem, so it might be helpful to enquire on all the Ducati based forums to see if anyone has come up with a procedure to pull the pump face flange back square.

[Nickj]

Now I need to decide on what to do with the peeling engine paint?

As the engine paint is stuffed because the supplied fuel tanks that plainly aren't fit for purpose. That is a fuel tanks job is to hold fuel, ethanol is and remains the primary fuel additive in fuel from before the time these tanks were introduced.
See if Ducati are interested in fixing their problem

[Dookbob]

I did read somewhere recently that the Americans have put pressure on Ducati to accept liability for ethanol damage to their plastic fuel tanks and succeeded, but not so in the UK.

[Davidg1230]

I've done the investigation and you're right, there's plenty of litigation in the US as they naturally have more ethanol their fuel than we do in the UK. I've checked plenty of web sites and seems that Ducati UK aren't interested and responding to this issue.

[zhango]

David please don't use the bike because that 'O' ring 'fix' is a bodge of the highest order and is an accident waiting to happen - the guy who did that should be ashamed of himself.

[utopia]

Ukmoc member "Rac3r" had deformation issues with his S2R plastic tank recently.
He started a few threads about a year ago.
Can't quite remember the final outcome, but I think he was offered a replacement tank in the end, though it may have been at a reduced price rather than a free replacement.

Frankly speaking, I think it is a scandal that this is allowed to continue. This cannot be the first case where the deformation has resulted in petrol leaks from the pump flange, and this is clearly a very dangerous situation.
On the other hand, the potential expense in rectifying the fault on existing bikes is huge so you can understand the reluctance to act, but that's absolutely no excuse when the issue is so serious.
To be honest, I would question the original design which places the pump fitment on the base of the tank where any seal failure could douse the hot engine in fuel.

I'm wondering if you might get a result if you pester them enough, as this is clearly something which Ducati will want to avoid publicity on.
Though even a new tank will only be a temporary cure, it seems.

[zhango]

To be honest, I would question the original design which places the pump fitment on the base of the tank where any seal failure could douse the hot engine in fuel.


Fair point, but the design could have had a moulded in metal plate thick enough not to distort if the tank does - similar to the moulded in metal plate which the fuel tank cap attaches to.
I've been wondering if, to fix a distorted tank, a metal plate could be made but attaching it to the tank would not be easy because nylon is a difficult material to glue to.

http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/zhangopb/PumpMountingFace1_zpsd36bb4b9.jpg

[jerry]

so far in the USA Ducati has replaced for FREE at least 25,000 fuel tanks could actually be 50,000 as many replacement tanks have failed as well, Ducati USA was taken to court by a massive class action of over 3000 people , who wanted ducati to provide a fix or steel tanks ,,, they lost and now ducati only has to replace the defective tanks for 6 years ,,, after that the bikes will most likely be valuless or severly depreciated .USA only allows Pa6 plastic for fuel tanks which is very suspect to Ethanol , however Europe and rest of the world allows PEX plastic which is slightly more durable , most bikes sold in EU are of the PEX type ,,,, but not all .


when ethanol E10 comes to uk the same situation will happen in europe .

I will never buy a duacati with a plastic tank,,,,, also goes for KTM and a few others ..... Triumph went back to steel tanks and the japs use steel ,

Ducati UK will provide replacement tanks if you threaten legal action based on USA problems and legal actions , also speak to trading standards .

[slob]

....last tank he ordered was a metal one at £1700! so even if a plastic tank is half that...

There are a few other anciliary bits you'd need on top if you swap from plastic to metal or vice versa.
I seem to remember the RRP for a plastic tank was around £800. If you hunt around you'll find them *a little cheaper*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Duati-Monster-fuel-tank-/251246985690?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3a7f7cc1da
In the past I've had 'as new' red one for £100 and a dark one for £40, both from eBay.