HELP!!! Is this the right tool?

[pegboy]

I need to remove the magnetic rotor (See picture) and brought this holding tool., (See picture) I took the parts number from the manual and searched ebay and the tool arrived on my doorstep.

This may sound stupid but it does not seam to fit. Only two holes match up. So how you use this tool? The handle is sandwiched with two plates either side, all alined by two location pins on opposite sides and the six bolts that screw into the last plate on the opposite side, holding the plates together If I rearrange the plates to be three on one side and one on the other then the handle will clear but it fouls on the inner flange bit inside the rotor. I am sure the nut will be very tight and I am worried if its only screwed in with only two small bolts and not flush it will snap them clean of before the large nut moves?

Any thoughts, is this the right tool, or am I being the tool?

This is on my 1998 M600

[pegboy]

Here is the tool

[pegboy]

Don't know what's happening but can only upload one picture per post

[dunlop0_1]

If the four holes in the picture will not line up then I would be tempted to redrill the holes using the magent as a template. The nut is around 182 ish nm and can be easily removed with a buzz gun. :biggrin:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/dunlop0_1/image_zps5b2bbfc3.jpg

[utopia]

Though if you modify it, you can't return it.
I have never removed my flywheel/rotor, but I had a look in my manuals and noted that two types of tool are listed....part nos 88713.0710 or 88713.2036 according to model.
There is also mention of earlier types with non-integrated flywheel/rotor assemblies, presumeably as opposed to later, one-piece designs. I assume this accounts for the two different tools.
I'm not sure when the change occurred.
My genuine Ducati manual (for 2000/2001 models) shows the later tool, and its nothing like the one in your pic. Instead it has a C-shaped piece which holds the flywheel by its outer edge, with an extension arm which bolts to the engine somewhere to lock the flywheel in position.
Maybe you have the wrong tool for your model.....1998 could perhaps be on the cusp....?

There are other ways of locking the crank though. Haynes suggest simply using the back brake with a low gear selected, if the motor is still in the frame.

182 Nm is a massive torque.

[pegboy]

Thanks for the replies, I don't fancy drilling additional holes as then I can not return the tool, I do have the non-integrated flywheel/rotor and I see the tool your talking about and yes I think that's what I need. See picture

Now to track one of these down.

[dunlop0_1]

To be honest I use a piece of 5mm bar bet at 2 right angles (like a cranking handle). This drops down behind the flywheel and locks the timing gear on rotation. Some would say this is a tad harsh but Its always worked for me and hey, how many times do you remove a flywheel?

[Dukedesmo]

Thanks for the replies, I don't fancy drilling additional holes as then I can not return the tool, I do have the non-integrated flywheel/rotor and I see the tool your talking about and yes I think that's what I need. See picture

Now to track one of these down.

Any good? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-FLYWHEEL-LOCK-TOOL-FOR-ST3-ST4S-748-996-998-3-PHASE-STATOR-TYPE-/261145606791?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3ccd7dba87

[pegboy]

Thanks again guys I have contacted the guy I brought the tool off and he also has the other tool so will do the swap over, it's a pain as I will only use it once.

[crust]

As you've found out you've got the wrong tool.

TBH I use a 2p coin between the teeth of the starter motor gear after ****ing around with flywheel holding tools.

[utopia]

Maybe the change in the tool corresponds with the change from single phase to three phase alternators ? I'm assuming though....I don't know, but it seems feasible.
3-phase alternators have 3 yellow wires, single phase have 2.

I've used bits of soft alloy to jam gears to lock a shaft in the past, but I always whince when I apply the heave-ho.
That is a very high torque though, and I'm sure you'll have an easier, more effective and less stressful time using the tool, which has the huge benefit of locking the shaft to the engine cases so there are no loads transmitted through the internals. Retightening will be better too.
You'll obviously need a suitable torque wrench to retighten, as well as something beefy to undo the nut.
There's probably a recommended lubricant for the threads too, on such a high torque and critical component. Accurate retightening may depend on using it.
And the last thing that I can think of....there's a belville washer behind the nut, I think.....a dished washer in spring steel. This will mean that as you loosen the nut, it will still feel tight for maybe a full turn (?) so don't fret about that.
And they say, use a new nut too.

Sorry if that's egg sucking, but you never know.

[pegboy]

This is great advice thanks, i have tried loosening the nut in a high gear, lock on the brake pedal, would not move at all. My engine has the three wires, three phase, so I will need to refit the rotor to apply the new tool. I think with this sort of torque the right tool will save alot of swearing and minimise the risk of further damage. I do have a the tools in terms of breaker bars and torque wrench although need to check if it will torque to 180nm.

I appreciate the advice and will now look to get a new nut also if thats the recommended thing to do.

[utopia]

Had a check.....Ducati do recommend a lube for the threads, but surprisingly its only engine oil, rather than a high load grease which I'd been expecting. So that saves buying an expensive tin of special grease......
Incidentally, I also noticed that the belville washer is refitted convex side facing outwards.
Its probably fine to reuse the old one.....Ducati don't mention changing it....but then again it probably only costs pence so if you're in the shop and they have one in stock, you could waste an extra quid on some added peace of mind perhaps.....?

As a club dedicated to a single model range, it would be a nice idea to have a bank of special tools, at least the more expensive ones, available to hire or borrow. Though I guess this often happens at a personal level anyway.
But since you might end up with a redundant tool on your hands, I thought I might as well raise the notion. I'm thinking in terms of the club somehow raising the funds to buy it from you, rather than relying on your personal generosity here. I do actually have a raffle plan on the back burner, which might fit the bill.
Just a thought.

[pegboy]

Utopia, thanks for all this info, really helpfull, and like you said for a few quid more it's worth getting the washer also.

In terms on loaning out tools, yes it does happen I have borrowed tools and also give my tools out to some members, I have no issues leaning tools etc out to memebers/friends although i'd need to feel confident that who I lend the tools to they will come back in the same state I lent them out in.

I am actually going to make a phone call today and see if i can borrow this tool from someone, as i think they may have it, I am only going to use it once then sit in the shed in a tool box. If this fails i will purchase it.

Thanks again :ukm:


Had a check.....Ducati do recommend a lube for the threads, but surprisingly its only engine oil, rather than a high load grease which I'd been expecting. So that saves buying an expensive tin of special grease......
Incidentally, I also noticed that the belville washer is refitted convex side facing outwards.
Its probably fine to reuse the old one.....Ducati don't mention changing it....but then again it probably only costs pence so if you're in the shop and they have one in stock, you could waste an extra quid on some added peace of mind perhaps.....?

As a club dedicated to a single model range, it would be a nice idea to have a bank of special tools, at least the more expensive ones, available to hire or borrow. Though I guess this often happens at a personal level anyway.
But since you might end up with a redundant tool on your hands, I thought I might as well raise the notion. I'm thinking in terms of the club somehow raising the funds to buy it from you, rather than relying on your personal generosity here. I do actually have a raffle plan on the back burner, which might fit the bill.
Just a thought.

[pegboy]

Ok manage to get some time tonight to get back out in the shed, so heating on flat out cuppa in hand and away I go. I managed to borrow a tool, and the 30 mm nut was very tight and everything was highly stressed while trying to undo the nut, i'm sure i would of damaged something trying it any other way. So glad I waited for the tool

So the point of this exercise was to see why my gear change was not returning, I suspected the spring had broken, but no it was not however someone had tried a repair on it at some stage and welded the spring back together, I still have the other engine and took out the gear linkage and replaced it. Now I measured and checked then measured again and checked, installed the linkage and then removed it measured it checked it and reinstalled again. I have taken out the spark plugs and can now select most gears easily, however sometimes it does no quite engage or return, would this be because of the engine not spinning and I am turning the engine by the back wheel in gear, or should it work perfectly even like this? I am thinking that with the engine revolutions it would make a more positive engagement or disengagement? Would this be correct?

[utopia]

I would say that its highly likely that all is well and will work smoothly once everything is spinning.
The one thing that possibly sounds iffy is its reluctance to return, though I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this.
But basically, while its hard to be certain, my bet would be that its now ok.
Bear in mind though, that I speak from a general perspective, rather than having particular experience of Ducati gearboxes.

Who on earth would weld a spring back together....????
Particularly one that's inside the engine.
They're cheap enough anyway, and the welding process would take the hardening and tempering out of the spring steel, so it would be pretty useless, as well as highly likely to break again.

[Martin C]

Yes, I'd say that most bike gearboxes can be a bit obstructive if you attempt to select gears when the engine's not actually running and the rear wheel is also stationary, especially if you try to engage several gears in sequence. The driving dogs seem to need a rotational 'nudge' from one side or the other to facilitate easy engagement/disengagement.

[pegboy]

After I posted this I had the missus help me. I was spinning the rear wheel and she was selecting the gears, I got her to make the gear change noises also, while I was the engine, her gear change sounded like the wastegate on a turbo, quite funny really:chuckle:. Anyway the gears selected really well, with your comments and this exercise I am more confident to put her back together and fire her up again.

The problem with the gear change was when riding the bike and going through the gears, you could not select the next gear, you had to lift the gear lever and then select the next gear. This is what i meant with not returning, and the spring had another rod welded to the side of it, really strange, why would anyone go to the trouble of pulling everything apart only to do something so Stupid:twak:

Will post a picture of it, that's an idea the worst mods on a bike, i know people on here would not do it to their own bikes but what we have found and or come across. I am sure there are more stories to tell.

[Saint aka ML]

With engine off most of my gears only go "half way in".

So how does new tool look like if old one was not it?

[pegboy]

This is the tool that was needed. This is for the 1998 M600 three phase engine

Can not upload picture for some reason, try this link

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducati-Flywheel-Holding-Tool-Part-No-887133367-/120997479207?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1c2c030327

[Saint aka ML]

How does that work?

[pegboy]

You will see attached the tool that i used, this one shows two bolts at either end of the C shape. Mine has one bolt and a locating pin. It bolts onto the engine block where the rearsets bolt to, then the C wraps around the rotor, you align the bolt into a hole on the rotor, tighten the bolt to secure and everything is locked into position. However mine only has one hole so could only secure it on one side, although this was enough and did the trick.

I can not load up pictures as the BMP is incorrect?? try these links

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducati-Flywheel-Holding-Tool-Part-No-887133367-/120997479207?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1c2c030327

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/sport-touring/87569d1302122990-alternator-nut-drama-tool-req-locking.jpg

[pegboy]

A they say, still don't know exactly who "THEY" are, A picture speaks a thousand words:biggrin:

[Saint aka ML]

Aahh ok yep THEY are correct