Gear indicator for older monsters

[utopia]

A revcounter is hardly neccessary on a monster, but we've all gone searching for that elusive extra gear, or even occaisionally held on to 4th, thinking it was 5th...... I certainly have.
I had an led revcounter fitted for a while, but I didn't really like it and last weekend I removed it. I'd prefer a gear indicator anyway, as it gives me the instant info that I'm after without need for mental calculation.
As far as I know, most gear indicators operate by comparing road speed with engine speed, so won't work on non-electronic monsters.
However, thanks to an earlier post by Dukedesmo where he mentioned that his old GT380 suzuki had one, I was inspired to look further.
Last night I came across a diy design for a gear indicator which works via magnetic sensors to monitor gear lever movement.
It also links to the neutral switch circuit and recalibrates every time neutral is selected.
It looks quite small, but whether its small enough to fit in the std idiot light panel remains to be seen.
I intend to try.
I can't do links, but the info can be found by searching for "motorcycle universal gear indicator by Vassilis Papanikolaou" on www.electronics-lab.com.
I'm not the worlds most competent electrical bod either, so would appreciate any comments from those who are.
It looks like it should be fine though, as long as I can sort out a neat physical installation.

If anyone has a spare idiot light panel hanging around, even a damaged one, I would be interested.

[stef]

I'm not the worlds most competent electrical bod either, so would appreciate any comments from those who are.


Ok i am not either, but i am an electronic engineer. so i sort of know this stuff.

i dont know what sort of experience you have with micro-controllers, but this project uses one.
They are good fun for loads of project, but they require a little know how and equipment to setup.
do you have the programmer he mentions in his project ? ( ATTINY25 microcontroller and USBTiny programmer)
do you have the equipment to make a PCB or someone to make one cheap ?

the list could go on...
but, if you say no to any of the questions so far, i think you'd be better forgetting about it. i am not doubting you could make one, given the time and the cash. it's just that unless you are already an electronic hobbyist, it's not an economically viable project.

having said that, you may be fully competent and have all the equipement or have access to it. you may even find someone here who can help.
in which case, ignore all the negative crap above.

it looks tricky to fit the hall sensor near enough the gear lever though...

[utopia]

Thanks for the quick reply, Stef.

I have absolutely zilch experience with micro-controllers.....or electronics of any kind really.
I do have a friend who used to mess with such projects (in a minor kind of way) who may be able to assist though.
Inital investigation suggests that the ATTINY25 microcontroller is available for 50p.
In fact, the full parts list, minus pcbs, comes in at less than a tenner.
I don't know what you mean by the USB Tiny programmer though.......is this one of the listed components or some sort of set-up equipment ? .....I was assuming that no set-up kit would be needed and it would simply be a matter of connecting up the bits and pieces. Maybe I need to study the write-up more closely.
I have no equipment to make pcbs, nor a friend who has, but I was thinking there might be a simple method of making a one-off, using some sort of basic board and a scratching tool...????

I agree that the install of the hall sensors may be tricky, but I'm thinking of making some custom rearsets anyway, and was hoping that I could tweek their design accordingly.

Many thanks for your comments.

[stef]

Thanks for the quick reply, Stef.

I have absolutely zilch experience with micro-controllers.....or electronics of any kind really.
I do have a friend who used to mess with such projects (in a minor kind of way) who may be able to assist though.
Inital investigation suggests that the ATTINY25 microcontroller is available for 50p.
In fact, the full parts list, minus pcbs, comes in at less than a tenner.
I don't know what you mean by the USB Tiny programmer though.......is this one of the listed components or some sort of set-up equipment ? .....I was assuming that no set-up kit would be needed and it would simply be a matter of connecting up the bits and pieces. Maybe I need to study the write-up more closely.
I have no equipment to make pcbs, nor a friend who has, but I was thinking there might be a simple method of making a one-off, using some sort of basic board and a scratching tool...????

I agree that the install of the hall sensors may be tricky, but I'm thinking of making some custom rearsets anyway, and was hoping that I could tweek their design accordingly.

Many thanks for your comments.


ah.. ok..
forget the idea.

the microcontroller chip is available at 50p (probably if you order 100 000 of them) but the programmer is 20squids. cheap enough, but the setup costs will soon add up.
you need a soldering iron, solder ...
the ucontroller is basically a tiny, dumb computer with very limited abilities. a few inputs, a few output, and a little program in the middle.
the programmer puts your program in there. so the chip can do whatever you want it to do.
it could well be the same microcontroller chip in your DVD player and in you washing machine, and on a injected monster....just a different program.

usually does ucontrollers are surface mount ( no pins through holes, like in the old days) so making you own pcb from cardboard and wire is out of the question.

best and cheapest is to send the files to a professional one shot pcb manufacturer who will do it for you.. costs probably around 10pounds if you find a cheap place.

a professional grade job would be above 50pounds for this particular PCB.
you'd probably order 3 or 4, just because the likelyhood of messing it up is high...
then you need to buy automotive grade wires, enclosure, connectors...

if you can do this for less than 100pounds, i'd take my hat off.

I made this a few years back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMv7Oxxl8dg
took me a fair bit of time, with full access to a electronic workshop, and the design was a little simpler than the microcontoller thing..
i ended up binning it, and it never made it on the bike. i bought an acewell instead !

[don_matese]

for a few quid you might save yourself a headache - theres loads on ebay that work in the way you've linked to

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blue-Universal-Digital-Gear-Indicator-Motorcycle-/220803591000

[utopia]

for a few quid you might save yourself a headache - theres loads on ebay that work in the way you've linked to

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blue-Universal-Digital-Gear-Indicator-Motorcycle-/220803591000


Ahaaaa ....!!!!
That looks like the jobbie for me.
More compact than the other design as it looks like all the electronics are contained within the display housing.
And auto-programming too, so presumeably just plug ang play.
And for peanuts, really.
Not sure whether the 1inch square display can be squeezed into the std idiot light panel for ultimate neatness, but I'm sure I can work something out. At least there's no additional circuitry to accomodate, and worst case scenario is to house it seperately in a custom dash panel (that's the sort of tech I can handle).
Actually,the description of at least one of those units uses the same diagrams as in my earlier link, so maybe these are a later development of the same thing....I think the earlier one was from a couple of years ago.

Many thanks indeed for the info.
Once again, UKMOC comes up trumps with numero uno, grade one responses beyond my wildest expectations.
I will continue to try to respond in kind.

[Nickj]

LOL I occasionally get that which gear puzzle, it's usually when I'm dawdling around so it's not too frequent.

[AndyC_772]

If you're interested in electronics and still fancy the idea of building your own, you could be brave and build one on stripboard instead of the PCB, using a different microcontroller. Microchip (www.microchip.com) do a wide range of DIL microcontrollers which would fit easily, though you'd have to modify the code to work on one as well as changing the electrical schematic to suit. Not a big job if you have some electronics expertise, or a mate who does and who likes beer.

A Microchip PIC programmer is about £35:
http://uk.farnell.com/microchip/pg164130/programmer-in-cct-debugger-pickit/dp/1771323

If you'd rather build the kit using the original parts including the little Atmel microcontroller, the PCB supplier I normally use for boards like this is PCBTrain:

http://www.pcbtrain.co.uk/

Happy to help out with advice on design & construction - I do this stuff for a living too.

[Saint aka ML]

Might be just me but it happened to me on all bikes where I shifted up or down and gear did not go quite in. If it did not click I could just push again in same direction and it would go in but would that not get the gear indicator to show up one gear? If I had similar issue and a click then I would have to go down before going up again so that would be fine for indicator.

Also if that system is using neutral switch to reset itself (assuming your switch is working) I manage to get the light to go on between gears when in false neutral (2nd to 3rd gear) would that not make it reset? If they introduced a delay for that reset of 2 -3 seconds of light on before reset then fine but it is not stated either way.

[AndyC_772]

Build your own from a kit and you can modify the software however you like :)

[gary tompkins]

Just keep changing up until it won't go any further... hey presto that's top gear

Repeat downwards to locate first gear

K.I.S.S.

[don_matese]

Buy a vespa and forget abt gears...just twist n go ;-)

[utopia]

Well, last night I removed the rectangular idiot light panel to see what the scope was for installing one of the units that don suggested.
The results are quite encouraging.
There are already two unused red lights (no bulbs or wiring present), but more space is needed.
However, I think I can gain more space by doing away with the "lights on" warning light (can't really see the point of that anyway...the dash lights up when the lights are on).
Further, I can take out the existing neutral light, as the digital unit has neutral indication anyway.
This then makes four of the existing eight idiot light positions available for the new digital display, which is plenty, particularly as I can easily move the remaining lights around to arrange for the four vacant positions to be in a square layout.
Not sure that I would want to eliminate the original neutral light entirely though, but this can be reinstalled as an eerie green glow around the new gear display, so will give me belt and braces as far as neutral indication is concerned.
Andy....Thanks for your offer, but at £15 for one of these units, its a no-brainer really.
Saint...I think that retaining the existing neutral light, but integrating it with the digital display, will give me enough reassurance that the neutral indication is accurate at all times, which is the only critical factor really. If the digital unit ties itself in knots occaisionally, I'll just ignore it. I almost never hit false neutrals on the monster anyway.....can only remember one occaision in 10k miles. Actually, although its clonky from neutral, the gearchange is super-slick on the move, particularly since I fitted the rearsets. I'm assuming that the unit wouldn't reset at false neutrals anyway, as the neutral switch shouldn't be activated...?
Nick.... I've searched for extra gears on just about every bike I've ever owned, but It seems worse on the monster. Maybe its the spread of torque thats the cause....or maybe I'm just getting old. It happened least on my first 350 yam, and of course its spread of torque was wafer thin.....but also I was sixteen then.
GT.... yes I know, a gear indicator is a bit mamby pamby. I have no problem with choosing an appropriate gear though, its just knowing how many are left in the bag that catches me out sometimes, and even if I'm pretty sure that the bag is empty, I can't resist an extra prod just to check, which is a momentary distraction that I can do without, as long as there is a simple alternative, and this unit seems to do the biz without being too tacky or untidy.

Two questions.....
Is the "lights on" indicator light an mot requirement, or can I remove it with impunity ? To be honest I find it annoying anyway, and even slightly confusing (as one of three green lights), so mine has been taped over with just a small dot remaining.
Does anyone have a spare rectangular idiot light box, a la older monster, hanging about in the shed ? I'd rather have an escape route if the cutting of my existing one goes astray.

I was surprised how easily the idiot light box came apart....no glued seams or breakable clips. It should be a simple and easy mod at that end.
My only concern now is the effectiveness of the gear lever sensors. Like Saint says, It may read any movement of the gear lever as a gearchange, whether successful or not. Time will tell whether this is an issue, but I imagine it won't be cos on those rare occaisions when it does happen, I'll know to ignore the gear indicator until it resets.

A further benefit is that I will be able to remove my blobs of blu-tac from the speedo glass (currently indicating max speeds in each gear). They weren't much help anyway.

I promise to learn how to upload pics so that I can post details for anyone else who's interested. For £15, it has the makings of being one of my most cost-effective mods so far. And it should be almost indetectable as a mod, so keeps things looking nice and simple.

[Saint aka ML]

I have parts of old dash and I do have light cluster .... well will confirm 100% in few minutes as l'll nip down and check. If you want it you can have it.

[Saint aka ML]

So what you need? Light cluster is in one piece however indicator light wires are cut. Saying that I left a bit of wire at connector to see what goes where.

[utopia]

Excellent, and thanks very much.
All I need is the white warning light box itself with the coloured lenses and black plastic cover ...no need for any wiring or anything like that.
Actually, if it all goes according to plan, with no mishaps and a good result, I could let you have one back in due course.......a modified one even, if you like.
Or maybe it could be the basis of a UKMOC exchange gear light production line..........

pm to follow.

[Nickj]

I ought to have one of those somewhere, not totally sure where though. I'll have a look over the weekend

[Saint aka ML]

Neh to late he owns me a favour now hehe

[utopia]

Well, this project went on the back burner for quite a while, but its still a goer and the plan is to install it over the winter.
But before the lull in progress, I did manage to install the display unit in the spare std monster idiot light box which Lukasz sent me (thanks again).
It all went rather well actually.
In the end I was able to retain the use of 5 of the std warning lights, so I still have the original neutral light in addition to the one within the new unit.
Anyway, here's some pics.....

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u644/photopia132/GetAttachment2_zps97e9fe7e.jpg (http://s1326.photobucket.com/user/photopia132/media/GetAttachment2_zps97e9fe7e.jpg.html)

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u644/photopia132/GetAttachment2_zpsc0ed23e3.jpg (http://s1326.photobucket.com/user/photopia132/media/GetAttachment2_zpsc0ed23e3.jpg.html)

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u644/photopia132/GetAttachment1_zps842d3af0.jpg (http://s1326.photobucket.com/user/photopia132/media/GetAttachment1_zps842d3af0.jpg.html)

[Darren69]

looks very neat