Hopefully an interesting thread on Tyres - Yep, Tyres....

[Headhunter]

I know many think this is a boring subject, which tyre, best grip, durability etc etc.

Anyway I've been recently thinking about this.... Does it really matter which tyre (brand / design) you buy. When I refer to this, I mean in the mid to upper range of the market where all tyres should offer excellent grip etc.

Does it really matter whether you've got the same brand/tread for both tyres. Okay this may sound really stupid/ a little bit "out there" but through no choice of my own, I've been riding with a Pirelli Diablo rear and a Bridgstone Battlemax 029 (something or other) on the front. And to be fair, over the past 18 months, I've not noticed any difference/wobble/cause for concern. Okay most of my riding is in the dry, which may skew things but I do give my tyres a good run for their money.

Sooooo, the question is...... does it really make that much of a difference in the mid to upper end of the market. Is it purely marketing / psychological effect?

Nice "heavy" thread for a Sunday morning! ;)

[Dukedesmo]

Unless you're doing fast track days/racing I don't think there is a great deal of difference, as long as you stick with the reputable brands you won't find a bad tyre and they're all better than they were 10 or even 5 years ago and certainly far better than we 'mature' riders started out on...

[Headhunter]

certainly far better than we 'mature' riders started out on...

Just reminded me of a funny story Didge (c'mon, he is mature) once told me about filling his old tyre with grass following a puncture.

I just get the feeling tyres are now becoming like toothbrushes!

[SunEye]

There is a difference between different tyres. There are differences in the profiles, compounds and treads. I doubt there are any poor tyres at the upper end of the market. It all comes down to personal preference and what suits your bike and riding.

Personally I found the Bridgestone BT016 originally fitted to my M1100 had very low levels of grip in cold weather (less than 10 degrees). I was also able to turn the tyres a nice shade of blue when riding in France at Easter 2011. They lasted for about 6,000 miles.

The Michelin Pilot Road 3 I have fitted now turn slightly slower than the BT016, but offer higher levels of grip at low temperatures and are outstanding in the wet. Even in very hot weather (40 degrees plus) the grip is good and try as hard as I can the tyres never go blue. They are also quite hard wearing. I've done over 7,000 miles on mine and there's still some life in them.

[Rally]

If you saw the profile of different tyres on a sheet of paper, you would see why it makes a difference. Take an Avon Venom for example, very pointed in the middle, flat on the sides for more contact when cornering. Compare that to a Michelin power sports tyre that is almost a perfect arc. If you pushed hard on a corner with those differences, you would definately feel it.

If you cannot feel the difference, I would suggest you either have been lucky with two similar profiled tyres or you haven't used all the tyre to the limit.

[Headhunter]

If you cannot feel the difference, I would suggest you either have been lucky with two similar profiled tyres or you haven't used all the tyre to the limit.

Probably the latter ;) Good to read people's thoughts.

Never really thought about pointed style tyres - have to admit most of my experience of tyres out there have been mainly perfect arc style hence probably the initial post.

Good to hear about your experience of the Pilot Road 3's, Suneye. Am tempted to get these as my next tyre.

[gary tompkins]

I've also just fitted a set of Road 3's on the Buell

Early days as yet because I've only put in around 200 miles but I'm impressed so far

[MrsC_772]

Being a slow lightweight I'm not exactly hard on tyres, but even I have noticed a difference between the original tyres fitted to my 696 (Bridgestone - I think they might have been BT016s) and my current BT023s, which give much more confidence in the wet, and still have decent tread and no deterioration in performance, after 10,000 miles including a Mallory Park trackday! (The previous ones needed replacing at around 7,000 when I noticed a deterioration in the bike's handling, and the profile looked like a 50p coin!)

So yes, while most modern mid-high end tyres may be good, there will be differences in durability and cold/wet weather performance.

[Nickj]

Tyres are a bit like wine... Usually you get what you pay for but occasionally places like lidls toss a neuf de pape or medal winner out for peanuts.

I still rate Maxxis tyres, Yes they are the top end tyres from the same plant that makes the Cheng Shin tyres. In wine terms that might be Chilean red.
Outriding the sports versions is hard these tyres are capable of an IOM lap at an average 100.276 mph and lap time of 22 minutes 34.55 secs. (Chris McGahan 2008)

[Chris & Nean]

This is worth reading, it goes on about how road tyres can be a better buy that sports tyres and explains the reasons why, think I might try roads text time myself. http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/generic/tires.php

[utopia]

One point about tyre profiles is that you only get what the designer intended when the tyre is new.
The original rear tyre on my bike was well squared off after only 2000miles by two previous owners.
It had therefore also become a seious mismatch to the profile of the front tyre.
I think that retaining it's profile one of the most important factors in a road tyre, and the advent of dual compound tyres is the most significant design breakthrough in years.
The dual compound PR2 currently on the rear of my bike has probably done 7000m by now, and still has what looks to my eye, and also feels like a nicely rounded profile.
And that includes one trackday, when the grip available more than matched my ability.
I certainly wouldn't buy a single compound rear again.

Personally, I don't want a supersoft and sticky rear tyre on the road. It wears out of profile too quickly....and I would seldom get it up to its working temperature, so most of the time it would be wasted.
What I do very much want though, is a tyre which warms quickly, giving me decent grip at moderate speeds on shortish or medium runs, possibly on a cold day, and particularly in the wet.
I would much rather have a tyre that was designed to perform at its best under those conditions, and thus help me avoid an accident in everyday situations, than have more grip than is safe to use on a sunday blast.
I was a bit dismayed on my return to biking to discover that "tread" seemed to have become a thing of the past, sacrificed in the futile attempt to minimise squirming on superfast turns....like that's important away from the track.
I was only partially reassured by the argument that its hot, sticky rubber in contact with the road that gives you wet grip, and not tread as such.
Not sure how that works on wet diesel either.
And anyway, tread equals flex equals fast heating and good grip.
So in short, when the new PR3s were announced it was like a light in the darkness.
There is no doubt at all that I will be fitting those next.
But first I need to wear the PR2s out, and that might take a while yet.
Of course, the rear will go first, at which point I'll have to consider whether to replace both, or keep the front through one PR3 on the rear.
To be honest, I would have no qualms about the mismatch, or the age of the front, but I will probably put a pair of PR3s on, just because I believe in them.

Fat, round, silica rich, dual compound, duplex tread, tubeless radials.....fast warming, profile retaining, stable and sticky in the real world, wet or dry .......yep, that'll do me just fine.
I think there's a lot of irrelevant focus on high-end performance, and miniscule differences between brands, when other factors are more important in the real world.

.......other brands may be available.

[the_adam]

Since I've not been riding long I've only got round to trying a couple of different tyres so far but they have felt identical to the standard ones for my purposes - completely fine in the dry (not that I really push them :)), very worrying grip on the back wheel when it's wet. If it's like that with my little Monster I'd hate to think how you manage on a more powerful bike :chuckle: I'm well over 12000 miles on the current ones (avon storm 2 ultras) so will have to see about trying something different again soon!

[J.P]

I'm well over 12000 miles on the current ones (avon storm 2 ultras) so will have to see about trying something different again soon!

Jeez, that's plenty of miles on them. And you've got loads of tread left ?

[Rally]

I cannot believe some of these figures being quoted for mileages on tyres. I've never managed 5000 miles from a rear before? Maybe it's that I prefer the softer options.

[Nottsbiker]

I cannot believe some of these figures being quoted for mileages on tyres. I've never managed 5000 miles from a rear before? Maybe it's that I prefer the softer options.

You and me both - I'm not a track day refugee but seem to chew through tyres at an alarming rate of on average 3k miles for a rear. This has been like this on my TL-S, Tuono (1st one), 996 and again on my second RSV.

[scrapps]

I have just fitted a pair of MAXXIS diamonds on my bike and as said before they have a very different profile to my last tires giving a very different feel.
I also never manage more than 4k from a my tyres and have fitted the MAXXIS as they are a harder compound so i hope will last a bit better.

[gary tompkins]

I've just put a set of Maxxis sports on the spare 900ie monster. The original michelin pilots were shot to bits, and I wanted fresh tyres for when it's sold later this seasion.

Got a great deal at Watling tyres too.. £153 for the pair :mand:

[J.P]

I've never managed more than a 4,000 thousand miles on my bikes , and like Rally I like my rubber soft... ;)

Just had fitted at the weekend a set of new Bridgestone 21's. New generation of the tyre to compete with the Dunlop Sportsmarts and the Michelin Power 2CT'S. Came highly recommended by various mags so I thought I'd give them a try. Around £240-£260 depending on where you get them fitted.

I decided to ditch the standard Pirelli Diablo's off the Monster after 1,400 miles because those look great for dry sunny roads but almost an inch of slick tyre on the edge gives NO wet grip, and I'm an all weather rider 'progressive' rider.

[the_adam]

Jeez, that's plenty of miles on them. And you've got loads of tread left ?

Pretty sure that's right, they aren't too far off needing replacing. I'm surprised myself how well they've lasted, it's been well over 18 months since they were changed now. Have to remember I ride mostly on motorways at the lowest revs possible (with maybe the odd crazy moment when I'm actually on a nice road or get stopped at traffic lights :)), can't afford to do much else with this job :( I do feel sorry for the bike sometimes!

[Blah blah]

I had Dunlop Sportmax's on my old 750 as I had always loved dunlops previously but they made the bike feel really twitchy and it began to weave more and more as they wore down. They never let go but it got so bad that when the rear needed to be replaced I changed the less than half worn front for a set of Michelin Pilot Pures.

Straight to the edges with absolutely no drama, and the twitchyness had disappeared, and the turn in was even quicker than before, but that could have been down to the reduced weight

So even a slow ludite like me could tell the difference, and I'd quite happily put the Michelins on the next bike as they suited my riding style.

[scrapps]

I had my 1st chance to give the MAXXIS a proper test on road yesterday and must say i found them to be very good,they turn in much faster than my old Michelin's and were stable on faster bends (70+) i also felt confident on them while the road and tyres were still a bit cool(given the weather) due to the diamond tread on the outer edges.
Early days yet but happy with them for now,I am going to the Prescott hill climb next week and hope they will prove good on the hill.

[PDL]

Few items for thought:
- Tyres are made to work together front/back together
- Rear tyre widths aren't all the same e.g. a Michelin 180 isn't the same width as a Pirelli 180 measure them you'll be shocked
- Pirelli and Metz are the same you can mix em
- Front profiles differ between brands
- When you are mid corner you steer from the rear if you bung a different make front on and the profiles differ you may not have as big a contact patch

As for wear my brand new Michelin Power Ones Race, have done 62 miles and the rear will be replaced after an ACU test day on 27th April, the front will be replaced after PDMCC Race Rd 1 on 29th April. Anyone want a pair of scrubs, loads of life in the centre of the tyre £70 pair collected.

[Headhunter]

Few items for thought:
- Tyres are made to work together front/back together
- Rear tyre widths aren't all the same e.g. a Michelin 180 isn't the same width as a Pirelli 180 measure them you'll be shocked
- Pirelli and Metz are the same you can mix em
- Front profiles differ between brands
- When you are mid corner you steer from the rear if you bung a different make front on and the profiles differ you may not have as big a contact patch




That's what I love about this site. Is cool to read the interesting comments / views.

:ukm:

[scrapps]

Cheers PDL some handy info.

[PDL]

...Personally, I don't want a supersoft and sticky rear tyre on the road...and I would seldom get it up to its working temperature, so most of the time it would be wasted....

Hy mate, soft tyres are for colder race conditions, a soft tyre warms up very very quickly but also cools down quickly that's the issue for road riding the quick cool down. You would get it up to op temp quite easily but as soon as you stop it will go off.

...What I do very much want though, is a tyre which warms quickly, giving me decent grip at moderate speeds on shortish or medium runs, possibly on a cold day, and particularly in the wet....

It the wet you need tread as it's tread that displaces water, there is less coefficient of friction around in the wet so you need to remove water. What you want is a tyre that doesn't cool down quickly.

...I was only partially reassured by the argument that its hot, sticky rubber in contact with the road that gives you wet grip, and not tread as such.

And anyway, tread equals flex equals fast heating and good grip...

It's both. Grip is all about the available coefficient of friction, the rubber needs to grip but in the wet you need tread to remove water so the rubber can grip. E.G. The MotoGP lads will still race in the wet on slicks if they are caught out by a down pour and they don't go crashing willy nilly.

The most important thing about tyres is tyre pressure. I run Michelin Power One Race tyres with 19 PSI rear and 24 PSI front from cold, wow I hear you say. Wet race tyres I run at 33 PSI each and without warmers.

For the road I'd suggest Michelin 2CTs 27/25, or in the wet a bit more pressure and backing off of your pre load by two clicks, but most people won't alter pressures or susp for wet road riding.

Enjoy

[J.P]

It's like the Oracle is speaking to me... :)

[the_adam]

Got a question on tyres that I don't think comes up very often :look:

When I eventually do the swingarm swap I have the rim from a 916 (the older 6" version not 5.5) to fit. This apparently took a 190/50 as standard, whereas the current one is a 160/60. Since I've got a reasonable amount of tread left on the front tyre and money is likely to be fairly tight, would it be sensible to get a 190/60 instead to keep the profile the same? Or just go for a new front tyre too and maybe have both as 55s?

I understand that it's best for the profile to be the same on both tyres, just a little unsure what sort of effect messing about with it would have on handling. Bearing in mind that I don't exactly push the bike very often I'm not too concerned about minor changes though, as long as it's rideable I probably wouldn't notice the difference :)

[gary tompkins]

Fitting a super fat 190/60 tyre on back will effect handling... and maybe not in a good way

Also you may have clearance issues on swingarm or hugger

[the_adam]

Thanks Gary, having done a bit of research it looks like the 180/55 tyre they used on the 5.5" wheels (same size as the s2r I believe) will also fit on a 6 so that might be an option, there's another slight problem I've come across though... :worried:


Rim clearance could be a concern. To be honest I hadn't been aware when I bought it that the 916 wheels came in 2 different rim sizes (should have researched this better!), the newer ones were the same as the s2r but I seem to have got the rarer (and wider) version. It fits fine at the moment, if rather close to the swingarm, but I've now heard that it has clearance problems with the caliper in some chain adjustment positions...Guess the only way to know for sure would be to try it...or it may be best to admit I've made a mistake and just go looking for another wheel :o

[Nickj]

Don't worry Utopia "I was a bit dismayed on my return to biking to discover that "tread" seemed to have become a thing of the past" you can still get nicely treaded tyres like THESE (http://www.otwtyres.co.uk/k81-tt100-classic.htm)
I remember when I tried these first time ahh the summers were......

[johnsy]

I ride with 2 different brands due to a puncture, think I get the most out of them :yoparty:

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss127/johnsy68/reartyre.jpg

[BluprintZ]

I had part-worn Bridgestones on the 900 when i first bought her, when the time came, i replaced them with BT21's and they stuck like shat to a blancket, i WAS Casey Stoner.
The bike handled like it was on rails and i could crank it over to silly angles and it was a dream to drift the back-end into corners, they were brilliant.

I've just replaced the Metzeler Laser-tecs on the Thruxton with Bridgestone BT45's, be interesting to see how they perform on a much heavier bike than the Monnie.
I was getting just over 31/2k on both the brand new Avon RoadRiders that were on the Trumpet when i bought her and similar mileage on the Metzelers, although they dropped off damn quick when they were pretty much worn, compared to the Avons that had a more gentle drop-off time.

G ; )