Ducati technical evening 16/3/12

[philrl1]

Hi all

Just thought I'd pass on some information I picked up at Woods Motorcycles, Abergele last night. The mechanic/technician said you should not bump start a new(er) Ducati. Apparently you can get away with it once or twice but eventually it will damage the ECU's on the bike. Also, that connecting the bike to start it or connecting it to a booster charger to start only once can fry the ECU's. The Multistrada which they used in the technical evening had six on ECU's on it each costing £1000 Euros! They said that the breakdown organizations are now usually refusing to start a bike with a flat battery with a booster charger because of this issue as damage can be traced to them by the dealers when they boosted the bike.

Also, don't cut into wiring looms/switches on new Ducati's to connect e.g. sat nav's or heated grips as this lowers the current in the circuit which the bike detects and will show up as a fault. Also you can't just solder a damaged loom as this will show up as a fault.

Also, that bike batteries on the new bikes (from all manufacturers) are very small nowadays and it takes very little to drain them e.g. leaving the headlight on but engine not started will drain the battery in about 5 minutes. They said the engine can crank over but if the battery cannot get it up to the required cranking speed the bike won't fire up. They said they connect Optimates to the bikes when they are working on them with the ignition on but the engine isn't running.

I'm not a technical person so I'm just relaying what the mechanic said to us.

All in all it was a very interesting and informative evening at Woods. If you get chance to go when they do another one it's well worth going.

Cheers. Phil.

[Twentytoo]

Sounds like a good event. I'll keep an eye out and thanks for sharing this.

sorry if I'm being thick (just switching off nights) but what do you mean about 6 ecus on the Multistrada?

[philrl1]

As I said I'm not very good technically but I think because there's so much electronically operated and adjustable equipment to run on bikes like the Multistrada such as ABS, traction control, suspension etc as well as engine management there's too much for one ECU to run. The mechanic didn't explain why there's more than one ECU and nobody asked.

[Nickj]

Maybe they just dot some of the control systems here and there to fill up odd gaps??
Seems a bit odd though as you can fit a lot of computer power in a very small package

[slipperyweeguy]

ECU has traditionally stood for Engine Control Unit. You really should only need one for that, but even the first production vehicle (Audi ur quattro) to use a computer (made by Hitachi) to manage the engine had another for the ABS and one for the dashboard/voice synthesizer. ECU now commonly means Electronic Control Unit. 17 computers iirc in the old model Citroen C5, and plenty of those went home on tow trucks. The computers should not be using much power, as on a stationary vehicle they will not be processing varying inputs, and the controlled systems won't need adjusted so the systems should be idling.

Maybe I'm being a bit cynical, or maybe it's the gin, but who's going to want a Multistrada once it's out of warranty, if its maintainability is so compromised by design?

[utopia]

Call me a luddite or an old fart, but I think we're obsessed with electronic technology to the point where we fit it where its real world benefits are marginal.
The whole system is then so overcomplicated that it becomes hypersensitive to any irregularity.
These episodes are then in turn invariably very costly to resolve, either because they're beyond a diy fix or because the parts are massively expensive.
For me, one of the essential characteristics of a good motorcycle is simplicity. Thats one reason why I like the good-sense design of a simple 90deg v-twin.
Its a personal choice, but the so called advances of bikes bristling to bursting point with electronic technology are one reason why I won't be buying one.

ps....I'm not really a luddite. I just don't see the need for all the extra fuss, but I do see good reason to avoid it when it can have such a downside.
Appropriate design is what its about. Being too clever doesn't make sense.
It does sell new bikes though.

[Small Clanger]

Has anyone called out Ducati Roadside Assisstance to a bike with a knackered battery? and, if so, how did they start it?

[Capo]

Bring back magnetos

[slob]

Not just the new ones...

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=38140
http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=39560
http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=41191

[simon_g]

Also you can't just solder a damaged loom as this will show up as a fault.

I don't get it. A properly soldered joint is just as electrically conductive (well, to within tiny fractions of an ohm) as the wires on either side - so how would anything detect a fault?

[philrl1]

I don't get it. A properly soldered joint is just as electrically conductive (well, to within tiny fractions of an ohm) as the wires on either side - so how would anything detect a fault?

I can only assume the mechanic may have meant that the bike's system is sensitive enough to detect those tiny fractions of an ohm. Other than that, I've no idea.

[Rally]

A certain person had his bike jump started by the roadside assistance in France last year and suffered exactly these problems. After taking it to the ombudsman, he won the case against the Insurance company that instructed the roadside assistance to attend.

A simple costly error as the bike was stuck in France with a costly repair to be done as well! As Slob says; Bring back magnetos! The bikes of today are too complicated for their own good. :thumbsdown:

I think if asked, most manufacturers will argue it is done due to the new harsh emmision controls that they have to meet and an ECU is the only way to achieve them constantly.

[Saint aka ML]

I can kind off understand the booster issue but saying that cars were started with boosters for donkeys years now and never heard of such issue. Why is that?

In regards of bump starting sorry but no idea how that can be wrong? If you have enough power to power-on the ecu then bumping bike is no different then using starter motor. In case of bumping that motor is rear wheel. Race starters that spin the rear wheel also in essence bump the bikes and WSBK machines have even more ecu's

[Thirdway]

New bikes actually have far simpler wiring than older bikes because they use a bus system. The connection between the switches and the rear of the bike now only requires one pair of wires which have signal and power. Cutting into the loom means that it now sees a fault.