Dukedesmo's M900 project - the intro...

[Dukedesmo]

The intro...

OK, so I started this project back in September 2010 and have flirted with 'project
threads', a few pics here an update there and the odd question somewhere else but I've lacked continuity so I'm starting an official 'Dukedesmo's M900 project' thread for those that maybe interested.

Bike has progressed somewhat from the early days and I'd like to offer thanks to those that have helped with advice, ideas and parts etc.

Things have slowed down of late but I'm hoping to get things moving again with a view to actually being able to ride it this summer.

At the risk of repeating stuff that I've already posted on other threads, I thought I'd better start from the beginning for this thread.

As such it may take me a while to get up to date so forgive me if you've already seen it or you've lost interest and feel free to advise/criticise/ask/praise/insult/ignore me as you see fit. :biggrin:

The beginning:

[Dukedesmo]

As a long-time Ducati fan, I'd always fancied a Monster; an old-school Monster 900 and I always liked the high-level exhausts, so that was the project 'brief' a 900cc Monster with high-level cans.

I considered buying a ready-built & working bike but, for whatever reason (probably insanity!) decided to buy loads of bits and put them together along with a few parts that I had lying around in the workshop and whilst I enjoy this sort of thing it is definitely not a cheap way of acquiring a new bike.

Anyway the base for the build was a frame from a 1999 M600 that I bought, along with a few assorted bits; rear suspension & wheel, airbox, hugger, wiring loom etc. All looking a bit 'tired' but in generally good condition.

I had also seperately acquired an aircooled 900 engine in, seemingly, good condition so was thinking 'I only need a few bits and I'm there' a couple of months and I'll be riding it. :rolleyes:

The frame;

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15944&d=1329256833

Probably the fastest skateboard in the world?;

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15945&d=1329256903

So now the goal was to marry the above parts along with my 'left-over' 916 forks that I had rebuilt by Ktech with their internals, lighter springs, ti-nitride tubes and Brembo radial brake mounts;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010227a.jpg

I had a plan, and a mission...

[Dukedesmo]

So, searching breakers and ebay etc I started acquiring some of the 'few' bits that I needed and started a test assembly of random parts as & when they were sourced;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010093a.jpg

Metallic silver tank, alloy swingarm & termi high-level cans.

I then discovered that the 916 forks were the wrong size to fit the Monster yokes (916 are 53mm top and bottom, Monster are 50mm top, 54mm bottom) so I took the yokes to a friendly engineer who bored the top to 53mm and turned some (0.5mm thick) bushes for the bottom;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010664a.jpg

Forks now fit;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_0085a.jpg

Up until now I was planning a fairly standard Monster (other than the forks) but then I got tempted by the dark side of modifcations just as I did with the 916 (owned since new and very far from 'stock').

I then realised that resistance was futile and that I would only upgrade the standard parts soon after fitting them anyway, meaning I'd be buying double the amount of parts so I had a 'bugger it' change of plan moment.

I started to deviate from the plan...

[Dukedesmo]

So, I got to thinking about the engine and specifically the power, I know 2v Ducati engines are not high HP 'monsters' but as they are relatively unstressed was thinking that there must be more available.

Research showed me that there are several ways to improve the output of a 2v, including; big-bore, high compression pistons, cylinder head gas-flowing and split carbs on short intakes - I decided to do them all. :biggrin:

I'd already had my 916 heads gasflowed by Chris at CJS racing and seen a healthy 15hp+ increase so knew that he was the man for the job so the heads went off to CJS.

Cylinders were bored & replated by Langcourt to 944cc and suitable 94mm JE high-compression pistons were sourced.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010656a.jpg

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/94mm_hc_pistons.jpg

A pair of Keihin flatside FCR 41mm carbs were bought along with Malossi short intake manifolds to do away with the long intakes that hinder serious HP increases on these engines.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010363a.jpg

I 'discovered' that to take advantage of the short intakes and big carbs that I needed to replace the cams, ideal replacements being ST2 or 900ie cams and these proved difficult to find so I resorted to buying a complete ST2 engine to use as a 'cam donor'.

[Zak]

Wow! Dont stop the tale there! Keep going!

Z.

[Dukedesmo]

So having bought the FCR's and the short intakes, a test fit tells me that they don't fit.

The reason being that the diagonal brace in front of the vertical cylinder sits in the way of the horizontal cylinder carb body (and, yes I know the wrong carbs are fitted to the wrong intakes in this pic :o but I don't have another pic and you get the idea).

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010359a.jpg

So out with the grinder, cut it off - job done.

However with the brace removed the horizontal cylinder carb just touches the underside of the main cross member (battery support rail) in front of the vertical cylinder.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010375a.jpg

Machining off 5-6mm from the FCR intake adapter shortens the intake sufficiently to lower the horizontal (downdraft carb) to clear the cross member and at the same time causes no issues to the vertical cylinder's sidedraft carb.

Now in removing the diagonal I have made the frame less rigid and hearing some reports that Monster frames are already a little 'flexible' I decide to put some strength back into it.

The removed diagonal goes back in, but has to sit further back on the frame so not quite as stiff as the original. I also put another brace across the other diagonal although it can't quite sit corner-to-corner but the thinking being that two braces in slightly compromised locations are better than one compromised and certainly better than none.

The FCR mod does away with the airbox and having studied the airbox area, particularly the front part behind the headstock I can see why Monster frame is more flexible than the 888 from which it was derived - it's missing the front bracing which doesn't fit in the Monster design due to the airbox placement.

So taking inspiration from the 888 and, it's descendant, the 916 - I set to work with some steel tubing, grinder and mig-welder, and add some bracing in the headstock area;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010748a.jpg

I reckon this frame will be stiff enough now.

Also after this pic when still grinder in hand I cut off a few 'random' brackets that are no longer required to tidy it up a little.

Frame now needs painting/powdercoating but wanting to do just one more test fit of the carbs to make sure the fit is good so need to re-fit the heads to check - I may even fit another diagonal cross-brace across the top of the now defunct airbox zone if there's space and access to the carbs.

[Dukedesmo]

Wow! Dont stop the tale there! Keep going!

Z.

Thanks Zak, don't worry there's more just to get up to date and then it's still a work in progress. :thumbsup:

[Zimbo]

Good stuff, keep it coming, I will be watching this with interest!

[Saint aka ML]

Good stuff, keep it coming, I will be watching this with interest!

Zimbo how did out bore yours to 988cc?

[manwithredbike]

good article. i have a wee interest, i'm running your 'old' cams in mine : )

[Dukedesmo]

So to the rear end :chuckle: ...

As can be seen in one of the previous posts an aluminium swingarm was sourced to replace the original 600 steel version that came with the frame.

It fits nicely although required a longer wheel spindle because it is wider, so I had a custom machined hollow titanium spindle from http://www.ti64.co.uk/

The aluminium arm also required new chain tensioners as the 600 versions are smaller/different shape so I got some beautifully made billet aluminium adjusters from Motorize in Germany.

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15963&stc=1&d=1329575505

Picked up some ride height increase bolts from Louigimoto, as I know it will be too low in standard trim along with a new DP carbon fibre hugger and 5-spoke rear wheel from a 1000DS the rear end was (almost) sorted, or so I thought...

I then happened upon an 851/888 braced aluminium swingarm, there were a few chain grooves that needed repairing and it had the old-type (L-shaped) hugger mounting brackets whereas my hugger bolts into threaded inserts

But when it's put like this;

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15946&d=1329330997

How could I resist?...

Into the workshop for some repairs and modification - removal of the hugger brackets and fitting of nutserts for the new hugger (I know I could get a suitable hugger but I already had this one, it's new and it cost me as much as the swingarm and modifying it is free).

A new disc and a refurb of the caliper and it looks something like (well exactly like) this;

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15947&d=1329331284

The Sachs shock is a bit 'tired' and not really in keeping with my plans so it has been replaced by a shiny, new Ohlins DU440 although I'm still using the Sachs as a 'mule' to avoid scratching the new one whilst the spanners are flying around.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010317a.jpg

Having been 851/888 inspired and looking & drooling at pics of the race bikes I see that they mostly have a floating rear caliper setup, more research found such bike porn as this;

http://118.151.181.34/jp_images/images/catalogue/10096/ae_18001_998.jpg

By this point I'm in for a penny in for a pound (or two), so almost as fast as you could say "Aella casuno floating rear caliper mounting kit" here it is on the bike;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_0642a.jpg

to be continued...

[Zak]

Wow, wow, wow! Big respect!

I don't give credit unless truly deserved and you get a bucket load.

I'm really going to enjoy reading this and following it! I thought I'd gone a fair distance with mine but you've shown me how far I can go, you've given me some great ideas!!!!

Z.

[Saint aka ML]

Wow so that rear brake setup .... any more details?

Also you know you will probably end up having double rear end height spacers and will need longer shock?

My one is at maximum with a pair of adjusters and is still not as high as SS.

[Dukedesmo]

Wow so that rear brake setup .... any more details?



Well the caliper 'floats' better around the disc giving the same sort of effect as floating discs plus by being free on the axle and then held in place by the torque arm to the engine, any loading under braking is taken through the crankcase rather than the swingarm so the suspension is unaffected by heavy braking.

Ducati fitted this setup to the Monster 'S' IIRC.

However I doubt this translates as any real advantage, IIRC when they tested such setups on the 888 WSBK race bikes the results were inconclusive compared to the conventional setup, even at that level of rider ability. Subsequent SBK (916 on) don't have this setup either.

But just because we don't need or can't utilise something to it's full potential doesn't mean we don't want it.

I really like to look at and use items with a high degree of engineering in them - one of my favourite parts on my 916 are the Acculign rearsets, they have an amazingly engineered double eccentric adjustment system and yet (after the first setup) I never adjust them.

As for the ride height, I hope it'll be OK as I'm not planning on buying another shock. :shocked:

[Saint aka ML]

Well I would fit it for pure looks!!

[Nottsbiker]

Looks like a nice project bike in the making like I'd do if I didn't needed to waste, sorry spend it else where.

[Dukedesmo]

Front end...

Well already mentioned the forks and how the yokes needed some engineering to fit them, worth mentioning that although the bottom yoke shims are in fact made as a bush; ie completely circular, I will be taking a cut out of them vertically so that I can be certain of a good grip around the fork legs - I don't want them sliding up through the yokes when hard on the brakes. :eek:

Of course radial mounts need radial calipers and I found a good deal on a set of new Brembo M4 Monobloc calipers from an Aprilia dealer who was having a bit of a clearout.

These are the same calipers as fitted to 1198 except that the Aprilia versions are gold coloured rather than grey - combined with a Brembo RCS radial master cylinder and Brembo full-floating discs - I am not expecting the brakes to be wanting in any way.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010318a.jpg

I quite like the gold, a little bling is nice and they match the rear caliper too;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_0085a.jpg

You may notice in that that there's a 3-spoke wheel on there, but I want to match up with the rear and I prefer the look of and the lower weight (usually) of the more spindly spokes so, to this end I bought a 5-spoke front.

It's not the same design as the rear, rather it is from a MHe900 and is a nicer (IMO) wheel than the rear, and much lighter than the 3-spoke but as it's new, grey and got no bearings (or tyre) it's not fitted yet and is waiting for paint along with the frame and rear wheel before fitting with bearings, discs & tyre.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1010722a.jpg

Not quite decided on front mudguard yet, I have a new Monster DP carbon-fibre mudguard and also a DP 916 carbon mudguard, both fit (as does an 1198).

The Monster version is longer at the rear and so will keep the engine slightly cleaner and looks more 'Monstery' but the SBK version is more substantial at the sides and has better fork leg protection and since the 916 forks have slightly longer sliders they are more exposed to road debris but it is very short at the rear as the SBK models have fairings to keep the engine clean - so, for now the jury is out on this one.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_0750a.jpg

You will notice that this pic shows a black tank rather than the previous silver one, more on that in the next installment...

On to the steering damper; I don't know if it will need one? but I'm fitting one anyway.

I prefer the across the tank (916) style of damper to the long frame mounted version but it is proving more tricky to sort out.

I've got a suitable adjustable damper and a mixture of ST & (later) Monster mounting brackets and although none of the brackets are quite right, due mainly to the handlebar clamp bolt spacings being narrower on the early (like mine) Monster, I will be getting suitable bracket(s) made once I've finalised the how & where.

Here's a pic to give the general idea;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_0340a.jpg

It fits OK onto the frame (through the ignition lock bolts) but I need a bracket to suit the bar clamp spacings and also suitable spacer to get the height just right due to the forks being longer meaning that I need higher bar risers.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_0413a_original.jpg

This part is still under consideration though so likely to change.

More later...

[Dukedesmo]

Well I would fit it for pure looks!!

:thumbsup:

[Saint aka ML]

For longer forks I overcome it with bar risers but with angle change so my bars are up and back towards the tank.

It had an unexpected effect that I like of me sitting on a monster with feel more like supermotard then sports bike. Sweet as encourages supermoto style riding and improves visibility.

[Dukedesmo]

So, the basic layout of the bike established I need to look into the tank, 'bodywork' & colour.

Initially I was thinking red but then had a change of plan when I found a nice metallic silver tank, plus I already have a red Ducati. Either way the frame & wheels were always going to be black.

I then later found a new black Metallic tank and was smitten with it, black and sparkly and I like the dark, stealth, even mean look - Wife said it looks like a 'Devil bike'...

Metallica;

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15968&stc=1&d=1329576433

'Sparklies';

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15967&stc=1&d=1329576280

The tank is for a later model 'Monster Metallica' which are 900ie models so although it fits fine it has provision for internal electric fuel pump/filter etc so will require a little thinking to get it right for a carby bike.

I have an electric pump assembly and will run a 'loop' to the carbs with a return to the tank to ensure that they don't get over-pressurised (I understand FCR's tend to leak/overflow if the pressure is too high), hopefully this will work OK? if still too much then I will need to fit/devise some kind of pressure regulator or reducer.

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15966&d=1329576037

Anyway I'm glad to get rid of the external, mechanical fuel pump, tap & filter to reduce clutter and give me more cool air flow to the rear cylinder to help keep the temperature down.

Moving onto 'bodywork', not a faired bike but as you all know there are several plastic parts here & there and I'm a bit of a Carbon-fibre fan which, combined with the black bike look you can see where this is going; Carbon-fibre mudguard, hugger, side panels, seat cowl, belt covers, air 'deflectors', exhaust heat shields, number plate tray thingy and I've got a carbon fibre flyscreen that I will test for wind reduction and, assuming it helps in that area I will probably fit, unless it really spoils the look - again the jury is out on that one for now.

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15964&d=1329575735

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=15965&d=1329575747

To be continued...

[lukylac]

Maximum respect to your project! I'm very excited about the resut. Nice to read and see your pictures. No.1

[Nottsbiker]

I think that the black theme will really suit the bike, but the screen will ruin it in my humble opinion :)

[Dukedesmo]

I think that the black theme will really suit the bike, but the screen will ruin it in my humble opinion :)

Yes, I might agree with you on that. I'm torn between looks and practicality as some wind protection would be be nice.

I need to see and try the finished article both with and without...

[Nottsbiker]

If out were me I'd keep the fairing the shed and only fit it when I went on long trips like events and holidays etc.

Monsters are all about style after all ;)

[Zak]

If out were me I'd keep the fairing the shed and only fit it when I went on long trips like events and holidays etc.

Monsters are all about style after all ;)

Agreed! Fairing does nothing for a monsters looks.

Z.

[Nottsbiker]

I'm watching this with interest mate :)

Wish I could justify this kind of expenditure on my project, but have to spend big ££'s on a new kitchen / getting our house renovated first - after that I'll be straight on the phone to Mr Ohlins and co.

[mholc123]

OK I'm on nights and maybe I've missed it somewhere but dieing to know how this turned out. :banghead:

[Dukedesmo]

OK I'm on nights and maybe I've missed it somewhere but dieing to know how this turned out. :banghead:

Hope you weren't holding your breath? :mand:

Despite getting my flowed heads back some months ago, things did stall due to a couple of building projects - one of which was a workshop refurb which is now all done, so now I have no excuse.

The idea of getting it done for this year has now gone but I'm now aiming for a an over-winter project to be on the road in the spring.

To this end I actually made a new start yesterday with a minor alteration to the frame due to the float chamber of the vertical cylinder carb touching one of the cross-braces, which I know from experience (with a KTM) can only end badly when the bottom of the carb splits and fuel pours over the engine.:thumbsdown:

A few pics,

Cross brace moved slightly further forward;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1030017a.jpg

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1030019a.jpg

Still deciding whether to move the battery support cross member back by a few mm as the horizontal intake stack is very close and I'd be happier with more clearance plus it would be easier to fit an air filter;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1030015a.jpg

At least now I have a better working space, previously was cold, dark, damp & dusty.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1030021a.jpg

More updates (hopefully) soon. :thumbsup:

[Dookbob]

I just gotta hand it to ya Dukedesmo, this is going to be one absolutely gorgeous piece of mobile artwork. Come to think of it, it already is.

[Nottsbiker]

I'm currently doing C&G level 1 welding at night school so I'm following your bracing changes with much interest ;)

[gary tompkins]

I'm now suffering from a really bad attack of workshop envy :grump:

[Dukedesmo]

Still deciding whether to move the battery support cross member back by a few mm as the horizontal intake stack is very close and I'd be happier with more clearance plus it would be easier to fit an air filter;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/p1030015a.jpg



And there it was gone;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1090a.jpg

Got to be careful with new location as moving the battery back requires moving it up to clear the rocker cover, there's room under the tank but may need to angle the battery forwards slightly to be comfortable.

[gary tompkins]

Is there enough room to re-fit brace between the rocker cover and the battery, and still get access to and remove cover if needed for shim checks? If so... you could to flip the brace/ battery support tabs 180 degrees and mount it facing forward.

Would be a lot easier to visualise space available with the battery box offered up into position

[Dukedesmo]

No, as it would be virtually touching the rocker cover and because the frame rails drop down it would also sit on the intake manifold.

I'm going to move it back by 15mm (in line with the vertical rail below) this gives space for an air filter on the rear carb and, with the battery raised a few mm, clears the rocker cover whilst still fitting under the tank. This is based on a standard sized battery, just need to get some suitable tube as the cut-out piece is too short.

Then need to devise somewhere to fit the under-tank stuff such as ignition module & coils as the rear filter will sit up against the battery, but there is plenty of space in front of the carbs.

[Kato]

This is how I did it, using the original brace that went across the frame, the battery holder sits on the two tabs, however I have now moved it and the battery sits under the seat, will take a picture later.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/kato--/carbies.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/kato--/carbies2.jpg

[Dukedesmo]

Interesting, do you have any higher res pics of the cross-brace area? be interested to see your new battery setup too. :thumbsup:

[Saint aka ML]

While you two are here good, ready made spark plug cables and cups any suggestions? To fit monster and dyna coils.

[Kato]

Magnecor

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/pricing/ccp/magnecor-leads-ccp.asp

[Dukedesmo]

I have Taylor Silicone leads/Dynacoils/Ignitech, look good and I'm sure they'll work fine but not fitted yet.

[Dukedesmo]

So made a new brace and fitted 15mm further back;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1102a.jpg

Filter now fits over the intake stack;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1108a.jpg

Battery is a tight fit, especially as I'm planning to use a 'Motobatt' which is 3mm thicker than the Yuasa but it clears the underside of the tank, although I need to lift it around 10mm to clear the rocker cover but as long as I'm careful with the battery box dimensions there should be no issue.

Next step to strip down to bare frame to get the welding finished and frame blasted/painted, although probably do another test assembly first just to be sure.

[utopia]

I'm liking your taste in workshop rugs.

[Dukedesmo]

I'm liking your taste in workshop rugs.

'Borrowed' from the house, although not ideal if much grinding or welding goes on - may be slightly 'workshop soiled' after the antics of the last few days... :rolleyes:

[Dukedesmo]

So, engine removed & bare frame now fully welded & cleaned up. Test fit of engine shows clearance around carbs etc is good and I'm ready for paint.

I'm thinking powder coat would be a better finish and will be doing frame, wheels and suspension hoop. A a couple of questions for those in the know;

My front wheel is new and so no bearings fitted - how best to protect bearing holes from paint?

Rear wheel is used and has bearings and cush drives, although I will be replacing both. I will remove the cush drives before paint as I can see removal being a job that could result in scratching but (returning to the first question re new wheel) would it be good to leave the bearings in to protect the bearing faces? Same applies to head bearing races in the headstock?

With the frame, I have heard horror stories of powder coating hiding frame numbers, thus making MOT etc a problem, how best to 'mask' the frame number?

Presumably a good powder coater would know all the above so can anyone recommend a good painter, preferably in the East Midlands (Leics, Notts, Lincs etc)? although I don't mind travelling for a quality job.

One more thing, there is a small tab on the right side of the frame near to the shock mount that looks like it maybe a problem to paint due to the small gap between it and the frame. Can anyone tell me what it's for and if I need it, or can cut it off for a cleaner look?

Pic of said frame tab;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1150a.jpg

[slob]

tab is for the taillight/rear indicator connector block

[Albie]

That tab is what you use to keep connectors tidy to the frame. That one may well be the rear brake light switch connector. The connector has a moulded part which just slips over the tab. There should be about 3-4 across the frame. Just bend it a bit to get paint on it and gently bend back once painted.

Powdercoats cheaper and tougher, but as you said can be annoying if they do too thick in some areas. Paint is good but more expensive to get done.

[Reaperman]

I took my monster to Morton industrial coatings in Langley mill. Bloke by the name of Darren near the cricket ground. Brilliant job and he did my frame, swingarm and a thousand other bits.

Nice bloke but usually over run with stuff to do. Oh and he does a really good price and shot blasting is included in the deal.

[gary tompkins]

I would mask wheel hubs with a couple of drilled metal discs cut from thin steel or aluminium sheet. You can clamp these either side with studding or long bolt & nuts through the spindle hole. If oven doesn't get too hot even 10mm thick plywood may do the job

[Dukedesmo]

Thanks for the replies. :thumbsup:

I've just spent the last hour removing the cush drives - they're a tight fit aren't they? Popped out nicely though and without any damage, just hope I can get the new ones in with no scratches.

[Dukedesmo]

So, I got the frame, wheels and hoop back today from powdercoating.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/frame01.jpg

Fitted new bearings & cush drives to the wheels and in the process of fitting new steering head bearings.

Had some difficulty removing bearing from stem and had to grind it until I could split it, in doing so cut the large washer that was under it - is this required? as far as I can see it only acts as some sort of seal and I have a new seal which is smaller than the washer but would sit in the head race.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/stem.jpg

Does the washer act as some kind of shim/spacer?

[gary tompkins]

I would guess it's there for a good reason - otherwise why fit it in the first place? My money would be on some kind of spacer needed for clearance, and it could also protect the soft alloy of the lower yoke from any wear and tear. Powdercoating looks good :thumbsup:

[Dukedesmo]

If it's only a spacer/protection for the aluminium against the frame then I can use it as is, the groove won't affect it. I'll happily buy a new washer but I doubt it'll be in stock anywhere?

There is no seal in there either top or bottom, yet I got 2 seals with the bearings. I don't suppose much water gets in past the top washer anyway plus I try not to ride in the rain and I'll pack it all with plenty of grease, so Just wondering whether to fit the seals or not?

Whatever I do I need to decide before I fit the bearings.

Otherwise next job is the engine, since I've overbored, gasflowed, high-comp'd and FCR'd I reckon it might be wise to refresh the bearings etc on a 17 yr old engine! (although I can't 'feel' any wear in the crank).

Also looking to get the crank balanced as my understanding is that the factory balancing is not great in the first place so with new (lighter) pistons it's unlikely to be right.

Here's how the engine looks at the moment;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/engine.jpg

[Bigxr]

Great thread, thanks for posting this. It's a great insight into all the work that goes into a fantastic looking bike. :thumbsup:

[littlejimmy12]

Not that you need telling, bubblewrap/protect the frame when refitting everything. Looking good.

And I see you also went for the wooden engine stand.

[Dukedesmo]

So with the steering head washer 'repaired' to save waiting for the inevitable back-order I moved on to the engine.

After some bolt removal, pulley pulling, tapping & prying I got this;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/case1.jpg

Which now looks like this;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/case2.jpg

At least the infamous aluminium oil galley plug is still in place;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/crank1.jpg

Looking to replace bearings and seals as, despite everything looking good, I reckon at 17yrs and mileage/maintenance unknown it's probably about time, especially now it's apart.

Don't know if I can source all the bearings from a bearing supplier or if I need to get some from Ducati? Those main bearings look expensive...

Can't see any wear in the crank but will examine further and check tolerances etc, then get it balanced to the new pistons.

[Capo]

You best be getting the mains from Ducati, they are radial contact and there are three different contact angles available. Expensive yes but not much difference from Ducati.

[Dukedesmo]

Thanks, I called into a nearby Ducati centre today, bearing prices are more reasonable than I thought.

I'm going to opt out of fitting/shimming them myself and get expert help on this job to ensure the endfloats are spot-on, don't want to risk cocking it up and the engine seizing after a few months.

[Capo]

Indeed accurate preload on the mains is essential for longevity. There are other shafts that also require shimming.

GTEC Performancei s just down the road from you

http://gtecperformance.co.uk/ducati_engine_re-builds.htm

[fuelline]

Great thread, looking forward to seeing this finished.

[Nottsbiker]

You are way ahead of me but doing pretty much the same project :)

I'd like to pop round one day nest year if thats ok to have a chat over what you've done and any hints and tips you could give? No rush as I cant spare the cash on the bike when I live in a medieval barn, sorry house rennovation......

Looks good btw!

[Dukedesmo]

I'd like to pop round one day nest year if thats ok to have a chat over what you've done and any hints and tips you could give?

No problem, look forward to seeing you :thumbsup:

By the time you do, hopefully it'll be alive... :rolleyes:

:chuckle:

[Nottsbiker]

Unless the lottery goes my way sometime soon yours will definately be done before mine.

I'm 'almost' tempted to get another engine to use to get mine mobile, but spending £500+ on a random lump is galling as I'd much rather invest that in my own.

[fuelline]

Unless the lottery goes my way sometime soon yours will definately be done before mine.

I'm 'almost' tempted to get another engine to use to get mine mobile, but spending £500+ on a random lump is galling as I'd much rather invest that in my own.

Indeed a secondhand engine with all the promises in the world will only cost you more...a lot more than you were expecting to spend. You just need to be prepared to stick your hand in your pocket. Don't ask how I know. :rolleyes::p

[bluestoesonnose]

2x on that last comment

Been there done that with motors, it's easier and cheaper to fix what you have, unless it's FUBAR

[Dukedesmo]

Been slow lately but did get the wheels assembled & ready to fit;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/wheels.png

Also got the engine cases painted before taking them to a professional to rebuild the bottom end, including crank balance.

Used VHT paint on cases, cylinders, heads & rocker covers and then baked for 1hr at 200 degrees.

Who said a term of 'domestic science' was a waste of time at School? :chuckle:

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1353a.jpg

Fit nicely in the oven, did them late at night so as not to taint the dinner. :rolleyes:

Turned out OK;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1356a.jpg

Picked up bottom end today, couldn't resist a 'test' fit to see how it looks;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1380a.jpg

Looking to get the heads built up and then put it together, checking squish etc. before starting on actually building the bike.

[Petej]

That engine looks absolutely superb, I'd love to be knowledgable enough to do the same to mine! But the stripping of the engine would lose me!

Superb!

[bluestoesonnose]

Loving this build, keep up the good work

[Capo]

Quality work

[gary tompkins]

Trouble with rebuilds this good.. it seems a shame to ride them and get it dirty afterwards

[Dukedesmo]

Trouble with rebuilds this good.. it seems a shame to ride them and get it dirty afterwards

Well 2 years and counting and I've not ridden it yet, so don't hold your breath. :chuckle:

Anyway, inspired to actually ride it next summer, I've been assembling the heads; new bearings, valve stem seals, fitted/shimmed the rocker shafts & rockers, MBP retainers and valves

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1392a.jpg

Still need to adjust the valve clearances but struggling with that as I've only got a small selection of shims so put them together with what I'd got so that I can claim a small victory.

[Duc600mon]

great thread, your bike is coming on well!

[daz4004]

a small question when you painted the engine with vht did you need to etch prime first and then just sprayed with vht paint,as i have used vht paint before and found it was very easy to scrap off,any advised on engine paint would be good ie engine colour and make of vht paint and prep cheers.loving you build looking forward to see you finshed job.

[Dukedesmo]

I did use etch primer on the crankcase halves and then VHT paint over the top but then read (on the can) that the VHT should be straight on the metal? so did the heads & cylinders without primer but blasted to get a good surface.

Also not sure how heat resistant etch primer is but the cases don't get as hot hot as the heads anyway.

I am actually wondering if VHT is too soft and if I should use some kind of clear coat over it?

At the moment I have the case side covers done in etch prime whilst I'm deciding on what colour/finish to do them...

[utopia]

I've also found that vht paint seems a little soft at first, particularly when dry but not cured.
Its harder after heat curing, but I think it carries on getting harder with subsequent heat and time, beyond an hour or so in the oven.

I did my new, bare ally reg/rec in halfords vht recently.
I dunno how hot it actually gets, but better safe than sorry...and no primer needed either.
Obviously, I couldn't cure it in the oven.
I did leave it as close as I dared to the radiator for a day or so, but it was still soft and marked easily when I was fitting it.
I pondered a clear laquer at the time, but it was fitted by then, so I left it.
Since then it seems to have hardened up in use though, and I've noticed no further stone chips etc (its mounted under the headstock, so it does get a bit of a peppering). I haven't exactly scratched at it or anything, so I don't really know, but it still looks fine, after a couple of years in use.
Don't take my word for it, but I think it gets harder.

Incidently, halfords vht range contains (and I used) a rather nice matt charcoal colour (I think they actually call it black), with a tiny metallic sparkle, that looks good if you're after a kind of stealth bling.

[daz4004]

thanks guys for that i think ill have to have a go with halford paint and give it some heat thanks again

[Dukedesmo]

So, after a short break (servicing the 916 and the inevitable waiting for parts), I got back on the build today and fitted the pistons, barrels, heads & belts;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/eng01.jpg

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/eng02.jpg

Next job is to check/alter the cam timing and then the engine can go into the frame to start building an actual bike, I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel now...

[nuttynick]

Nice build!

[utopia]

How do you plan to adjust the valve timing, if you should need to ?
I was half expecting to see the adjustable type belt pulleys in there, but you have the solid ones.
Not that I have any experience myself, beyond noting pictures of the two different types in the Haynes manual.
I've often wondered whether its worth changing my solid pulleys for the adjustable type, simply to be able to fine tune the valve timing....but up to now I've chickened out.
Then again, you wouldn't want the adjuster bolts to work loose, so maybe solid is safer.

A stepped key is the only other method I can think of, but that sounds like you could end up taking ages to get one that was just right......though I've never done that myself either.
But at least it couldn't slip, I guess.

[Dukedesmo]

How do you plan to adjust the valve timing, if you should need to ?
I was half expecting to see the adjustable type belt pulleys in there, but you have the solid ones.


Well spotted, I have actually got some adjustable pulleys but, for now I've fitted the originals as I want to see by how much (if at all) they need adjusting.

I should add that I'm taking it to a professional for the timing as I don't have the kit or experience, and whilst I'm sure I could figure it out, I reckon it would probably cost me as much plus I'll rest easier knowing that it's right first time. :thumbsup:

[utopia]

Its probably sensible to leave it to an experienced professional, though it does mean that you have to have someone in mind who you can trust to do a good job.
Having occaisionally come across trained factory mechanics who fall short of the mark, I still tend to have more confidence my own work, even if my inexperience means that the job takes ages.
I dunno what kit you'd need, but I have a small dti gauge which might be useful. I'd be happy to loan it if you should fancy just checking it over yourself afterwards....just to be absolutely sure.
Thats possibly a bit excessive, but the offer's there if its any use to you.
I'm not far from you, so I could pop it over easily.

[Dukedesmo]

Thanks for the offer! although I have got a dti gauge but would need the correct mounting brackets, timing wheel and no doubt a few other things, not to mention the all important know-how. All-in-all probably not worth the bother for a one-off job.

I know what you mean about trusting other mechanics though and that is one reason I do all (well, most) of my own work but as this is a job that I want absolutely spot-on, otherwise I could just leave it as it is which would be good enough (it's good enough for Ducati in the first place) but as with the crank shimming I'll be trusting this to an expert, someone that I know will do a proper job. :thumbsup:

[andyboy]

Really impressed with the qualty of this build,any chance it will be ready for the weekender
would be great to see it the flesh. Keep up the good work:biggrin:

[Albie]

Really impressed with the qualty of this build,any chance it will be ready for the weekender
would be great to see it the flesh. Keep up the good work:biggrin:

Yes try and get it there please. Be good to see ..:ukm:

[Dukedesmo]

Thanks, I'd like to think it would be finished by May but I'll have to pull my finger out.

Will try to make an appearance if possible. :)

[Spike]

Who are you getting to do the timing work, I'd recomend GTECH as they're quite local to the area.

[Dukedesmo]

Got the timing checked at Cornerspeed, didn't need adjusting - rear cyl was spot on and front so near that it wasn't worth moving.

That out of the way I started putting a few bits together today, starting to look like a bike again;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1605b.jpg

[Nottsbiker]

I like this project, mainly because it is on very similar lines to what I intend on doing (one day).

The upgraded parts that look stock are my favourite part :)

[Kato]

Liking this a lot mate really nice work

[Dukedesmo]

So today I made a start on the wiring loom but needed to sort out a battery holder to start from so I cut up the battery box part of the old airbox, reinforced the base by 'sandwiching' it with a couple of bits of aluminium plate (otherwise it was flexing badly due to having lost all it's support) and fitted the carbs so that I can position things in the former airbox area.

Battery is a tight fit between cylinder head and tank but box works fine although I'll probably make a new custom box with extra mounting points etc from aluminium sheet eventually.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1624a.jpg

Wiring loom is from the '99 frame rather than the '95 engine and so has a few differences; a 1-wire neutral switch and a 'mystery' 2 pin plug on a long cable.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1627a_original.jpg

I'm thinking this maybe a sidestand switch connector? but need to investigate further.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1625a.jpg

Other than the above mentioned long plug I think I've identified all the connectors but I do need to extend a few leads and modify others, for example the fuel tank connector only has a fuel level connection and I also need to power an electric fuel pump which will need a relay fitting somewhere.

I'm not using the Monster instruments (don't even have them) so thinking on whether to get a connector for the 12 pin metal plug to connect up my dash or may just cut it off and fit the appropriate connectors to the wires I need to save some complication.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1626a.jpg

Moved coils and solenoid to the front of the 'void' as there is no space at the rear due to having moved the battery backwards and lower plus having to leave some space for the horizontal cylinders vertical air filter. Ignitech box mounted just in front of the battery - away from the coils as I understand they can cause interference if fitted to close?

Also need to fabricate a bracket of some sort to hold a couple of extra components; relays, headlight ballast etc so the component layout is still 'experimental' at the moment.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1629a.jpg

More tomorrow...

[Blah blah]

Wiring loom is from the '99 frame rather than the '95 engine and so has a few differences; a 1-wire neutral switch and a 'mystery' 2 pin plug on a long cable.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1627a_original.jpg

I'm thinking this maybe a sidestand switch connector? but need to investigate further.
.

Looks a bit like the oil pressure switch connector thingy

[Dukedesmo]

Looks a bit like the oil pressure switch connector thingy

Does a bit but it's a bad picture, it's actually a 2-way plug but seen from the side.

Wiring is not the most exciting subject but have been test fitting various parts today to see how they fit with each other and have, for now got something more resembling a bike.

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/attachment.php?attachmentid=16862&d=1361392273

[Pedro]

Looks a bit like the oil pressure switch connector thingy

I'd say side stand switch

[DrD]

Side stand and Rear Brake Liight switch use same type of connector - given the location side stand.

[Dukedesmo]

Mystery cable is for the sidestand, not a starter preventing switch just a stand down indicator.

Anyway as the airbox is no more I've been busy relocating electrical bits because it's getting a bit cramped under the tank.

Made a stainless steel mounting plate for the coils to fit them at the front. Ignition module and headlight relay by the battery;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1637a.jpg

Needed more space for the starter solenoid, headlight ballast & fuel pump relay, used a piece of carbon-fibre for the 'upper deck';

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1643a.jpg

Now that everything's connected, I need to sort out the mass of wiring which is starting to look like a plate of spaghetti, 'Spaghetti Bolognese' if you like;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1645a.jpg

Made a mounting bracket for the dash.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1651a.jpg

164mph, not bad for an air cooled Monster.

Night time view;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1657a.jpg

[Petej]

What a superb project, enjoying this thread, keep it coming!!!!!!

Pete

[Dukedesmo]

Not got much done for a couple of days but was test fitting a few parts today and found a couple of problems:

1. Headlight has no threads in the mounting holes, just large square holes in the side of the casing - don't know if it is a proper Monster headlight that they're missing from or what? Are these inserts or part of the light housing? Also need to get/make some support brackets for the screen, if I'm fitting it.

2. Fitted the exhaust which looks good, but when tightening up the manifold nuts the exhaust pipes are loose in the cylinder head - the pipes are not pulling in enough, only by a couple of mm but they wobble around. Have tried with 2 manifold gaskets and sits OK albeit a few mm further out of the head but I reckon I can 'compress' the gaskets with a good torquing of the nuts to get a good position - anyone had a similar problem?

Here's what it looks like now;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1659a.jpg

[Petej]

In my honest opinion.... I'd go without the screen, just don't suit the monster personally.

Pete

[buffalo4]

Hi, have you used Renthal Flat Bars?
Cheers Ian

[Dukedesmo]

Hi, have you used Renthal Flat Bars?
Cheers Ian

Yes, I had to use risers so that the bars would clear the fork tops (916 forks are longer than Monster forks plus they have long adjusters on top) this meant that normal bars in risers would be too high, the flat bars put your hands at roughly the same height as standard bars without risers. Plus I like the look of the flat bars.

[Dukedesmo]

In my honest opinion.... I'd go without the screen, just don't suit the monster personally.

Pete

I'm still undecided but I quite like the idea of a little wind protection. Easy enough to remove though...

[Petej]

I'm still undecided but I quite like the idea of a little wind protection. Easy enough to remove though...

Exactly, I've kept mine and should I do long distance it's only a quick switch!

[Kato]

Needed more space for the starter solenoid, headlight ballast & fuel pump relay, used a piece of carbon-fibre for the 'upper deck';

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1643a.jpg

Now that everything's connected, I need to sort out the mass of wiring which is starting to look like a plate of spaghetti, 'Spaghetti Bolognese' if you like;



My concern looking at that would be that ram pipe spitting fuel (cold engine / FCR's = fuel and fire spitting) over those nicely placed electrics, are you planning some sort of guard

[Dukedesmo]

My concern looking at that would be that ram pipe spitting fuel (cold engine / FCR's = fuel and fire spitting) over those nicely placed electrics, are you planning some sort of guard

Actually that picture is deceptive as the carb intake is well below the electrics - the coil is mounted near the top of the frame void and the relays etc even higher, the only risk would be if the air filter catches fire! :eek: Maybe some shields in front of/above the carbs would be a good idea though?

[buffalo4]

I'm liking this alot :biggrin:

[Dukedesmo]

So been doing the 'little' jobs over the last few days, you know those small and easy jobs that will only take 5 minutes but end up taking most of the day - like fitting brake fluid reservoirs, seat locking mechanism etc most of which I've had to fabricate something due to having non-standard parts or bits missing.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1707a.jpg

Had to remove most of the wiring to get the throttle cables fitted to the carbs but all back in place now just need to tidy up the wiring to the frame.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1701a.jpg

One thing on the exhausts, the link pipes push into the mid-pipe but are a little loose. There is no means of fixing; no springs or cut in the outer bore to allow it to close up with a clamp so what is the normal approach? - exhaust sealant? I'm considering welding on a couple of spring tabs to pull them together like at the can to mid-pipe joint. Seems odd that Ducati didn't do this but I suppose the stock low-level pipes maybe a tighter fit?

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1709a.jpg

[Jan (Belgium)]

I remember having the original clamps on my old 800 with high level termignoni's.

[Dukedesmo]

I remember having the original clamps on my old 800 with high level termignoni's.

On the joint between the mid-pipe and high level? (near the stand in the last pic).

I could use a clamp but would really need to cut a couple of slots into the outer pipe so that it could flex in to grip the high level pipe inside...

[Blah blah]

Made a mounting bracket for the dash.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1651a.jpg

164mph, not bad for an air cooled Monster.



Very nice, one question... why's it wired to the door handle ?? :scratch::D

I didn't bring a coat, I'll let myself out...

[slob]

My high Termis have the stock clamps on that join.

[Pomp1]

Is it me or the key barrell is upside down? :D

[Dukedesmo]

Is it me or the key barrell is upside down? :D

The writing is the wrong way up but everything works OK, the ignition lock is from a 996 so maybe original Monster versions have the writing t'other way round... :scratch:

[Dukedesmo]

My high Termis have the stock clamps on that join.

If I get some quality clamps on them maybe they'll compress enough for a tight fit? Actually only the right side is a bit wobbly, the left is fine. I could use sealant but then it'll be a struggle to take off in the future...

[Dukedesmo]

Very nice, one question... why's it wired to the door handle ?? :scratch::D

I didn't bring a coat, I'll let myself out...

New security system, hotwired to the door handle - try to steal the bike or open the door and...

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/image.php?u=3264&dateline=1288467795

;)

[utopia]

On the pipes.....
My pipes look identical to yours (apart from mine being titanium) and have the same surprising lack of spring hooks at the lower joint.
When I first fitted them, they were able to flap in and out a little, between the can clamp and the aforementioned lower joint. This in turn meant that the back end of the cans flapped in and out in opposition, and clattered against my number plate.
As a temporary measure, I hooked tension springs to pull the link pipes inwards to a point on the frame, thus spreading the ends of the cans. It would only pull a little way, before locking.
Another problem then surfaced.....
I think due to the weight of the std cans and their upswept angle, the joint to the headers is more leak proof. Also the can bracket is much more rigid and closer.
With my cans, or at least on one side anyway, the pressure pulses in the cans were sometimes enough to drag the can backwards through its clamp and open the joint to which you refer (not completely, but it would move about 8 or 10mm backwards.
And the pipes are straight through, ie no restrictive baffles/db killers or anything to catch the pulses.
I was a bit miffed as there is now a mark on one of my cans where it has slid back in its clamp a few times. I think it only happens when I give it a handful.

Anyway, the upshot is that I have been planning to have some spring loops welded on at the lower joint, as you suggest, for ages now, but I haven't yet located a welder who is both reliable and willing to do such a tiny job.
So my long considered opinion is....do it now, before you mark your cans.
Personally, I wouldn't fancy slotting the pipes and fitting clamps, as those type of joints are a pain to separate sometimes.

On the screen..and the quickly detacheable option.....
I have the same top yoke as your currently fitted one, and I made a very short screen from an old broken one, which has two broad, u-shaped sidepieces in thin ally sheet (2mm ?) which loop round (backwards and inwards) and fix to the holes in the front of the top yoke.
Yes I know....a pic is required but, well, sorry.
But the point is that this screen is rigid enough to fit with just one 6mm bolt either side, so its on and off in seconds. It doesn't flap, nor affect the headlamp adjustment or rim removal or anything.
Looks a bit like the screen on the Norton cafe racer maybe (which is another suggestion, actually).
It doesn't do a lot, but what it does do is significant...and it keeps the crap and rain off the back of the instruments too....without looking quite so much like a screen.
I think I had those guzzi le mans in mind when I cut the screen.
Anyway, maybe I'll sort out how to post my pics, or even bump into you sometime when the weather improves, and you can see it. (Ashby Follville maybe...?)

[Dukedesmo]

The right side can flaps about, the left not so much but with heat, vibration & movement I can see it being a problem on both.

I agree the best solution would be springs and it's an easy enough job to do so I'll be welding some loops on.

As for the screen, I've made a couple of 'L' shaped brackets that bolt to the side holes and then to the 6mm threaded holes in the front of the yoke, so just those and the headlight bolts are all that's required to remove - an easy enough job but it does leave the rear of the dash exposed or at least the ally mounting plate and warning lights so I will be leaving it on, at least initially. I think it looks OK personally and some wind protection is always good.

Often planned to go to Ashby Folville but never made it, despite it only being 10-15 minutes away. Will try to get over sometime this year. :thumbsup:

[Jan (Belgium)]

On the joint between the mid-pipe and high level? (near the stand in the last pic).

I could use a clamp but would really need to cut a couple of slots into the outer pipe so that it could flex in to grip the high level pipe inside...


Yes, on the mid pipe near the end of the stand in your last picture
I didn't have any slots cut into the pipe though, everything just fitted nicely.
Only thing I did was put some copper grease on the inner part - heat resistant and made it very easy to remove the pipes afterwards in case I wanted to give them a good clean.

[Dukedesmo]

Spring loops fitted;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1718a.jpg

There's still a little movement at the joint on the right side as the fit between the pipes is a bit loose but it won't be falling out, may use some sealant on final assembly. :thumbsup:

[slob]

That looks much tidier than the stock clamp. A few people on here have recommended clear silicone sealant, as it is flexible and withstands high temperatures whereas exhaust sealants tend to harden completely and will then crack and blow out.

ps you're never going to stop from 164 before you hit the step-ladder!

[Black Bob]

Just spent best part of an hour reading this, and am awestruck.

Just. Brilliant.

[utopia]

Proper job.
So, the big question that I'm dying to ask.....does it stop the cans flapping or just keep them fully engaged ?

And I'm the same about Ashby Folville...never been despite only 20mins away.

[bluestoesonnose]

If you put three on it keeps them engaged if you have a good fitting slip joint. If your not planning on taking them apart on a regular basis then some clear silicone will stop any pop back and black soot around the joint.

[He11cat]

new security system, hotwired to the door handle - try to steal the bike or open the door and...

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/image.php?u=3264&dateline=1288467795

;)

love it !!!!!!!!!!

[He11cat]

Loving the pipes as well...
You have cracked on with this my dear !

[Dukedesmo]

Proper job.
So, the big question that I'm dying to ask.....does it stop the cans flapping or just keep them fully engaged ?



The right can is still a bit wobbly as the slip joint is a bit loose so it 'pivots' in there, I have tightened it up a little and it's not as bad but I'm not fully happy with it.

Maybe some silicone/sealant will steady it, I once assembled my 916 exhaust with 'Gun gum' to seal some minor leaks and it worked great - except it was a pig to take apart later but these are more accessible and only 1 pipe at a time (916 has 2 pipes together). Or I could fit another spring on the outside?

[Dukedesmo]

If you put three on it keeps them engaged if you have a good fitting slip joint.

Three what, springs? :scratch:

[Dukedesmo]

You have cracked on with this my dear !

;) 2 1/2 years in the making, although I've made alot of progress recently. Hoping to be done by May...

[He11cat]

Better to take your time and be happy then blunder through and then not be happy and start sorting stuff out again ...

It's doesn't matter if it takes years its what you have at the end of that time :)
That's going to be one quality top build .

[utopia]

The right can is still a bit wobbly as the slip joint is a bit loose so it 'pivots' in there, I have tightened it up a little and it's not as bad but I'm not fully happy with it.
Maybe some silicone/sealant will steady it, .... Or I could fit another spring on the outside?


Actually, I now remember that I had pondered setting the spring loops so that the spring pulled at a slight angle across the joint, so as to impart a slight inward twist to the link pipes.
Sorry, I should've remembered that bit earlier, although it may not be enough of a twist to actually work, but then again it might, and every little bit helps.
As I said before, mine lock solid when they're twisted inwards, and in what looks like the right position too.

[Dukedesmo]

So, as a test I fitted a couple of clamps to the slip joint. Need to go very tight to actually do anything but, combined with the springs it holds it nice and solid.

Very much a 'belt & braces' approach but stops the cans moving about...

[Dukedesmo]

So finally got the oil pump fitted and engine closed up, spent ages fitting the belt covers (don't let anyone tell you Ducati carbon fibre is the best) as the holes didn't line up or have inserts in them but got it done and finally built the bike up.

Fuel tank leaked from the sender/pump connection as the nut was mangled and wouldn't thread straight, luckily I'd bought a spare billet alloy replacement nut some years back for the 916 but never fitted it and that solved the problem. So having tested the fuel pump/connectors etc. I decided to give it a go.

Took a few cranks but it started up, runs a bit lumpy and pops, farts & backfires at low RPM but it's running, sounds good at higher RPM and picks up nicely but the front cylinder exhaust is much hotter that the rear so I need to sort this out.

Not sure if the rough running is down to the carbs or ignition but no leaks and it didn't go 'pop' so I'm happy for now.

As it looks now;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_1767a_original.jpg

The white cable coiled up by the tank is a USB cable to the Ignitech ignition so that I can make changes without having to lift the tank to connect/disconnect.

I'm new to the Ignitech and found the manual a bit vague but with an updated version courtesy of Liam at Fast Bike Gear http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/ along with his suggestions of where to start with the advance I reckon I've got the hang of it.

Still want to fit a TPS to the carbs to get a better ignition setup and that's a job on the 'to do' list. BTW anybody with Ignitech unit wanting a better manual should contact Liam for his updated version. :thumbsup:

[Nottsbiker]

Looks mint mate - well done!

Not a fan of the fairing or the high levels but thats just my personal taste.

I see you have a wavey rear disk, are you getting fronts to match?

[Dukedesmo]

Looks mint mate - well done!

Not a fan of the fairing or the high levels but thats just my personal taste.

I see you have a wavey rear disk, are you getting fronts to match?

Thanks, I always wanted the hi-levels and the fairing has grown on me plus it helps with a few issues.

Not getting wavey fronts, actually don't really like wavey discs but they're lighter and I'm not much of a rear brake user so happy to fit one at the back but not at the front.

Still working on the steering damper mount and the bike leans a bit too far on the stand for my liking but I may need to alter the ride height yet as I have the rear riser bolts and there is quite a lot of 'extra' thread on the rod ends that I may need to remove before extending the stand.

Still quite a few jobs on the 'to-do' list but I just couldn't resist firing it up. :D

[Phatty]

Stunning! Awesome build thread too.

[Dookbob]

Hats off to you DUKEDESMO on a lovely thorough rebuild.

[Akita Boy]

Great looking bike. Top marks.

[slob]

Sweet as, great work.

[Dukedesmo]

Took the bike to the dyno this week to see if I could get it setup but it was popping and farting too much due to inconsistent timing, was like riding a bucking bronco to get there.

Anyway whilst there we tested it with a standard Ducati ignition setup and it ran nice & clean making good power on the run-up, although a tad lean but it wasn't having it with the ignitech.

Back home and I'm messing around with the ignition and we had noticed that my laptop was doing a few odd things with the ignitech software whilst at the dyno so I loaded it onto another laptop and made a new map with the same settings, loaded that and bingo it runs.

Still pops on the overrun, slight improvement after fitting the larger main jets that I got from the dyno shop but it's rideable.

A quick run to calibrate the speedo (need to ride at a known 30mph to get it reading correct) and I return with an oil leak, fortunately turns out to be from the oil cooler fitting crush washer seeping so tighten it up and now leak free, replace melted fuel overflow line - was touching the head :o and out for a proper ride around my local 'test track' approx 70 miles.

Other than popping on the overrun, occasional spitting back through the carbs at low speed/RPM and a slight surging under 5k it ran very well and it's now loosening up some from the rebuild, a little anti-social with the noise and I got quite a few 'looks' but a good result overall.

Suspension is a bit harsh so I need to get into that, may need softer springs at the front as the forks are ex my 916 and whilst they worked very well on that (although maybe a tad soft) the Monster should be around 20kg lighter. Getting these things right is likely to take me more time as best to make small changes one at a time I guess. I've already changed too much in one go with the build so I reckon I'll be a while optimising everything.

Next step is to get back to the dyno to optimise the fuelling & ignition timing and see what it'll make. :thumbsup:

[slob]

Awesome... Are you going to bring it over to the weekender on the 5th? I'd love to see it in the flesh

[Dukedesmo]

Possibly, hopefully if everything's working well enough. I take it the weekender is on both Sat and Sun?

I'd only be a day tripper but I'll certainly try to make it. :thumbsup:

[slob]

Billiant, this thread has been an inspiration

[Spike]

Great rebuild, I've loved reading it, will have to catch up with you and Utopia at some time.

[Dukedesmo]

So, back to the dyno today. Changed a few things, bigger carb main jets and adjusted the the air and pilot jets, still running a tad lean at lower RPM so need to up the pilot jets but, finally it's running cleanly and pulling strong at all speeds - no more backfiring through the carbs at low revs and just a 'nice' amount of popping on the overrun.

Had a problem with the dash cutting out which seems to have been caused by a loose fuseholder, hopefully all sorted now.

Not quite 100%, but probably 95% there now and certainly enjoyable to ride rather than just 'challenging' especially at low revs when pulling away from standstill as I don't need to slowly feed in the revs any more to prevent stalling.

Engine's still got less than 200 miles since rebuild so maybe still a little tight but making 90hp and 68lb/ft so not too shabby either and certainly enough to make the front end feel a little light.

[Albie]

So, back to the dyno today. Changed a few things, bigger carb main jets and adjusted the the air and pilot jets, still running a tad lean at lower RPM so need to up the pilot jets but, finally it's running cleanly and pulling strong at all speeds - no more backfiring through the carbs at low revs and just a 'nice' amount of popping on the overrun.

Had a problem with the dash cutting out which seems to have been caused by a loose fuseholder, hopefully all sorted now.

Not quite 100%, but probably 95% there now and certainly enjoyable to ride rather than just 'challenging' especially at low revs when pulling away from standstill as I don't need to slowly feed in the revs any more to prevent stalling.

Engine's still got less than 200 miles since rebuild so maybe still a little tight but making 90hp and 68lb/ft so not too shabby either and certainly enough to make the front end feel a little light.

your only 5hp down on a 1100 so thats not so bad eh !

[Dukedesmo]

One more trip to the Dyno after having changed the pilot jets and needle clip position. Couple of adjustments and the fuelling is now spot on, was too lean at low to mid throttle but runs nicely now.

Have also had a play with the suspension, lowered the rear a little and raised the front as I had it a bit too nose heavy, still need to sort the damping etc but am pretty happy with it now, just some minor ongoing fettling to do.

Have to say the lads at SPR are highly recommended for dyno and other work, really know their stuff. :thumbsup:

[cactus]

Nice machine, well done. :)

[Bigxr]

I have some great advice... print out this whole thread, include lots of your brilliant photos and make it into a book.
The thread and all the replies/comments have made it truly unique. It's been an obsession reading this, and every couple of months I have to read it all over again its just so inspiring!
I'm a fan!

[Nottsbiker]

If you are passing through Nottingham one night email me and drop in for a coffee (decent of course!).

bikerben1000@googlemail.com

Not on here that often for PM's I'm afraid!

Ben

[Mark Taylor]

Hi Tim, A top class thread altogether, just one question remains tho - how much:on:
you can't put a price on the journey, or the destination for that matter:thumbsup:
Happy monstering mate - Mark.

[theandyb]

This thread is brilliant - thanks for sharing!

[Dukedesmo]

Thanks all :thumbsup: even got a prize at the weekend :yoparty: - might have to tie it to the front like in 'The Wid One', although that maybe a bit too :ymca:

:eek:

Been messing with the forks as they are way too firm and despite making them much better (preload wound fully out) I have come to the conclusion that I need softer springs.

Also I expect there'll be some 'evolution' over the coming weeks/months etc. but overall I'm pretty happy with it.

Although I do have a bit of a problem;









And, yes I know this is a Monster forum but when I go to the garage, which to chose?

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/916_m900.jpg

:thumbsup:

[Dukedesmo]

So, to update;

Bike now done a couple of thousand miles, loosened up nicely and running well (some of you have seen it) using a little more oil than I would have liked, not 100% sure why (probably rings?) but am hoping it might settle down a bit now that I've reworked the breather and added another cooler? Otherwise sorted a few problems and made a few improvements.

Fitted softer fork springs so that I have some suspension as previously was too hard - now much better.

Re-worked the footpeg position and heatshields, bit of a compromise as I would have liked them a little further back but the brake master cylinder is as close to the pipes as possible - may re-visit this in the future with a different rearset setup?

Extended the sidestand as it was leaning over at an alarming angle - not helped by raising the ride height.

Fitted a TPS to the carbs so that I can have a more flexible ignition map - runs much smoother and throttle response is instant! still a bit lumpy under 3k but that's to be expected given the engine build & lack of flywheel weight - will still blowback through the carbs if running too low RPM in a higher gear but not really a problem and otherwise behaves itself.

Fitted an electric fuel shut-off valve to prevent the possibility of fuel leaking through the carbs when stopped (a few have had this with FCRs).

Had a few 'Loctite & torqueing' sessions to replace/refit bolts that have shaken loose or fallen out!. Fitted extra support brackets between bars & screen to stop the screen from vibrating at certain RPMs!

Today's quest was to fit a second oil cooler as it does run hot; around 90 - 95 degrees at cruising speed on the open road and very quickly gets very hot if in traffic.

I had a problem with the hose setup; I have feed/return hoses for the high cooler and return from the low cooler but was missing a link between the two.

Over the course of the build I have acquired various cooler fittings & hoses including an oil cooler feed hose for a Multistrada which is very long and for now this fits although I have had to make a 'loop' around the intake manifold to lose the excess length!

Anyway works fine (excess is hidden) and initial test run shows around around 5 - 6 degree drop in cruising temp, still heats up in traffic but will cool quicker once moving so looking good.

Here's a few pics taken today;

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_2195c.jpg

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_2197a.jpg

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/9/3/7/0/img_2198a.jpg

Does anyone have any info on the oil cooler hose 'O' rings? as I could do with a few spares? Appear to be approx. 8mm (ID) 10mm (ID) & 1mm thick and green in colour (Viton?).

Any suggestions also on custom made cooler hoses, or specifically one to link upper & lower coolers on the left side?

[DrD]

You could try these guys: http://www.nbmwoolford.co.uk/public_html/Main.htm
Some of the 900SS peeps have gone this route and recommend them.

[Darren69]

great thread and a very sexy looking bike you have there. Sam and Pete at SPR and Neil at Cornerspeed are essential to any rebuild, many years experience between them all, both highly recommended.

[Rexr]

Cracking build thread and the bike is stunning..!!!

[Yorkie]

I did my own hoses for my 999/749 oil cooler upgrade:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370906002195?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Really good value, well I think so.

Yorkie

[Dukedesmo]

So, for anyone still interested:

In my experience a bike build is rarely ever 'finished' and some evolution is always on-going, plus there are a few details that need improving and as such I'm currently undertaking a winter revision.

Although it works OK I'm not too happy with the 2 oil cooler setup so I have now got a single, large cooler that fits under the front cylinder. Hoping this will be a better solution - it's almost the same overall surface area as 2 standard coolers (+70% of a single cooler) and is a much neater looking setup with less pipework that fits with the 'less is more' ethos I'm aiming for.

http://ducatiforum.co.uk/members/dukedesmo-albums380-22648.jpg

Also by moving it lower I can open up a better airflow into the engine area, assisting with cooler air flow to the carbs and fit a larger regulator heatsink/mounting plate but, more importantly get a larger airflow to the rear cylinder to help with cooling.

Due to the position of the cooler being right in the firing line of the front wheel I wanted a guard to save it from getting stone-blasted but couldn't find one commercially that would fit so have had to make my own. I used a carbon-fibre/stainless mesh 'sandwich' construction;

http://ducatiforum.co.uk/members/dukedesmo-albums380-23957.jpg

Turned out OK, I think.

You may also notice something going on with the exhaust. Despite the bike making good power I feel the exhaust was restricting it somewhat, so with that in mind my most recent addition is a set of 'Spaghetti' header pipes from MADASL racing, I have to say that Mark at MADASL has done a great job on the pipes and is also a thoroughly nice chap who makes lots of interesting parts for Ducatis - highly recommended, so well worth taking a look at his website http://www.madasl.co.uk/.

The design of theses headers plus the fact that they are 45mm rather than 40mm should address any restriction and I look forward to testing them out, meanwhile I just like looking at them but I'll probably get the polishing fetish going again soon!

Next job is to address the oil consumption issue as it is using too much and the compression (whilst high) is not really high enough given the components fitted so I'm thinking there is a piston ring sealing issue, probably down to having not run-in the bike as I really wanted (hard) due to the lean running & 'scattery' ignition timing that I had when I first got it going. And that by the time this was sorted the 'damage' had already been done.

So over the next few weeks it's cylinders off and check the rings, de-glaze the bores etc. to see if I can get it back to where it should be - then a 'proper' run-in before heading back to the dyno to optimise the new exhaust and other minor changes.

[zhango]

Duke - cooler guard very nice job :thumbsup: