George White

[ozz]

Per MCN gone into administration this morning!

George White Motors, the UK’s leading motorcycle dealer group, has gone into administration this morning, MCN has learnt.

Rumours of the closure began circulating early this morning with suggestions that staff at its dealerships in Swindon, Plymouth and Torbay had been made redundant.

The shock news was then confirmed at around 11am to MCN by owner Steve Gannicott who said the group had ceased trading and had filed a notice of intention to appoint administrators.

George White had established itself to become the UK’s biggest motorcycle dealer with motorcycle stores in Swindon, Plymouth and Torbay selling bikes from Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and the Piaggio group and clothing outlets in Swindon, Plymouth, Bolton, Donington and Slough

MCN will be bringing more on this story as soon as we have it. The full story will be in next week’s Motorcycle News, out Wednesday January 25.

[J.P]

that's how tough it is out there

[J.P]

But you know what, try and get a discount on a new bike and it's like getting blood out of a stone.

[SunEye]

But you know what, try and get a discount on a new bike and it's like getting blood out of a stone.
Profit margins on bikes are small, 5-10%. Compare that to clothes and accessories (not bike related) that usually have a profit margin of 100% minimum (sometimes 200%-300%).

There are circumstances that make haggling a new bike price a possibility. If the dealer has had the bike in the shop for over 90 days they have probably had to pay for it so they will be eager to sell it. Before then if they are confident they'll sell it within the 90 days you won't get a discount unless the shop really needs to shift bikes.

Sometimes you can find new bikes that have been in a shop for over a year. You should get a significant discount on them, especially if there is a new model just about to be released and the shop needs to get rid of all the old ones it has taking up space.

Sometimes the shop's sales target with the manufacturer means that they need to sell a lot of bikes. This is often when you find shops selling bikes at close to cost price. They are relying on shifting a lot of bikes so that they make enough money, but also they want to impress the manufacturer into giving them a discount on next years bikes because they'll sell even more of them ;) I suspect George White have been operating like this, but just haven't been able to sell enough to cover their costs.

When I bought my Kawasaki ZRX1200R from Lloyd Cooper that is what they were doing. My local Kawasaki dealer wouldn't match their price because they said that it was cost price for the bike and they wouldn't make any money on the sale. That year the Kawasaki ZRX was sold out by June in the UK. The shops had misjudged how many they could sell (they placed their orders in November for the next year). What they had could have been sold at full price or they could have sold double the number. Either way Kawasaki and their dealers could have made a bit more money that year if they had been able to judge their market better.

[Dinkybiker]

Shop in Swindon is closed, but web site appears to still be trading.

[singletrack]

Crikey that is scary and such a shame.
I ordered some Rukka trousers from their website last week ( reduced from £700 to £300). It was great service and they arrived the next day. It makes you wonder what would have happened if I had ordered them yesterday.

[He11cat]

Thats really sad I used to hang about there when the shop was on Manchester Road in Swindon and was not huge when I was 18. (and no I was not moonlighting down there at night lol!!)

Now bikes are mainly leisure buys and the economy is so dire people will cut down on lifes luxurys first :(

Its bad that a lot of the little shops have gone under , but they are pretty big now!! Very sad indeed.

[singletrack]

The trouble is you can go under even if you are making money ( like Peacocks) it only takes a low cash flow and an awkward bank manager.

[SunEye]

The trouble is you can go under even if you are making money ( like Peacocks) it only takes a low cash flow and an awkward bank manager.
Absolutely. That happened to Admiral the sportswear brand in 1982. They had to pay their suppliers, but hadn't got the money from the retailers yet. Nobody would lend them the shortfall for a few weeks so they went bankrupt.

[Rally]

Kodak have just joined in the game as well and announced they're in trouble and closing.

[Gilps]

Peacocks and Geroge Whites in the same week. Tough times for chavs.

[neilo]

Kodak have just joined in the game as well and announced they're in trouble and closing.

They've had it coming though...haven't they? Minimal innovation = get left behind.

[Stafford]

They've had it coming though...haven't they? Minimal innovation = get left behind.

Can't say they didn't try

Former Kodak vice president Don Strickland claims he left the company in 1993 after he failed to get backing from within the company to release a digital camera.
Kodak films The switch to digital undermined Kodak's reliance on conventional film sales

He said: "We developed the world's first consumer digital camera but we could not get approval to launch or sell it because of fear of the effects on the film market... a huge opportunity missed."

[neilo]

True. All the big players faced similar opposition to switching to digital, but sometimes you've just gotta let go of the 'old' if you are to compete with the 'new'. Especially where technology is concerned.

[bex]

I've never thought of George White as chav.... :scratch:

[Saint aka ML]

It is apparently hard for bike dealers but there is more scooters and bikes on London roads then ever. I guess same goes in this part of uk.

A 110cc Honda scooter new is about 1800 on the road. With new scooter you need 2 years on the road to save money. 1st year for scooter, 2nd will pay for rest and some.

I think leisure bike sale was hit but adventure/touring/scooter market picked up.

In regards of low margin on bikes well 1100evo in us is 11995 so 7750GBP while new one in uk 9250. It costs more to ship bikes to us then uk.

Do not know why car manufacturers can give discounts on cars but same manufacturer will not on bikes

[Rally]

I've never thought of George White as chav.... :scratch:

George himself has been out of the business now for about 18 years, when Steve bought it from him. George is a true old style gent who started by selling Reliant cars at the Manchester Road site. No way was he a chav.

Steve Gannicot is a nice guy as well and a friend of mine. He would not of done this if it wasn't necessary. He will be back i'm sure, it's just doing what?

I did my best to support them over the years by buying 11 brand new bikes and another 5 secondhand ones as well. The 1st one of those being in 1994 when my other close mate and bike shop owner Andy Taylor was sadly killed in a bike accident.

[bex]

I didn't mean the person I actually just meant the shops!

[Capo]

In regards of low margin on bikes well 1100evo in us is 11995 so 7750GBP while new one in uk 9250. It costs more to ship bikes to us then uk.

Due in the main part to the TAX in the UK.

[SunEye]

In regards of low margin on bikes well 1100evo in us is 11995 so 7750GBP while new one in uk 9250.
That is true, but there are other factors to consider such as import duty and sales tax as well as the Euro-Dollar exchange rate. 4 to 5 times more Ducatis are sold in the USA than the UK so there may also be some price reduction due to the volume of sales.

An 1100 Evo in Italy is €11, 785 (£9,856).

[Saint aka ML]

Due in the main part to the TAX in the UK.

Yep us is 10 to 15% state dependant while uk 20%. So a 77GBP at best.
There is no import duty within eu capo while there is one on usa end.

Sorry but fact is difference is to big to put it on tax especially that both prices quoted are on the road so include all dealers expenses and profit.

There might be a discount for volume of sales in us but how much would it be per unit a 1000gbp? Unlikely if you ask me a 500 discount as already good as also tax is lower in first place so you can pass 300gbp on customer with a snap.

[SunEye]

I am very certain that UK bike dealers operate on a 10% (or less) gross profit margin (profit before deductions) for new bikes. From what I have read that is what UK Honda dealers have to operate on and from personal experience I know that it is what UK Kawasaki dealers operate on.

If you want to find out how come Ducati's are relatively cheap in the USA I would suggest asking either Ducati USA or a USA Ducati dealer (or both).

In previous dealings I have had with US companies (Presonus and dbx) I got very straight, detailed and informative answers to my questions. My enquiry was asking why can I buy this product from a US retailer and have it shipped to the UK, pay import duty and VAT and it is still less than the UK retail price. It ultimately resulted in the US companies contacting their UK distributors and arranging for me to buy the goods at UK cost price (30% less than RRP).

[Sirc]

I did my best to support them over the years by buying 11 brand new bikes and another 5 secondhand ones as well. The 1st one of those being in 1994 when my other close mate and bike shop owner Andy Taylor was sadly killed in a bike accident.
you certainly did Rally - that's 11 more than i'll ever buy new. Sorry to hear about your friend.

[Gilps]

I've never thought of George White as chav.... :scratch:

Not the shop, just the customers. I went in once but couldn't see one Ducati.:mand:
I stopped for a cup of tea one time and I was glared at by the same people who drooled over a blinged up Busa. I won't miss the place, but I do feel sorry for the staff who've lost their jobs.

[chris yeatman]

shame about G/whites, i still think that the goverment should have put vat back up 17.5% instead of 20%, that would of helped.

[tricolore]

These guys ( Plymouth ) offered me a £1000 off a new EVO in November, try getting that from another dealer !! I loved going into George White and seeing so much choice - bit like the old Motorcycle City and Carnell days. Going into these single franchise dealers is just so boring, Really sorry to hear this news..................who, what's next ?

[walpole68]

Shame to see any local business close down.i was in there on Sunday and a guy was sat placing his deposit on a new bike for 1st March,I hope he and all the others awaiting there new bikes don't lose out.

[desmo]

I am sorry to see them close, I used to ride through the Cotswold water parks to George Whites & stop off for drink & a mooch around the bikes & gear.

I don't think they will be the last to go either!!!

[neilo]

These guys ( Plymouth ) offered me a £1000 off a new EVO in November, try getting that from another dealer !!

Perhaps it is discounting like this that lead them to go bust? I got NO discount on my EVO, but I did get a good overall deal... When I tried to buy a Dorsoduro 1200 from George White, the overall deal on the table wasn't as competitive as buying from my local Aprilia dealer..

[Nickj]

I stopped for a cup of tea one time and I was glared at by the same people who drooled over a blinged up Busa..

If you will go round looking like a clown out of a very scarey story what do you expect!!! ;)

[He11cat]

I used to go there in 1989 never chavvy then.
I used to live in the road behind Manchester road for a while .
Used to be a great bike scene in Swindon back then :)

[AndyC_772]

Really sad to see GW in trouble, the Swindon branch was a great day out.

I didn't buy my bike from them, though. I took one for a test ride, and when I got back to the store (around closing time) I asked the sales guy to call me back the next day with a quote once he'd worked out the value of my p/x.

Tumbleweed.

They were one phone call away from selling me a brand new £10k bike. Maybe it wasn't a one-off oversight?

[He11cat]

Hmm not a good oversight ..
So peacocks gone ..blacks camping looks set to go ..
And La Senza .. Where will the blokes get their frillys from now!!!?

Really bad all leisure things as people cut back there first.
Very sad for all the people laid off :(0

[Gordon H]

I was warned about 6 months ago that if I had been looking for a new bike NOT to place a deposit with GW..... it appears the writing hs been on the wall for a while......

[uksurfer]

I was warned about 6 months ago that if I had been looking for a new bike NOT to place a deposit with GW..... it appears the writing hs been on the wall for a while......

its amazing what the local bike mechanic knows....... :scratch:

[woody71]

I feel that George White just got a bit greedy and tried to be the big retailer that their not. They built up all that new real estate at Swindon but it just didn't work. Bikers are more than happy with a small retailer with just the right amount of gear not a massive super shopping emporium !!
ps. George White look at Hein Gericke shops; thats is how its done. Hindsight is a wonderful thing !

[Rally]

The big retailer they're not?

Are you not aware that they were selling 6000 bikes a year and were the UK's biggest bike dealer? They sponsored BSB and went to all rounds as well as most big bike shows. They also own the worlds largest motorbike hot air balloon. You have to have large premises to look after those sorts of levels of stocks.

They were a major contributory factor in driving bike prices down for us lot. Watch the prices creep back up now.

[uksurfer]

I would suggest the recession hit more than they would like to have thought, and probably better business management might have helped too imho

[Rally]

I would suggest the recession hit more than they would like to have thought, and probably better business management might have helped too imho

I totally agree. Growth in a recession is a brave move, but also a big gamble. On this occasion it didn't work. :thumbsdown:

[uksurfer]

Real shame though, always got something from up there and breakfast was always good too, could never resist a little bargain!

They must have had a huge amount of cash tied up in stock.......

[neilo]

I tried to buy 3 bikes from them at various times...but they were never as competitive as my local dealers. I don't know if they had that much of a hold on UK bike prices...time will tell...

So do you think other dealers will have to start offering 'deals' to shift the manufacturer stock that GW would have? They've got to shift them somewhere, right?

[jerry]

bikes are not really cheaper in USA as when you buy a bike they add state sales taxes and up to $2000 delivery charge which is included in UK price so price difference is minimal .

[Rally]

So do you think other dealers will have to start offering 'deals' to shift the manufacturer stock that GW would have? They've got to shift them somewhere, right?

It depends who owns the stock as to who has the problem. As a Honda and Kawasai dealer, I can tell you that we get stocking options and don't have to pay for them for up to 5 months at times. This is to help with commitment to the suppliers and eliminate seasonal rushes. It may be the case that the manufacturers still own alot of newer stock and simply collect them back. (Contracts ensure this is allowed)

However, from what i've been told, George Whites use to buy and pay cash for alot of stock to get the best discounts available, often on older models or unpopular colour schemes, so maybe the administrator will be selling them off? I don't have the facts of the situation, so can only speculate at this point.

[PDS]

No matter what your thoughts are about george white motorcycles are , one thing remains, more people have lost jobs, i was never a customer of george whites, but i did do some crewing on the BSB George white balloon a few times, all the george white staff i met were a good bunch and always helpful. its a shame another british business has gone under in these though times.

[Scott1]

I bought my Vav Van from the Shoreditch shop, really nice guys, really good service and I'm gutted anybody is losing there Jobs.

[1100steve]

Was shocked to hear this, often had a ride over to Swindon for a mooch about, to be fair they never really had anything to offer me other than an under-priced by £100.00:eek: (before anyone asks - I did query, it and it was shrugged off:)) pair of Dainese delta trousers and a cup-o-tea or 2.

"The company plunged £663,784 into the red in 2010 on sales of £26million" - now i'm certainly no business brain and forgive me if i'm wrong, but that doesn't sound too terrible in the current climate, I guess the 2011 figures read a little more desperate....

Sad times.

[woody71]

The big retailer they're not?

Are you not aware that they were selling 6000 bikes a year and were the UK's biggest bike dealer? They sponsored BSB and went to all rounds as well as most big bike shows. They also own the worlds largest motorbike hot air balloon. You have to have large premises to look after those sorts of levels of stocks.

They were a major contributory factor in driving bike prices down for us lot. Watch the prices creep back up now.

Well it hasn't worked has it ! and thats my point. To sponsor you need a massive financial outlay for potentialy a minimal return. Thats why in football it is all foreign investment. The Hot air balloon ! I saw it at Silverstone once but it didn't for a moment sway me to ride down to Swindon and buy a new bike impressive as it was.
I do feel sorry for the workforce though. They are the ones who have been shafted. I do hope they all find something else soon.