Service Cost - Rosso Corse

[benaround]

Had a chat yesterday with Stuart and Rob at the Hilltop (great meeting you guys), about a recent rather COSTLY experience with RC. We thought it might be a good idea to share this with everyone, so we can compare prices from different suppliers. I would welcome any thoughts/comments you might have.

FYI - This was a 2 years (or 15,000 miles) scheduled maintenance, albeit mine was a particularly low mileage (4,700 miles), because of an accident sometime ago (luckily on a different bike). I wanted to attach a scanned copy of the invoice, but forum filesize constraints will not allow, so here goes:

DIDZDVM 520 Chain - £127.80
14t Front Sprocket - £20.05
14t front sprocket lock plate - £5.70
Pads, Front x2 - £56.00
Belts, Cam x2 - £84.72
DCPR8E Plugs x2 - £12.12
Filter, air - £34.10
Filter, fuel x1 - £19.87
Filter, fuel o'ring assem - £12.48
5.1 brake fluid - £6.85
Consumables - £8.00
Filter, oil - £13.26
Sump gaskets x 2 - £1.80
3.4lts synthetic oil - £32.13
Labour (Full service & remove and replace final drive / fit 14t) - £225.00

Total without VAT - £659.88 (£791.85 with VAT)

I should say from the outset, I was initially told by Ray to expect fees of between £400 and £500, including the chain. It is also worth pointing out that Metropolis (authorised dealer) quoted around £600 inclusive of VAT for the same service, not including the chain change, meaning it would probably end up being more or less the same if not cheaper. Needless to say, this is not what you would expect from a smaller operation.

[rac3r]

I would have thought that would be more of a 4v service price. Pretty expensive I have to say

[simon_g]

Sounds like a fair bit of work there. As a comparison, my last service there was about £400, but didn't have the chain/sprocket, brake pads or belt change (just the parts for those are nearly £300+VAT). Not cheap, but I don't bemoan skilled people who are good at what they do making a living. They may be a "small operation" but still have the costs of premises and other operating costs (insurance, etc) in London, and no sales/accessories side to prop it up.

Parts prices seem a little expensive compared to a quick search online but I doubt they spend their time sourcing bits from random shops on the web and getting them posted - it'll be whoever can deliver promptly so they can get the job done. From what I've heard they're happy for you to supply you own bits if you want.

[steeevvvooo]

that's 4/5 hours labour looking from the labout cost (bear in mind Rosso charge less than £50 an hour which is reasonable, if not cheap, for a specialist... ask metropolis their rate). In my experience, you actually get charged for time spent on the bike at Rosso, not quoted from a manual, so things are done at the pace needed, not rattled through and ticked off a list. The result is a well cared for bike.

I don't know the new bike well, but would valve clearances be due at 2 years? Belts and valves usually account for a couple of hours labour on my bike.

As for the rest, parts are parts. Rosso have never objected to be supplying my own parts where I think I can get them cheaper.

VAT is the killer on that bill for me :(

I have no affiliation to Ray/Marcus except I have always taken my Ducs there, and have been more than happy. Italian bikes need TLC, and they have always given mine loads :thumbsup:

[J.P]

Metropolis are £90 an hour for labour on Ducati & Aprilla

[He11cat]

Sorry to hear that but.
Firstly always get a price inc VAT as it makes a huge difference.
Also if you only have so much money in the pot tell the person doing your work I can't go above X and be firm as I just have not got it then they know the score before anything is done.

Then they can say to you well you need x doing as well ..... and you can decide if you can stretch to it or wait til next month.

I have been in that boat I have x much and couldn't stretch to even £50 more .. always do that before you get work done .. if money is no object then it doesn't matter.

I just had alot of work done on one of my bikes up by me and I said to the mechanic I have a budget of... and we worked on that , its really vital to sort out stuff like that then no shocks.

I think you will find about right for London on this and maybe if you went to a dealer in London more money and not so good a job. In fairness your pay a bit more for the joy of living in London .. Im born and bred South London.

Knowing whats said on here and people that have used them they are probably the best in London.
The other dealer you have quoted hmmm not heard good at all.
RC take care of a few friends bikes and really look after them and wouldn't rip anyone off..

Given a choice between the named dealer you said and RC if I was back home I know who would get my pennies between those two and who I would trust my bike with.

The same with me up here.. I have a couple places I could go but I only trust my mechanic with my bike as his reputation is impecable.
If someone said to me look il do it cheaper... no thanks .. il stick with the guy with the reputation anyday! They have a good rep.

Someone will be along to tick me off :) and I hope I don't come across rude I don't mean to.
But RC are good and I think you picked the best people in London.
Talk to them ... its best to speak to them if you feel that your not happy.
Im sure they don't want people going away feeling unhappy and it gives them a chance to say well actually ....

The joys of owning Ducati .. Don't I know it.. Im now a pauper .. but wouldn't have it any other way!
Always keep a good communication open with people working on a bike.

Lots of people money is no object .. not the case for me.
The cost of a service is the cost of a service... but sometimes add on bits if your poor like me have to be done at a later date unless dangerous.
£400- £500.... £100 for DID chain is right .. so that along bumps your bill up.

[gary tompkins]

As stated on your earlier thread shopping around or going DIY (assuming bike is out of warrenty) could have saved a bundle of cash. I'm amazed the chain and sprockets needed replacing at just 4700 miles unless neglected. Same goes for spark plugs (cleaning and re-gapping should be adequate), air filter and the front pads. My previous set of pads lasted over 15,000 miles on the trike.

Subtracting that lot would have shaved £306.92 off the bill including VAT

[benaround]

I too am familiar with Metropolis' not great reputation (and indeed that of others here in the London area) when it comes to providing our babies with the much needed TLC (as per Steeevvvooo's words). The reason I went to RC is this very forum and all the nice words people have to say about the transformational work Ray and Marcus put into the bikes.

The only reason I mentioned Metropolis, was as a benchmark and because regardless of the quality of work they provide, they are an authorised dealer, meaning you can sleep peacefully at night, knowing that if something happens, you can take the bike back and they are obliged to look after it again and again, until they get it right. Granted, this is not the relationship one wishes to have with their mechanic, but the cost you pay for parts and labour at these places is commensurate with mother Ducati's official stamp and approval of the dealer. The question is I guess could one expect RC to assume the same responsibility?

For me, the communication part is what is most important, i.e. in this instance, I was led to believe cost would be substantially lower. When I went to pick up the bike, I was told a different figure, which unfortunately was some way from the original. At that stage, you can only do so much. It's not like you can ask RC to undo all the work and/or bring the bike back to its original state. Regardless of how much money I could afford to pay, I had to cough up. Perhaps this was a one-off.

[popelli]

They have padded the bill

Chains can be sourced far cheaper than that and don't need replacing at that sort of mileage

[SunEye]

Here are some prices (ex VAT) I was charged at Pro Twins for comparison:

Labour £45 per hour
Oil £32.62
Oil filter £8.98
Belts £85.20
Brake fluid £7.52

They are within a few percent of what Rosso Corse charged you.

The labour charge is always the big one, but it is about half the hourly rate of many franchised dealer car garages (UK average is £90 per hour).

Would agree with Gary that I'm surprised that the chain, sprockets, pads and spark plugs needed to be replaced after only 4,700 miles. After double that mileage Pro Twins didn't feel the need to replace mine when they serviced it.

[Twentytoo]

Keep looking at this and think I must be missing something. But no, as far as I can tell its a 2 year old M696 with 4700 miles on it. £800!!! I accept that are specialist tasks on the belts and engine but when mine goes in it will be with instructions that anything like chain/sprockets pads etc will be done by me.....thanks for the warning...

[neilo]

Well, there's about £300 worth of servicing that can't be considered part of the 2yr/15k mile service, so your real cost would've been ~£500, which is okay for London I guess.

My local dealer (Woods) says the 2yr/15k mile service should definitely cost ≤£500, and probably ~£400. I'd be happy with that.

Things like chains, sprockets, brake pads...I'll change these myself as/when they need changing... parts are parts, labour's free.

From a personal point of view, if any of my services were to exceed the £400-500 mark, I'd just do all the servicing myself, because I don't see my bike devaluing by more than that (come part-ex time) just for not having a FDSH, and I'd know the job was done 'right' anyway. Besides, £400-500/yr would be enough to deal with warranty issues myself.

[J.P]

I'm still on my original chain after 20,000 'thrashed' miles.

[popelli]

I accept that are specialist tasks on the belts

changing belts is not a specialist task, its as easy as changing the oil filter, in fact possibly easier given the amount of grief people have changing oil filters

[Saint aka ML]

Metropolis lies as hell so do not take their quote for granted.

In regards of your service, anything relating to chain/sprocket/pads is not part of service it is consumables like tyres and as many said I am surprised that chain needed changing so quickly.

In regards of plugs I never go over 7k barier on them, do not bother cleaning and re-gapping.

[Paivi]

For me, the communication part is what is most important, i.e. in this instance, I was led to believe cost would be substantially lower. When I went to pick up the bike, I was told a different figure, which unfortunately was some way from the original. At that stage, you can only do so much. It's not like you can ask RC to undo all the work and/or bring the bike back to its original state. Regardless of how much money I could afford to pay, I had to cough up. Perhaps this was a one-off.
Sadly, it's not. Others have had nasty surprises, too, when picking up the bike.

I stick to Al at Ducati Proteam, he keeps me updated on anything he finds and is always very close to the estimate.

My last work was done at Baines Racing, though, as they brought her home from Normandy, and Geoff went as far as sourcing a new loom on the Ebay instead of buying a new one from Ducati, as there were hundreds of pounds to save, and we were working from the assumption that we'd have to replace the ECU, so that was going to cost me quite enough.

[rac3r]

I stick to Al at Ducati Proteam, he keeps me updated on anything he finds and is always very close to the estimate.



Al @ Proteam is awesome!

[animaluk]

does your bike ran better than it ever has, I bet it does ?

800 quid service I dream of that ;)

[Unit 18]

I stick to Al at Ducati Proteam, he keeps me updated on anything he finds .

Could even be a pair of scissors stuck in the loom! :spin:

[d8mok]

My 2 year service from ducati cornerspeed was £317 inc vat. Bike had done about 2500 miles so no pads, chain or anything else outside the normal full belt service.

So all these numbers seem quite excessive to me.

[Twentytoo]

After reading this I'm looking at a winter of doing as much of the work as possible myself before it goes for the bits I can't do. I'm looking at the official Ducati service schedule and I can't find any mention of checking or changing the fuel filter. Can anyone shed any light on this?

[benaround]

[QUOTE=animaluk;407857]does your bike ran better than it ever has, I bet it does ?

In fairness, the bike rides fine, no complaints there - had it been otherwise, that would have probably been too much and/or driven me mad

The bike has seen better days though, namely, when an Italian seasoned mechanic treated it in Italy, when riding across Europe - I'm not sure what the guy did, as I was enjoying my cappuccino nearby, but the rest of the journey to Greece felt like a stroll

[Funkatronic]

I too have had higher than expected bills from RC on occasion, but i dont think accusing them of padding the bill is at all fair

i have never known RC to do any work or fit parts unnecessarily but in fairness they should have been more proactive about contacting you before undertaking any extra work

having not seen the bike i couldn't be sure but its certainly possible for a chain and sprox to get shagged very fast if not cleaned, adjusted or lubricated properly (duati OEM chains arent the best anyway)
if the pads were rubbing, this could also acount for the abnormal wear, you did say the bike was 'strolling' from italy to greece. rubbing brakes could have been the reason for this

2.5 hrs labour to do all that work sounds fair imho

air filter again isnt normally that shortlived but i just spent 10 days in spain which added lots of dust to mine upon inspection (fortunately its the washable type). maybe your summer jaunt across the continent did not help

DIDZDVM 520 Chain - £127.80
14t Front Sprocket - £20.05
14t front sprocket lock plate - £5.70
Pads, Front x2 - £56.00
Belts, Cam x2 - £84.72
DCPR8E Plugs x2 - £12.12
Filter, air - £34.10
Filter, fuel x1 - £19.87
Filter, fuel o'ring assem - £12.48
5.1 brake fluid - £6.85
Consumables - £8.00
Filter, oil - £13.26
Sump gaskets x 2 - £1.80
3.4lts synthetic oil - £32.13
Labour (Full service & remove and replace final drive / fit 14t) - £225.00

the only thing on here that looks a little expensive is the chain, which could probabaly have been found online for less, but once you add postage theres prob only £10 in it. the DID ZVM chain is excellent. its a top quality heavy duty chain much better than the ducati OEM which im pretty sure if you enquired would not be much cheaper

im not affiliated with RC in anyway other than being a satisfied customer

totally understand how you feel, no one likes to feel like they have been fleeced but on balance RC are the people i trust with my bikes

[Jaron]

I know that RC look on here so hope they take it for what it is - a discussion. I'd not heard of Proteam until reading this, checked out their website and they have prices for servicing on that. Transparency is the key I think, no one likes to return tentatively to a big bill even if your bike did need it.
What Twenttoo said though, last weekend I replaced plugs, oil and oil filter, and bled and replaced the fluids for the clutch and brakes. Also did the pads - all pretty easy and saved a packet.
I think it just needs to have belts and valve clearances done now (by a specialist).

[utopia]

Good reputations are hard to come by. It takes many satisfied customers to build one up. I have no personal experience of RC, but I have heard their recommendation many times on this forum. Thats got to count for a lot, in my book.
Chain replacement is very early, but maybe it had a tight spot, perhaps due to standing for a while...?? If this was the case, then while you're having a new front sprocket (different size ?), it would be sensible to change the full set, ie the rear as well.
Disc pads seems early too, under normal conditions, but again, maybe the conditions weren't normal. Given their reputation, I would assume there was good reason.
For me though, monsters (particularly the 2-valvers) are so easy to work on that I would recommend doing as much home servicing as possible. Certainly all the usual consumables and fluids, and the belts (which aren't at all difficult once you get over the hype and get stuck in). Even valve clearances aren't hard if you take your time and have a little mechanical sympathy.
Normal servicing costs are seriously not for me. Not when in just a few years they could account for most of the value of the bike in the first place.
But for others, a good mechanic is worth their weight in gold, and I just thought I would put in a plug for RC and others of their ilk who have earned a reputation for good solid work at a reasonable price.
I understand that your comments were by way of discussion rather than critisism, and quite right too, but it would be a shame if the wrong conclusions were implied by accident, without full knowledge of all the facts.

[animaluk]

Ray and Marcus have always phoned me to tell me if they find anything unusual and always keep the old parts to show me, as they do for all customers and i assume yourself ?

Though low mileage its not done a lot of miles in 2 years (i suspect most of them on your trip to spain) so its has been sitting for a good amount of time thats more than enough for your chain to get a tight spot if not looked after.

There is a fair bit of work done so the bill does not look to outragous to me (I have two 4 valvers now they are expensive to look after)

Again as the others have said aways talk to the mechanic about your budgets first and tell them what you absolute top amount you expect to pay that way there will be no surprises. (would also like to know if metroplis added labour to there bill as 5 hours there would have cost you £450)

I never known them to pad out a bill and as a lot of people on here will confirm that they will give advice and show you how to do things freely even help out quickly in a real emegency, I mean how many places can you get involved in the service of your bike ? or just ruck up and hang out for a while (Man Creche :mand:) When i crashed my S4 they rebuilt it, and had a custom seat made for me for free just because they though it would make the bike look better (it did :))

learn to do things yourself like brake pads and oil and filters if you want to keep own your bill down, and if your unhappy I would talk to Ray and go over the bill with him as in my opinion Rosso is the only place to take your Duke in London !!!!!

[benaround]

Funkatronic; I too have had higher than expected bills from RC on occasion, but i dont think accusing them of padding the bill is at all fair

Apologies everyone for the radio silence, but I've had the most hectic two days at work. Back to the point: to be absolutely clear, I never claimed RC padded the bill - had I felt this way, I would have taken it up with them directly. Following conversations with some of the older members of this forum over the weekend, the intention for this thread was to have a meaningful conversation and debate regarding prices from different workshops. I do believe in that respect, we have succeeded.

To those fellow members who have suggested working on the bike myself, I would say there is nothing that would give me more satisfaction. God knows if I were one of the characters in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I would not be driving a BMW :D The problem with that is, I work very long hours almost every day and sometimes including weekends, so the time is simply not there. In those instances, it is a huge relief to know someone who can look after your bike as if it were theirs and if that can go hand-in-hand with a reasonable fee structure, then you can really feel blessed.