Riding in the wet....grip....?

[Phatty]

Been riding 5 years, 3 years of which on the S4.

Now, I'd say in the past year my riding has improved a lot, largely due to riding with a pillion and learning how smooth you need to be.

I'm a lot more agressive when solo, rag the bike as much as I feel I can, and it rarely scares me or offers more performance than I think I can handle.

However, as soon as it wet, I'm petrified. I have absolutely no idea how much grip is available, just cannot feel it at all. I've had the rear wheel spin up in 3rd without even trying, but I'm just absolutely petrified of losing the front end I just daren't lean over.

Had a bit of a moment this week. Taking a long sweeping left handed slip road onto a dual carriageway. I have no issues at all about being leant over and flat out through 3rd and into 4th right through it. On this day however it'd been damp in the afternoon, and mid way around the bend I noticed it was still damp in the shade. I panicked, stood the bike up because I dint know if it'd grip on the wet road, and nearly hit the kerb before I saw dry road and dared lean over again. Very close to crashing.

But, would I have slid on the damp or not? I almost caused a crash by my panic avoidance of the damp. Is it really that slippy?

I've never fallen off in the wet or lost the front end, I simply have no idea where the limit of grip is and what it feels like to breach it.

Help!

[rac3r]

Neutral throttle through the bends is what you need and 50/50 braking front and rear. Grip isn't as bad as people perceive but obviously take it easier and give yourself more time and space

Best thing I found is keep riding in the wet and you soon gain confidence. I still **** myself on roundabouts though :chuckle:

(more experienced people will be along soon to give some better advice :D)

[dunlop0_1]

Racing in DD on road tyres certainly gives you an insight into grip in the wet/damp. Unlike in the dry where a front end slide is more often than not saved, in the wet it is like a light switch, grip - no grip - crash, in the blink of an eye. :dizzy:

On top of that on the road you have pot holes and diesel to contend with.

Consider the contact area of my front wheel in the picture, it's the same as you will have.
Scary!
Easiest answer is slow down in the wet. :mand:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/dunlop0_1/ALF_8007.jpg

[Rally]

If you do alot of wet riding, get yourself onto the new Michelin 3 tyres when you can. They have amazing grip and do give you feeling in the wet.

[bex]

I have Pirelli Diablos and feel like I'm Ice Bike Skating when its wet. Can't wait to get some Michelins on there when these are done!

[gary tompkins]

You don't say which tyres you are running or how old they are

Tyres go off over time and it's most noticable in the wet. I had a set of 4 year old Dunlop's on my M600 when I bought it. They had only done 1800 miles (OE factory fitment) and had loads of wear left, but were absolutely lethal in the wet. I swapped to a new set of Pirelli Diablos and they gripped better in the wet when greasy and un scrubbed than the D205's

[He11cat]

Its a confidence thing I totally understand as have this problem.

Its infuriating.
I think you could put anything on the bike and if your confidence is shot or a mental block it would make no difference. Mine is roundabout especially in the wet!!! ..and riding to ridgidly and upright.
Never used to but now Im hopeless.
Practice practice ... I have been riding in really rubbish conditions of late and have to say my monster with Michelin on the back is better then with diablo more planted.

Go at your own pace it would be mental to push your self flat out in the wet to prove yourself you can then have a sudden wobble.

[utopia]

Its probably important NOT to have too much confidence in the wet.
Like Dunlop says, having to contend with diesel, potholes, manhole covers, paint, different tarmac on repaired sections, and tar-banding makes riding in the wet a very unpredictable affair. Too much confidence could easily be your undoing.
The only solution is to keep your speed down and be very, very smooth with any inputs to the bike, ie acceleration, braking, turning, weight transfer etc. and in particular to go easy on the front brakes and to be even smoother when the bike is leaned over
Its not so bad on sections of open road. A clean wet road still offers a fair amount of grip but in town or at junctions and roundabouts, there is massive potential for diesel etc to change grip levels dramatically, and not just from spills...exhaust condensate and general drips soon accumulate into a gunky layer in most towns.
As disconcerting as that is, it's nevertheless important to remain loose and relaxed, and not to stiffen up with fear, which will just make matters even worse. Therefore its even more important to keep your speed down so as to minimise those butt-clenching moments of panic.
In short, be confident, but not too confident.
Even after 30yrs of experience, my own wet weather confidence varies massively according to how recently I've had a 'moment'. Once you've felt the panic it takes ages to fully rebuild your confidence.
The problem with road riding in the wet is that it is so dangerous to explore the limits of adhesion due to the traffic and numerous hard obstacles to hit, that its hard to gain experience of how to control the slides. The best thing I ever did to improve my wet riding was to spend some time riding off road in the winter. That gives you the familiarity that you need with slippery conditions and the instinct of how to deal with them.
Modern tyre design probably doesn't help much, with its focus on extreme performance in the dry for the modern day rider who puts their bike away for the winter. The new michelin pilot road 3 at last seems to be addressing this issue and should be well worth fitting, but no amount of tyre design will overcome a diesel spill.
Hope some of that helps.
I repeat...the best thing I ever did to improve my confidence in the wet was to do some off-road riding in the winter. Highly recommended. .....and don't panic.

[Small Clanger]

If you don't have the confidence in your rubber you can't relax and enjoy the ride. And I suppose that applies as much to biking as it does to playing "hide the sausage" with the vicar's daughter.

As mentioned above, www.michelin.co.uk/motorcycles/michelin-pilot-road-3 seem to be pretty good. Bike Magazine reckon they have "knee down levels of grip" in the wet.

I'll certainly be having some fitted if the Rosso2's on the new Evo don't inspire.

[utopia]

................:chuckle:

[Phatty]

I was running Michelin pilot road 2's, which were new on last year, but in running a different set of wheels at the mo and they've got Avon's on. They are diabolical, I've felt the rear slip in the dry a few times without trying hard.

I'd say my wet pace is literally 30% of my dry pace. I just find it totally **** scary to ride when there's even a touch of damp on the road.

I'm very steady under braking and throttle in the wet, it's the whole lean angle thing that gets me.

[stopintime]

My first track day was wet. After, I found that I had the same lean angles on a wet track as I did on dry streets just before. Mind you - that was newb street riding with 20 mm chicken strips. The point is that you have more than you think, but of course that's still not enough if you forget the difference between wet and dry. I believe the difference is greater for trackday/sport tires than for touring tires.

I'm still Bambi on ice, but this summer I found a very confidence inspiring technique for the scary curves - pull the clutch and roll through - much better contact and feel.

[Funkatronic]

did 10 laps of potimao in the wet earlier in the year on 2CTs and dont think i have ever **** myself on a bike quite as much, back end sliding out, front skipping under braking, was horrible

it took a whole morining of dry sessions before i got any kind of confidence back but i did feel like i learned something abouyt being smooth in those 10 petrifying laps

i rode with brand new tyres today on a slightly damp road and the bike was squirming all over the shop
bottom line in the wet on the road i pootle about like a snail.
both times i have come off the bike (when it was my fault) have been losing the front in the wet

[Phatty]

So, basically, I can get around bends safely at the sort of speeds I'd go at when sedately riding, just don't hammer the throttle of course and don't go late braking and loading up the front tyre (I tend to be pretty heavy on the front tyre, I turn in on the brakes if I'm giving it beans, is that bad? (in the dry).

As you've probably guessed, I don't have a clue, and all my "biker" mates who I used I go to the TT with are useless too. I'd been riding 3 days and was passing them....

Got a mate trying to talk me into track days.....hmmm

[Funkatronic]

track riding is a great fun an a brilliant way to improve your riding

my riding has come on along way in 3 years and 15+ track days

also means i tend to ride less like an idoit on the roads as i can get my speed fix on the track in a more controlled environment

[gary tompkins]

I was running Michelin pilot road 2's, which were new on last year, but in running a different set of wheels at the mo and they've got Avon's on. They are diabolical, I've felt the rear slip in the dry a few times without trying hard.

I'd say my wet pace is literally 30% of my dry pace. I just find it totally **** scary to ride when there's even a touch of damp on the road.

I'm very steady under braking and throttle in the wet, it's the whole lean angle thing that gets me.

If you don't have any confidence in the Avon's then change them for something else

Make sure the suspension is set up properly to suit you as well

[rollo22]

A bike safe or similar course might help to improvbe your wet riding.
I did one 2 years ago sat wet sun dry and it realy does help.