Ducati MotoGP: Turning Japanese? I really think so...

[Mr Cake]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2011/August/aug1811-valentino-rossi-ducati-hint-aluminium-chassis-switch/_/R-EPI-132288

Rossi - The force is strong with this one.

C

[Stuart42]

http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/08/08/the_trouble_with_the_ducati_desmosedici_.html

Heres an article I read via another forum on what is wrong with the Ducati.

And no Kato its not Mr Rossi

Cheers
Stuart

[J.P]

Sometimes being a pioneer means you run into all the sh*t first...

[Mr Cake]

Sometimes being a pioneer means you run into all the sh*t first...

Nobody else was ever going to use a cardboard airbox. I completely respect Ducati for trying, with much success, to be different. There's a point when they've got to accept that it's not working and to wave the white flag (shouldn't be a problem for them :rolleyes: ;) ). If aluminum spars weren't widely used they'd be using them. In my opinion, they should go back to that lovely trellis chassis!

C

[rac3r]

Nah they'll stick some of that carbon vinyl over the top so no one knows

[slob]

Nobody else was ever going to use a cardboard airbox....

They probably remembered the way John Britten's 'cardboard airbox' was wheelying away from them out of the chicane at Daytona BOTT back in the early '90s and figured it was worth a go.

[Pomp1]

We also seem to forget that the Honda is waaaay above the others this year.

[Mr Cake]

Ah, hadn't thought of that. Sorry, I should've said nobody except mentalist kiwi geniuses. It can't be that good if they're chucking the towel in. What worked for John Britten in his garage hasn't seemed to gel for Ducati. You can't get away from the fact that that chassis has been the super-lightweight woven elephant in the drawing room since this season began.

It's probably the Rossi effect. And why should they listen to him? They've won races with that chassis. Since when did one of the world's most preeminent and confident motorcycle 'sculptors' stop designing with a love-it-or-leave-it approach and a "we'll make it work" engineering attitude (which I adore!) start listening to people?

C

PS. If you're struggling to think, it was since the 1098.

[gary tompkins]

Various teams have experimented with carbon frames. They always struggle to get them to work. The CF is usually too stiff compared to Alloy/steel construction, and the lack of controlled flex makes it impossible to get suspension to work. When a bike is lent over at 35 degrees sprung forks/swingarm don't work very well, and the tyres need frame flex to absorb bumps from the track. It's also quite hard to manufacture frames identically using composites, which makes two bikes feel different even if suspension set-ups is the same.

[SunEye]

It's a shame. Ducati's ideas for the design are good, they just don't work for an 800cc MotoGP bike. They'll probably work fine on a Superbike and on a road bike, although not really necessary on a road bike where a tubular steel cradle frame would be good enough for most bikes and riders.

It's interesting that Rossi felt happier on the GP12 bike, hence the GP11.1 revision of the GP11, which unfortunately doesn't really work very well. I think that their thinking is that the 2012 bike has the same inherent issues as the GP11.1 so they need to sort them out if they are to have any hope of the GP12 winning races.

Ducati haven't tested their GP12 against the others, but I'm sure the times of the Honda and Yamaha at the Brno test gave them enough info to help them gauge where their 2012 bike will be. If they don't think that they're up with the Honda and Yamaha they will be starting to panic. Their theory that whatever they do to the GP11.1 should translate to the GP12 is reasonably sound, however not much that they've tried so far makes enough of a difference. There comes a point where they will have to get radical (in a different direction from what they've tried and maybe radical for Ducati, but not for a Japanese bike ;) ). Time is slowly running out for a major redesign of the GP12. If they don't start now the bike won't be ready in time.

Personally I have my doubts about whether Rossi will ever be a race winner in MotoGP on a Ducati (except in the wet). However when he moves to WSBK in 2013 on a Ducati I expect to see a few world titles before he retires. If he retires at 40 he could have won at least 5 WSBK titles by then :)

[gary tompkins]

I didn't realise Rossi had plans to move to WSB - Will be interesting to watch if he does

Wonder if Max Biaggi would still be riding for WSB in 2013? If so it would stir up the old Rossi/Biaggi conflict we saw in Moto GP

http://www.smanettoni.net/public/200411-biaggi-rossi.jpg

[SunEye]

I didn't realise Rossi had plans to move to WSB - Will be interesting to watch if he does
Rossi has said "In a few years, when I'm older, I could even race in Superbikes with Ducati".

He has also made other quotes which hint at a possible WSBK move in the future. He has ridden Yamaha and Ducati WSBK bikes and by all accounts he wasn't slow on them. For the Yamaha he provided feedback to the team when he rode the bike at Brno after the WSBK race that allegedly resulted in adjustments that helped Cal Crutchlow to his two wins at the next round at Silverstone.

In my opinion Rossi would like to leave MotoGP on a high. He'd like to win another championship. He has a two year contract with Ducati in MotoGP. At the moment I can't see him winning a MotoGP championship with Ducati and he probably can't either. His choice at the end of 2012 is to leave MotoGP or change teams. With riders like Lorenzo, Stoner and Simoncelli around why would Honda or Yamaha feel that they need Rossi in order to win? Going to WSBK with Ducati for 2013 keeps the Italian dream team together and at only 33 he could easily race in WSBK until he's 40 and win quite a few championships becoming the only rider to ever win WSBK and MotoGP and potentially beat Foggy's 4 championships.

Although he likes rallying I don't think he's good enough at it to compete with the top 5 in the world. If he wants to compete in motorsport at a world championship level and win WSBK is probably the best place for him to go.

[slob]

Alloy airbox anyone? (surely they've tried that already!)

The Rossi/Burgess combination took an M1 Max said wasn't capable of running near the front and won on it right off the bat. After over a decade of watching The Doctor at work, the one thing that must be true is never count him out...

I remain optimistic

[SunEye]

never count him out
Absolutely agree, but unless Ducati make some major changes to the GP12 he'll struggle to win.

I want to see him in WSBK because I want to see him having fun and winning. I feel sorry for him and Jeremy Burgess (and all the other Ducati riders) struggling with the Ducati MotoGP bike.

[J.P]

Don't feel too sorry for him, the 10 million Euro's a year goes a long way.

[Stuart42]

Don't feel too sorry for him, the 10 million Euro's a year goes a long way.

There speaks the voice of experience

Cheers
Stuart

[rac3r]

At the moment there are loads of rumors of GP riders going to WSB including De Puniet, Capirossi and Edwards. Rossi will probably go there after a few more years in GP depending on how it goes. Thing is though there aren't many factory teams left in WSB! (I count 3?)

[SunEye]

Don't feel too sorry for him, the 10 million Euro's a year goes a long way.
But the poor guy has to work so hard for it. He works for three days a week 18 weeks of the year. Then there are an extra 30 days of testing. On top of that he has to make various public appearances for his sponsors and team. He probably works for almost a third of the year ;)

If you consider his expenses I'm not sure 10 million Euros covers it. He has two dogs, a wife ..... no, a girlfriend ........ no, children ....... no, Uccio to drive his motorhome and hold his earplugs. He's got a house in Ibiza and a house in Tavullia. I would have thought the upkeep of all of that would get rid of most of his 10 million Euros ;)

As to what he does with the other 20 million or more Euros he earns each year from his sponsors, who knows, but maybe he's planning to buy Italy when he retires :)

[gary tompkins]

I think J.P's butler earns more than 10 million a year

[slob]

...but he's worth every penny ;-)