M600 Oil Change

[Lowsider]

Ok peeps

Which oil should I be putting in my baby when I do her oil change....

Cheers

Nick

[Rally]

Castrol Power 1 for me. 10w40 semi synthetic. :D

[utopia]

Which oil should I be putting in my baby .
Nick

......Johnson's....???

I use shell advance, but only cos thats what it had been on when I bought it at 2000miles.....it bore a sticker to that effect, too.
Can't say I've had any issues with it, apart from the usual emulsion in the sight glass.
I think I read somewhere that the wet clutch doesn't like fully synthetics.

[gary tompkins]

Any good quality mineral or semi synthetic oil should be ok at 10/40 grade

Some full synth oils with low friction additives can make wet clutch slip like a bitch

[rollo22]

Looking at the Ducati book of words the S4RS is supposed to run on fully synthetic 10w40.

[Rally]

Looking at the Ducati book of words the S4RS is supposed to run on fully synthetic 10w40.

Dunc,
I would agree with that as it has a dry clutch. The question here was for an M600 though. :look:

[Lowsider]

So 10/40 semi synthetic am I right??

[Rally]

Yes, don't put fully synthetic in it.
Any quality oil with a 10w40 rating will be okay, check the letters are at least SF, SG or higher on the container.

[analogue_rogue]

go to halfords.. they have a mobil 1 10w 40 on offer for 20 quid. i put it in my m600 and its absolutely perfect...

[snakey]

Rock oil Guardian 10/40 semi synth , i have tried others but was not happy with them, something did not feel right, also very true about fully synth's and wet clutches - they don't go well together, the only way to 'cure' mine after making that mistake was to replace the clutch plates. so now only Rock oil goes in there ! even though i have to order it and have it sent direct, nowhere stocks it in the deep dark depths of north Devon!
Pete.

[gary tompkins]

go to halfords.. they have a mobil 1 10w 40 on offer for 20 quid. i put it in my m600 and its absolutely perfect...

FWIW

I've just run Mobil 10/40 in the trike for the last 2 oil changes (6000 miles) without any issues

Oil consumption has also reduced considerably in comparison to previous oils used

[Rally]

Just so you are aware, Mobil 1 has been stopped in production since Mobil were bought by Castrol. Castrol Power 1 is the same oil.
I would suggest this is why Halfords are selling the Mobil off cheap. Grab it while you can, it's great stuff and is usedby loads of formula 1 teams and Rally teams as well. It doesn't have a sell by date, so will be fine. :D

[Lowsider]

And just to put the Cat among the pigeons...

Spoken to Ducati Leeds who service my bike for me and asked what they put in.....

Motul 300V 15w-50 Fully Synth......

Hows about that then! Now I am totally confused

[analogue_rogue]

FWIW

I've just run Mobil 10/40 in the trike for the last 2 oil changes (6000 miles) without any issues

Oil consumption has also reduced considerably in comparison to previous oils used

Same here! And it comrs in 5 litre cans so two cans do three oil changes....

[He11cat]

Blood sweat and tears !!

[a7avenger]

Whatever oil you use it should be motorcycle specific, they are designed to withstand the greater heat and pressures generated by an aircooled engine.
Fully synthetic oils contain friction modifiers, there are different types of additives that oil manufacturers use that come under the broad heading of friction modifiers, some of these affect the clutch some do not, bike oil contains the ones that do not.
The same cannot be said for car oils.
There is a code for oils which are specific for wet clutches, MA or something can't remember at the moment.
Hope this helps.

Steve.

[analogue_rogue]

The oil I run in my m600 is not motorcycle specific so I guess that makes it car oil and i have never had problem....... but then there is the old diesel oil argument. The old boys in the garages swear by diesel having diesel oil. the only difference is the detergent additive that due to modern diesel engines and modern oils is no longer needed...... so normal non diesel specific oil is fine for diesel.

Then here are oil snobs. And this isn't aimed at anyone but we have all met them they pay for the brand of oil. Not its perfomrance and then try and justifiy by saying it does so much more......

IT'S BLOODY OIL!!!!!!

End rant......

[gary tompkins]

Whatever oil you use it should be motorcycle specific, they are designed to withstand the greater heat and pressures generated by an aircooled engine.
Fully synthetic oils contain friction modifiers, there are different types of additives that oil manufacturers use that come under the broad heading of friction modifiers, some of these affect the clutch some do not, bike oil contains the ones that do not.
The same cannot be said for car oils.
There is a code for oils which are specific for wet clutches, MA or something can't remember at the moment.
Hope this helps.

Steve.

Shell Advance fully sythetic caused such bad clutch slip on my 600 that I was forced to drain and replace it after a few miles. The Shell Advance I used was bike specific oil purchased at a local dealers... go figure :scratch: Complete waste of £35 and I haven't bothered using full synthetic in any of my monsters since :thumbsdown:

I still make a habit of changing the oill at 3000 mile intervals rather than 6000 specified by Ducati, and swap the oil filter at every other oil change. I figure the fresh regular oil is a good investment - helping to prevent premature engine wear.

[utopia]

A fair enough rant....but.
I reckon there is some sense in using motorcycle specific oil, particularly if its recommended for air cooled engines. Also, bike engines rev higher than car engines, often have wet clutches and integral gearboxes, etc. so their requirements will be different.
Its false economy to skimp on oil, but yes...that can be taken too far.
Its probably better to change the oil more frequently, than to shell out on expensive, niche market brands. On my diesel cars, I tend to aim to change the oil twice as frequently as recommended, though I leave the filter til the normal intervals.
Plus, there might be something to be said for sticking to major manufacturers, on the grounds that they have more funds to spare for testing and development than smaller companies.
On the other hand,smaller firms like Silkolene, who focus on motorcycles, seem to have been able to survive for decades in the face of market domination by the well known brands, so that must say something about their quality and suitability for motorcycles.
In the absence of any other information, I tend to stick to the manufacturers recommended brand most of the time, and also to stick to one brand only once I've made the decision, to avoid any unforeseen (though unlikely) problems with mixing of different brands.

[a7avenger]

The oil I run in my m600 is not motorcycle specific so I guess that makes it car oil and i have never had problem....... but then there is the old diesel oil argument. The old boys in the garages swear by diesel having diesel oil. the only difference is the detergent additive that due to modern diesel engines and modern oils is no longer needed...... so normal non diesel specific oil is fine for diesel.

Then here are oil snobs. And this isn't aimed at anyone but we have all met them they pay for the brand of oil. Not its perfomrance and then try and justifiy by saying it does so much more......

IT'S BLOODY OIL!!!!!!

End rant......

I'm really pleased to hear that you are not having a problem with your car oil, I guess that you must have either a good clutch, are quite lucky or you ride your bike like an old lady on her push bike.
Yes there are oil snobs, you know more money than sence and all that but similarly there are also oil skinflints who try to skrimp and save every last penny, these can sometimes be seen on the oil section at Wilcos but hell they must be right as it's only bloody oil.

[analogue_rogue]

I'm really pleased to hear that you are not having a problem with your car oil, I guess that you must have either a good clutch, are quite lucky or you ride your bike like an old lady on her push bike.
.

Fella, wind your neck in. no need to be rude is there. Why are you being so defensive?

I have been a mechanic for 16 years and the ratings on the oil tell you everything about it so as long as you have more than a little "home enthusiasts" knowledge about lubricants and engines then there is no need to buy "bike" oil.
If you choose to waste money on overpriced brands to do the job because you cant understand the ratings and just listen to the man in the shop thats your bag. But he is a salesman.. thats his job remember....

I dont tend to shop in wilkos and i dont use harrods either. but then i dont put my bike into ducati for repairs. does that make me a skinflint or sensible? it doesnt have a warranty and i can repair it myself so why waste the money. It is only bloody oil. you dont need to mortgage your house just to do an oil change, but im not suggesting you go grabbing anything and stick it in your engine.

[analogue_rogue]

the MA or MB rating your talknig about is the JASO rating. They are designed specifically for motorcycles. MA has NO friction additives and MB does have them.

here is a little excert to help:

JASO The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) has created their own set of performance and quality standards for petrol engines of Japanese origin.

For 4-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO T904 standard is used, and is particularly relevant to motorcycle engines. The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are designed to distinguish oils that are approved for wet clutch use, and the JASO T904-MB standard is not suitable for wet clutch use.

For 2-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO M345 (FA, FB, FC) standard is used, and this refers particularly to low ash, lubricity, detergency, low smoke and exhaust blocking.

These standards, especially JASO-MA and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories.

And a little on JASO:

The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (日本自動車規格, Nihon Jidōsha Kikaku?, JASO) is an organization that sets automotive standards in Japan, analogous to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) in the United States. JASO also sets standards for grades of oil; the highest grade for two-stroke engines being JASO FC, and JASO MA for four-stroke engines (motorcycles).



Now i know this is from wiki... but it was the most concise answer, the UK uses the old API ratings or the more modern ILSAC ratings.. And you can find which oils have or do not have this additive.

i can research that too if anyone else wants me to.

[bialbero]

..............so, if it's only bloody Oil what's our view then on Castrol R40?

[analogue_rogue]

its oil. Made by castrol. :D I dont know to be honest mate, I dont profess to be an expert in lubrications.. (not rude) there are years of study in this subject. All I did was point out that you dont need to put motorcycle oil in bikes as other oils will do the same job, and point out some people spend way too much on oils that whilst it will do the job was a little over and above what they actually needed...... andd POW i get jumped on with rude digs...

Found this though...:
When selecting an engine lubricant for sports cars, modified saloons or high performance
motorcycles, it must not be assumed that a special oil is always necessary. In the vast
majority of cases the well-known, widely available brands of Castrol motor oil are
entirely satisfactory for racing, and most modified and tuned production vehicles will
operate perfectly well on these. Where special camshafts are fitted though, there may be
a case for using Castrol R30 & R40 as the small areas in contact will be heavily loaded
especially where double valve springs are fitted.

found at: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/castrol/Castrol%20R40.pdf

[bialbero]

Oil!! one amongst many subcects people fall out about it. No harm done.

R40 is the oil I always used on my bevelhead ducatis because they have roller bearings rather then plain bearings and you get a high load on the bevelgears which is when the excellent shear stability of caster oil comes to help.

besides this, it smells gorgeous when it gets burned which ultimately happens in a internal combustion engine

[utopia]

Mmmmmm, yes.......Castrol R.
Race meetings haven't been the same since that heady aroma disappeared.

[bialbero]

i use it in my monster too and since i don't ride in the winter a single grade oil is not a problem for me.

[gary tompkins]

..............so, if it's only bloody Oil what's our view then on Castrol R40?

Cooks nice chips

[utopia]

That reminds me, my mate had a ratty AJS scrambler when he was in his early teens.
The story was that he ran it on cooking oil.
Apparently every time he went through the village, he left a cloud of chip-shop aroma in his wake.
Didn't last long, though.

[analogue_rogue]

That reminds me, my mate had a ratty AJS scrambler when he was in his early teens.
The story was that he ran it on cooking oil.
Apparently every time he went through the village, he left a cloud of chip-shop aroma in his wake.
Didn't last long, though.

what a champ... i love chip shop smell... i havent had the balls to put it in my diesel yet... im told you dont need to do anything except filter the bits out....

[gary tompkins]

what a champ... i love chip shop smell... i havent had the balls to put it in my diesel yet... im told you dont need to do anything except filter the bits out....

...and tell the inland revenue

:grump:

[utopia]

My mate used it as a lubricant, not as a fuel.
I have heard of unrefined coconut oil being used (as fuel) in diesel tractors....cuba, if memory serves, though probably not the only place.
That must smell quite pleasant.

[analogue_rogue]

I think coconut oil costs more than Diesel here tho...

[a7avenger]

Fella, wind your neck in. no need to be rude is there. Why are you being so defensive?

I have been a mechanic for 16 years and the ratings on the oil tell you everything about it so as long as you have more than a little "home enthusiasts" knowledge about lubricants and engines then there is no need to buy "bike" oil.
If you choose to waste money on overpriced brands to do the job because you cant understand the ratings and just listen to the man in the shop thats your bag. But he is a salesman.. thats his job remember....

I dont tend to shop in wilkos and i dont use harrods either. but then i dont put my bike into ducati for repairs. does that make me a skinflint or sensible? it doesnt have a warranty and i can repair it myself so why waste the money. It is only bloody oil. you dont need to mortgage your house just to do an oil change, but im not suggesting you go grabbing anything and stick it in your engine.

Yeah I was a bit grumpy and I apologise for that, I'm not making excuses but I'd had the mother of all **** days that day.
All the best.

Steve.

[analogue_rogue]

No bother :-)