M620i STUCK STARTER MOTOR

[motomartin11]

Help.....please.I tried to fire up my bike today and the engine will turn over and fire but the starter moto keeps running even AFTER releasing the starter button and only stops when the ignition is turned off.

What's this likely to be and what's the easist cure?

Thanks in anticipation.

[Nickj]

Give the switch block a good swill out with some contact cleaner or something like WD for starters. That probably won't fix it though.
You need to find the starter relay and check that, sometimes the contacts either get sticky or otherwise stuck together. Often just a clean of the contact faces will sort this. Depends how you are with with electro mechanical stuff whether you choose to try to fix or replace.
Also search the forum as you'll find the cross reference for this which you can get from a motor factor or halfrauds for a few quid.

[motomartin11]

Thanks for that.I separated the r/h switchgear and sprayed with WD40.As you predicted that didn't work so i took the plastic cover off the relay and undid the two nuts holding the starter wiring,cleaned and sprayed with WD and re-assembled.There was any corrosion surprisingly.Still the same on re-assembly.As it was dark by then i couldn't see round the other side of the relay.Is there anything to strip and clean there and if so how do i get it off?Please bear in mind(see previous post)i can't get the seat off to disconnect the battery so i need to be careful!

[Starter Sprag]

You usually have 4 'circuits' on your bike

1. the handle bar start button, and kill switch
2. the starter contactor, large cable and nuts, goes straight to starter motor
3. the injection relay, under tank, near to ECU
4. the ignition relay, usually a yellow square block

I suspect it's the yellow ignition relay, you'll only get to it by removing seat, it can be carefully taken apart, to clean and inspect the small contacts, or just replace with new one

I've heard if you battery is low on charge, it can cause the contacts to 'arc' and 'fuse' together

[Dookbob]

It`s got to be the starter switch, the relay, or the solenoid that is sticking. I think you may be mistaking the solenoid for the relay from what you say. The solenoid is the bit where the two heavy duty cables are bolted to. A tap with a hammer can sometimes free them up, but it will need replacing anyway if this is the component that is sticking. Same with the relay, these parts dont last forever.

[motomartin11]

Just to confirm please....Is the relay and solenoid one single or two separate components?

[Pomp1]

Just to confirm please....Is the relay and solenoid one single or two separate components?

separate components.This is a solenoid (I know is only marked relay, but is a solenoid relay)

http://ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/img/starter_relay.jpg

the main relay is a yellow box

[motomartin11]

Many thanks.Could you or anyone tell me where to find the yellow relay please?

[Char]

Would also suggest changing your name to Rachael - you may get someone to pop round and help out - worked for me (real name's Bob) :look:

[Gordon H]

(real name's Bob) :look:


Knew it!!!

[motomartin11]

I hope you're not implying my little 620's a girls' bike?!

[crust]

I hope you're not implying my little 620's a girls' bike?!

Too small to be a girls bike in this club, they've all got big'uns, ooer

[pooh]

The problem is the small black relay on the left hand side of the battery under the tank . There are two side by side and this is a common fault I have a couple of spare ones in the cupboard as the first one failed with less than six miles on the clock. They are about 20mm square. They are not reliable you will need a new one

Ian

[motomartin11]

Cheers.

Is there any way of testing them and where's the best place to get then from?

[pooh]

There are two of them so you can swipe them over and try it. The only place to get one is from your local ducts dealer.

Ian

[Dookbob]

Just to confirm please....Is the relay and solenoid one single or two separate components?

OK, lets try this again, the relay and the solenoid on this bike is one in the same component. I didn,t realise this when I posted earlier. Old guys like me call a solenoid a solenoid, Ducati have other ideas on this, they call it a relay. So its either the starter switch on the handlebar, or the "RELAY" that is your problem. It,s most likely to be the relay. This is located on the right hand side of the bike below the battery and just behind the throttle quadrant,( the shiny bit that the throttle cable connects to). If this component wont work, then it can be made to work. If it wont stop working (as in your case) then it needs replacing.
The confusion is caused by the terminology, a relay is usually a small (25 mm or so) black plastic cube shaped gadget with 4 or sometimes 5 smallish wires connected to it, just to confuse you even more, they can also be yellow in certain applications. A solenoid is a heavier duty device altogether carrying 30 amps or so from the battery direct to the starter motor, and for some reason that escapes me, Ducati insist on calling it a relay. OK , it does a similar job to a relay, but on a heavier duty cycle.
So, you are looking for a part with a twin terminal connector going to it carrying 12 volts from the starter switch, and two much bigger, thicker cables attatched by nuts and washers , of which one of them runs directly to the starter motor. Please let us know how you go on with this , I have to know , its getting to me . ( and I have been drinking, sorry about that, I have been told that I should know better)

[pooh]

Dookbob
doubt its the solenoid and remember the starter butoon on the handlebar is connected to the speedo which then actuates the starter solenoid and then starts the engine.The fault in this case is the small ssrelay which on our 620ie is situated along with another one which controls the fuel pump. As described I have had this problem several times and the main indicator is that the starter motor continues to run after you let the button go.

Ian

[motomartin11]

OK,many thanks boys.I thought i knew the difference between a relay and a solenoid but this is my first Duke after many (mostly reliable) Japs,a couple of Guzzis,Brits and one German bike.Just goes to show that you can still learn something new every day even at my age.

In my many years of biking i can't recall ever having this problem.With my other bikes it's usually the battery which dies and causes the problems.This problem is compounded on the Duke as i haven't yet been able to access the battery as i can't get the seat off.Some of you will have seen my posts about that and after all the replies i have now devised a cunning plan to attack the bike but don't think i can do it til the weekend now!

I will update you all as soon i can.As it's winter,the roads are covered in snow or salt,there's nothing on the tele so what else is there to do but go on a bike forum!

[utopia]

Electrics, eh ?
Up to now i've been glad that my 750 is a carby so's to avoid a whole swathe of potential electrics gremlins.
I'm beginning to wish they made a kickstart model now.......:hissy:

[motomartin11]

Don't go there as also own an 500 Enfield Bullet which has both electric and kick start.You can risk a broken ankle with the kick or broken sprag clutch with the electric!

[Dookbob]

Thanks for that Pooh, I didn,t know that the starter system was routed through the instrument cluster, but now that I do know , I,m not surprised. My last 620 cost me £400 for a new cluster when the immobiliser packed up, I have now gone back to a carb 600. Everything I read about the injection models makes me glad I did.

[utopia]

Who'd have a ducati with EXTRA electricals anyway.....??

I do own a kick-only 750 commando, but its still the basket case that it was when I bought it, so my ankle remains intact for the time being.

[Dookbob]

I had one of those Commandos in a past life, mine had the combo kick start and starter motor, still had to kick it though. The one thing you can definitely say about the Ducati starter motors is that they do exactly what they are supposed to do.

[motomartin11]

Right those of you who've seen my other post will know i've got to the battery today.I saw the two relays and note one also controls the fuel pump.Does anyone know which is the fuel pump one and which is the starter circuit one?If i swap them assuming the starter motor stops turning when i stop pressing the button it will be down to the faulty relay?I suppose the engine won't run however due to no fuel being pumped to the injectors as the faulty relay will prevent this?I did phone my local Ducati dealer(Wolverhampton)to source a replacement relay but there was no answer- presumably due to the snow we've had here today.

[pooh]

Take one out and take it to your local car parts shop the relays are fairly standard and only cost a few quid so its worth changing both.

Ian

[motomartin11]

Cheers.There's a fairly local European car parts shop close by-I'll try there first.

[motomartin11]

Right....here is the update at last...just in time for Xmas!

Went to the local Euro car parts emporium but they couldn't or wouldn't help.I then phoned the local dealer (Ducati Wolverhampton)and spoke to a really helpful chap who told me the starter actually stays engaged once the button is pressed until the engine starts and therefore i should try it again for a good few seconds.I did this and yes it started and the starter stopped once the engine was running.

I also spoke to a clued up mate who asked whether i'd recently changed the oil and yes i have.I used a mix of 10/40 mineral and semi synth car and bike oils.Apparently quite a few bikes(Japs included)are very sensitive to the oil spec which if wrong causes the starter clutch mechanism to stick until the engine starts.He even knew of someone who changed all the clutch parts including the basket to no avail until he put the correct grade oil in!

Thanks again for all the posts anyway and let's hope mine's fixed now.If not the next thing i may need to do is to change the oil for a 10/40 semi synth followed by the relay followed by the solenoid i think!

[utopia]

I wouldn't mix oils.....you never quite know what you're getting, but I can't see it being good.
I'd change it now.
The old filter would probably be ok if you drained it.

[motomartin11]

No i don't think i'll do it again!Trouble is i'm too tight to buy more if i've got say 2 litres of one and three of another i tend to mix them.Always have without any trouble.As long as they are of the same type.I know you can't mix mineral and castor based!As technology has become more complex there's less room for compromose!