Swingarm pivot roller-bearing removal

[mintyhit]

...but of a mouthfull :)

So I noticed one of the four bearings in the engine block that the swingarm shaft pivots on is completely knackered. Does anyone have any tips on how to remove these?

I am hoping I just drift them all out, replace the broken one and knock them back in again but perhaps the seals need changing as well?

Thanks again!
James

[jerry]

Get some big M12 expanding raw bolts and threaded spacers and some M12 studding rod a few big washers and make it up to act like a bearing puller slide hammer for £5 instead of £100

[Trent]

Get some big M12 expanding raw bolts and threaded spacers and some M12 studding rod a few big washers and make it up to act like a bearing puller slide hammer for £5 instead of £100

+1

If you drift them out, you'll damage them and have to buy a complete set... If you try to drift the new ones in, you'll damage them as well.

You need to pull them out with a puller (if you're going to re-use them) and press them back in.

[Starter Sprag]

Once removed scrap them, do not refit

Buy 4 new needle roller bearings and 2 new seals

'DRAW' them in using M12 stud iron, clean and lube all surfaces first

[mintyhit]

Ahhh, glad I asked.

Ok, so opinion lies heavily against drifting them.

I’ll go to the hardware shop at lunch and see if I can get some bits to fabricate a puller. I’ll try my best to get them out without damaging first but if they all have to be replaced then so be it. :)

Thanks again for the replies, I’ll let you know how I get on.

Cheers
James

[jerry]

Look on the web at proffessional bearing puller kits then copy them as i did

[mintyhit]

Bastard stubborn-arse bearings!!

They are stuck\seized in there good and proper… I followed everyone’s advice and fashioned a puller out of an M12 expanding plug, was quite pleased with my effort and it seemed to get a good grip on the outer bearing… unfortunately after 2 hours of swearing last night all I managed to do was destroy and remove the innards of the bearing leaving the otter shell still lodged firmly in place.

No amount of heat, cold, penetrating oil or gentle persuasion with the bolt driven puller or a hammer would get it to budge.

I have decided to have another go tonight and go from the back of the second bearing rather then concentrating on the outer one. I might as well change both on that side now.

So my question is: Do these bearing sit against a raised seat in the engine block or is there a spacer? I imagine it would be just too easy to drive them all our from one side of the engine so I assume I am going to have to get behind both and try to expand the plug behind the inner making sure it is not behind the seat in the engine block?

Either that or resort to a cutting it out but this option has bad news written all over it.

Arrrhhh…

[mintyhit]

Oh and this is all the information the workshop manual offers on the subject:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1302/4681965362_23c88f5023_b.jpg

How incredibly vague… :(

[Albie]

I dont know of anybody having to change these before. All I can say is good luck and study before making big blows on it. I guess if anyone who had a set of crankcases to study might see another way as drifting seem now the only option. Trouble is you need to go down to around 8-10 mm diameter to be able to get an angle through the distance of about 6inches of hole. Once you get one side out it should be better.

How deep are they set in btw and I guess a dremel would take forever as a bit too hard

[Kato]

I have a need to change some, I like you have spent much time swearing and shouting at them, and have now decided to split the crank cases apart and do it from the inside.

[Albie]

I have a need to change some, I like you have spent much time swearing and shouting at them, and have now decided to split the crank cases apart and do it from the inside.

Oh dear is it that hard to do. I guess its easier but such a time consuming thing for someone whos engines ok.

How much of the outer bearing is there to be able to drift out from the other side. 1 mm or less do you think. Or is the outer race flush now with the machined seat.

[Kato]

Albie, spot on mate, there is about .5mm to drift on and there in the hole good and tight with bearing Lock, mine had dried out and worn the pivot pin oval, at least its a spare motor so I'm in no rush to fight it.

[Albie]

Theres is obviously some way of making a tool but it would end up being expensive and time consuming . I guess only luck otherwise or the other scenario is you wreck you cases.

Ideally you need a 2 or 3 legged hook made of tool steel that you could either wind out or slide hammer.

Its only an idea but working on the principal of bar ends where they have a 45 degree cut and they open up. I have an old s4 brass one I will look at to see if its feasible.

Probs not though

[Trent]

I removed the ones on a Monster 1000 S once...

Starting from the outside, there is a seal, then 2x bearings, then another seal and finally a circlip. This is the same on both sides of the engine.

I assume the circlip stops the bearings from being pushed too far into the cases.

With the circlip in there, you won't be able to push the bearings all the way through - You'll have to try and push them out from the centre.
(Having said that, I used a press to push them through from the outside - It didn't do the circlips and grooves much good though!)

A bead of weld along the inner length of the bearing will shrink it and make it easier to remove (if you have access to a welder)

[mintyhit]

Ha!

Mintyhit – 1
Bastard Bearing - 0

I feel ashamed at my methods though:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4684330503_a0bdf23fd6.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/4684330501_04c09ec421.jpg

It was simply unbelievable how ridiculously tight that thing was in there! I broke my DIY\puller and my back trying to get it out last night and eventually resorted to dermal and a steady hand.

Lucky I managed to avoid scoring up the crankcase so I made a new puller ready for round two. After another hour, yet more heat and the application of what I imagine was many tones of pressure I was staggered to hear the satisfying creaking sound of the inner coming lose.

Hurrah, it is possible to do them without splitting the crank-case after all!

…just got to put the new ones in now! *gulp*

[Ducmon]

can you post a picture of your puller as I will have to do mine soon.

[mintyhit]

Haha, yeah sure!

The £6 Puller MK1 ended up in bits spread all over what I laughingly call my workshop but i'll take a picture of trusty MK2 tonight.

[Cutter]

Haven't been on forum for a while or would have commented sooner. Removed mine (which I intended to replace) by drifting from opposite side. So outer seal out with flate blade screw driver, then drift from opposite side to get out bearings using black and decker electric heat gun carefully on surrounding alloy. Mine were missing the internal seals! Circlips came out of their own accord :)

So have oprdered replacements and any tips on fitting them (as drifting seems to be out of question) much appreciated. ( I had intended to put bearings in freezer for a bit, then position circlips using long bladed screwdirvers to nadger them about up against inner lip. Then gently drift bearings using block of wood with inner seal popped in first.)

[mintyhit]

Hey Cutter,

I had planned on freezing the bearings, heating the block and then using a long threaded rod though and couple of big washers and nuts to force them back in again from the other side of the block.

It will certainly be easier on the bearings than drifting them in with a hammer.

I’ll take some pictures when I do for this post. :)

[Cutter]

Excellent. Many thanks mate!

[mintyhit]

Hi guys,

This is the tool I made, please bear with me as I proceed to make exactly no sense trying to explain it. :)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4688063372_c9192e3d85_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4688063368_e8b735c3b7.jpg

Basically it is just an M10 threaded rod with a M12 expanding bolt on it. There is a nut at the front (right in the picture) and a bolt at the rear. I have used 4 small sockets covered in tape so that tightening the rear nut will force the expanding bolt down and over the tapered end thus widening the split 3 sections behind the bearing.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4688063378_6caa1a210f_b.jpg

I reason I have used a M10 rod is so I can tighten the rear nut from the other side of the block as the expanding bolt is threaded and an M12 rod would have made impossible to reach.

I pushed the tool right through from the otherside of the block and behind the bearing I wanted to remove. Once the bolt is expanded (using the rear nut) I then attached another nut and some washers to the end, lock of the rear to stop the rod turning and start to tighten whilst heating to block with a heat gun. This pulls the bearing forward eventually to edge of the block. I then ditched the washers in favour of a socket with a larger diameter than the bearing and continue to pull.

Now this was just my method and I am not a particularly good engineer but it seemed to work well for bearing number two… as previously mentioned though I had to cut number one as it wouldn’t move for love nor money.

I hope this helps.

J

[jerry]

puller heat puller heat .......patience .....more puller and heat ....then damn get dremel and drift out....

[Cutter]

Minty, just wondering whether you had attempted to fit new bearings yet? I have been waiting weeks for the second part of my bearing/snap ring/seal order to arrive (only got 2 bearings and all four snap rings so far - two more bearings and four seals to come). As time goes by I am getting an increasing sense of dread re. fitting them....:eyepopping: If you have done it how did you position the snap rings?

[gary tompkins]

Useful thread - pity the pictures went AWOL

perhaps the OP could reload them?

[Stafford]

....then damn get dremel and drift out....

That's what I will be doing after destroying the cage and rollers, I'll then tease through the wall of the bearing with the Dremel. All should then fall out then. Blood sweat and tears to follow.

[Stafford]

Does anyone have a part number for the bearings so I can source them from a bearing supplier? Not the Ducati part number, ta.
Found it SKF HK2016

[Capo]

When I did mine (twice now) I recorded the bearing as Torrington HK2015 Ducati part number 76400.0004. BSR removed them with a special tool but they were unusable.
The inner one buts to a flange in the case so even with the cases split there is nothing to get a drift on.

[Dookbob]

I have never had to change these little blighters yet, but after reading Capo,s post I have decided what I will do is this. turn up a thick washer or a short plug that is just a nice push fit in the bearing, insert it, tack weld it in place in the bearing, then drift it out from the opposite side. Do this on all the four bearings. I would never reuse one of these bearings anyway , even if if they appeared to be in very good shape.

[Stafford]

When I did mine (twice now) I recorded the bearing as Torrington HK2015 Ducati part number 76400.0004.

Just in case, it may be a typo but the bearing is an HK2016 by Torrington.

[Capo]

Thanks for that Staff, it's my big fingers on a small keyboard.

[mintyhit]

Morning all, sorry about the pictures... I'll re-upload them all as soon as I get home.

It was a total b1tch of a job so it is definitely worth having this thread here to help anyone else attempting it.

Refitting really wasn’t very hard at all –

I basically used the threaded rod straight through the case and used large washers and nuts to tighten\clamp the bearings in. I gently did the seal first then a bearing at a time, the first I forced in with a washer until it was flush with the case and then I used the second bearing to force it in further then a socket to go the last few mm to make space for the seal.

The seals were quite fragile and I managed to mash my first one with the clamp system, luckily I ordered a few extra so I tried again using a really gentle drift and

I was pleased to get it all finished, quite possibly the most frustrating job I had to do in my rebuild… with the exception of getting the rear wheel back on single handed without a paddock stand. :)