Old Monster Rear Shock Replacement [Archive] - UK Monster Owners Club Forum

Gamsa

25-01-2010, 07:21 AM

Hi all, the options for my 1997 M750 are:

rear shock rebuild £100
Wilbers shock (£350 with no damping adjustment or £450 with) http://solocorse.co.uk/bike-suspension.php
Hagon adjustable preload & damping £295 http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/HagMono.htm (type N)
Ohlins £576(!) http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcode=HPPDU440&app=Y

Any other ideas/thoughts? The Hagon shock looks best value. Anyone had one?

Thanks!

gremlin

25-01-2010, 07:53 AM

Hagons are bargain basement, if you are serious at looking at ohlins, then have a look Here (http://www.extremetech.it/) the tech 2 variant are of similar price but WILL knock the spots of Ohlins :mand: they are now distributed / serviced / setup in the UK by my mate :thumbsup: (he can also service youur standard item..)

Gamsa

25-01-2010, 09:25 AM

I don't think I need anything quite that extravagant, which pretty much rules out the Ohlins & tech2. Wilbers seem the most likely with a really helpful sales manager who is answering all my questions and will build the shock to my weight and for road riding. There's no damping adjustment though, unless I want to pay £450. Is it worth another £100? Hagon seems to be slated by all...

Half Pint

25-01-2010, 09:44 AM

I know pro v twins had some ohlins for £350 it may be worth a call to see if they still have any deals?

Gamsa

25-01-2010, 10:09 AM

Thanks - I've sent them a message

Cutter

26-01-2010, 09:43 AM

Let us know how you get on lease mate cos I would be interested at that price!:eek:

Gamsa

26-01-2010, 10:17 PM

Come on guys; I need some guidance on this. Surely someone has tried the Hagon shock - is it really that bad? Is damping adjustment a worthwhile investement? Any extra £100 worth? Having never replaced a rear shock, I'm totally in the dark and would value your experiences....

Paranoid Dave

27-01-2010, 10:30 AM

I'm reading this with a lot of interest. I'm looking for a rear shock for a bike that's not going to see many miles. I'm not building a show piece but a tidy bike to bring out occasionally. Having inspected my old one, the chrome is pitted, the spring is flaked and rusty and the rest just looks knackered. Refurb is not an option and it seems daft to spend 400 on something if there's a cheaper option.

My guess is the Hagon can't be as bad as its made out to be, just similar to standard non adjustable. If you compare it to ohlins or tech3 etc then yes it probably seems sh1te. But has anyone actually had any experiences???

Gamsa

27-01-2010, 10:50 AM

The £295 Hagon shock actually has adjustable damping and preload, so on paper is a better choice than the £350 standard Wilbers item which has no damping adjustment. I just wish someone could tell me whether it's hopeless or not...

Gamsa

27-01-2010, 12:06 PM

The guys at pro v twins have just done me an Ohlins unit for £350+VAT. They've only got a few left, so get in touch if you're keen. http://www.protwins.co.uk/index.html

They've also got loads of carbon fibre bits including a tank which they want to move on at a bargain price. Worth giving them a call on 01342 892888 if you're keen.

scrapps

27-01-2010, 12:20 PM

good price

He11cat

27-01-2010, 12:44 PM

My Monster came with a newish..wasn't much fun to sit on and even with my ample bum wasn't a smooth ride... and I have ridden so well iffy shocks including a bottomed out one to get home (ouch)

Carl took it off and swapped me it for another shock that rides a lot better no idea what,
I was looking at hagons originally because I needed a shorter shock for my stupidly short legs and Hagon was really my only option...

most friends told me to buy hagon I have to say...but then they ride japs lol

Im not fussy .. maybe the shock wasn't right for the bike but it was a newish Hagon and can't say it felt fun!

Paranoid Dave

27-01-2010, 02:36 PM

Thanks gamsa, I called them and said 350+vat, "yes he's just been on the phone to us and robbed us blind" I hear you have another one... much scuffling and pass the phone on "ooh you're lucky it's the last one!"

So 350 + vat and they'll even cover half the postage. Much better than a Hagon me thinks.

I owe you one!

Gamsa

27-01-2010, 04:18 PM

No worries. Shame it's the last one they have, but they I think they said they may be able to get more in.

Half Pint

27-01-2010, 06:02 PM

bugger, should have kept my mouth shut... now you'll all have the same shiney shock as me... might ring them and see if i can get a refer a UKMOC member discount on some of the carbon bits.....

Big Daft Lad

27-01-2010, 06:07 PM

I put a basic Hagon (one combined comp/rebound adjuster + preload) on my old Bandit and thought it was worth every penny. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. Obviously they're not as good/adjustable as Ohlins etc but for a bike like a Monster, no problem.

Paranoid Dave

29-01-2010, 10:18 PM

Blimey, my new shock arrived today, if anyone can tell me where is best place to hang the reservoir thingy i'd appreciate it.

jerry

29-01-2010, 10:42 PM

But are they real OHLINS or Chinky copies .....like the Brembo stuff thats all over EBAY.Here in Thailand all the shops are full of Fake OHLINS and BREMBO bits

Paranoid Dave

30-01-2010, 07:54 AM

All standard Ohlins fitted to new dukes are fake thai/chinese copies. If you want the genuine stuff then buy direct from ohlins. At the end of the day it still does the job and looks the part at a reasonable price.

Gamsa

30-01-2010, 09:24 AM

These are genuine Ohlins judging by the build quality. The guys at pro v twins suggested clipping the reservoir to a frame rail. Am going to take a look at this today/tomorrow. Do you know which adjuster is for compression and which for rebound damping? There's one on the reservoir (I assume compression) and one at the bottom of the damping rod (rebound?).

Half Pint

30-01-2010, 09:39 AM

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/halfpint2008/IMG_3924-1.jpg?t=1264847877

Here is how i did mine, with advice from Pro's it actually does not get in the way which i thought it would....

Gamsa

30-01-2010, 12:08 PM

Thanks, that's helpful

supertjeduc

30-01-2010, 02:00 PM

Or
http://supertjeduc.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p833229599-4.jpg

He11cat

30-01-2010, 03:18 PM

very nice that!

steve wright

30-01-2010, 05:28 PM

Gamsa, ref adjusters you assume correctly.

He11cat

30-01-2010, 07:21 PM

Gamsa

30-01-2010, 08:19 PM

Thanks Steve

gremlin

31-01-2010, 10:34 AM

If you get a shock rebuilt do they tart it up.. ie will it come back with shiny paint???
Also does it take long to do.

The shocks fine it's just looking a bit rust spotty now .. or could I somehow paint it?? its just the spring thats looking grotty unlike the original yellow one .. and the purple hagon one.
Im not wanting to replace it as its a short shock and thats another issue I have had with other mono shock bikes.. short people are better with twin shocks!!

and I don't want to start having swing arms modded again to get a lower bike lol.

re-builds dont come back like new looking shocks, they just re-build the inner workings. you can get your spring powdercoated any colour you like though, they are easy to remove, and you can clean up the body whilst the springs off...

He11cat

31-01-2010, 11:20 AM

thanks for that!! it works fine .. hmm may have to get someone to take it apart I can't get my Showa's back together.. :(

Lowsider

31-01-2010, 11:40 AM

mine I mounted as it was intended on the M900Sie 2000 model.

Using bracket part number 829.1.250.1A

http://www.howroyd.co.uk/shock.jpg

Cutter

01-02-2010, 10:18 PM

As it fits your M600, does this mean that a shock intended for a M900Sie might fit my 96 M900?

slob

02-02-2010, 08:28 AM

http://www.protwins.co.uk/index.html

They've also got loads of carbon fibre bits including a tank which they want to move on at a bargain price. Worth giving them a call on 01342 892888 if you're keen.

Damn! the tank is for a carbie, not ie model.

Paranoid Dave

02-02-2010, 04:20 PM

ooooh unlucky. Did they say what the price was?

Gamsa

02-02-2010, 05:15 PM

The early Monsters had hoop-shaped rear shock brackets coming up off the swingarm, Cutter. Check yours, but I think this was designed out of later models.

slob

02-02-2010, 05:37 PM

Didn't ask... no point in haggling over something that won't fit.
I figured £400ish would be robbing them enough to keep me very interested.

gary tompkins

02-02-2010, 10:00 PM

Blimey, my new shock arrived today, if anyone can tell me where is best place to hang the reservoir thingy i'd appreciate it.

in the wardrobe? :pedro:

As it fits your M600, does this mean that a shock intended for a M900Sie might fit my 96 M900?

Depends on the model - early 900ie's (like mine) had hoop style rear suspension, later models were hoop-less like the S4 and 620ie chassis. You need the ohlins shock that matches your hooped 600 rear end.

Gamsa

03-02-2010, 06:04 PM

Apparently, someone phoned pro v twins about an Ohlins shock and they said they didn't have any left. One of their guys phoned me to say that they have one left, so get back in touch if you're still keen (they didn't take a contact number for you). Thanks, Adam

Cutter

05-02-2010, 10:57 AM

Gamsa - many thanks mate!!!! I just rang them and bought it for 421gbp inc postage and VAT. They confirmed these are the real deal. :thumbsup::hail:

I was watching a WP shock in Italy for around the same or a little less and had long conversation with the bloke. Only hesitated because of confusion re older and newer 900i.e. s having hoop and no hoop. I need a hoop compatible shock as I have a 96 M900. If anyone interested the Italian guy has 100% good feedback over a lor of sales and reckons he has new WP shocks for lots of models of Monster at around 350gbp plus postage. See here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230431346845

Also thanks to Gary for advice.

So have now spent all the money on M900 project that I freed up by selling CB1300 and buying older Firestorm. FCR's coming from California, lightweight flywheel from Germany and Ohlins from Pro-Twins. Will have to start saving and ebaying to get readies for powdercoating and painting, fork set up, dash etc.:running:

Gamsa

06-02-2010, 09:44 AM

Sounds like you'll have a tasty Monster at the end of that. I've often wondered how the Keihins and lightened flywheel would affect performance. Can't wait to hear from you!

Cutter

07-02-2010, 09:15 AM

I'll be sure to update on here, although this is a leisurely project (cos I am lazy and busy) so it won't be on the street for a while. I also need to update my blog which hasn't seen much change since Christmas www.chickenshackducatiproject.blogspot.com. It's a load of old blither but it does document the bike strip down so far.

Gamsa

07-02-2010, 10:06 AM

Interesting blog - you may be the only person whose Monster shares its home with chickens...

Thirdway

07-02-2010, 12:38 PM

The monster forum is pretty quiet whan it comes to suspension mods, which is almost an obsession on the Street Triple forum.

A couple of points:

You don't need remote canisters and every which way adjustable suspension unless you are racing or do a lot of track days. Basic adjustability for pre-load/compression/rebound is more than enough.

A good alternative to Ohlins which I have recommended many times is Nitron.

Just buy the standard road shock........I know you won't because of a belief that all the knobs and levers are necessary:D but that's what I would recommend.

slob

07-02-2010, 01:23 PM

The remote preload adjuster knob (on both) my Ohlins shock(s) is worth its weight in gold, being able to whack up the preload before taking a pillion and versa vice, without 20 minutes of c-spanner and skinned knuckles.

Cutter

07-02-2010, 02:54 PM

I wanted an Ohlins or WP for shallow aesthetic and cultural reasons as well as performance ones. On the front end I am going with a re-valve and respring on the standard un-adjustable forks base on advice on this forum (and because I had the chance to get a beautiful Cyclecat Yoke that fitted standard fork legs at a good price), so I don't just buy the thing with the cred and the shiny knobs.
I'm not building a competition machine, and the standard handling was pretty good compared to most bikes I have owned. For me - and this is a very personal thing, there is a certain mix of looks/performance/value/cred. They all have to be balanced at the right level for me. Ohlins look good, they are built to a high quality, the performance is unquestioned providing they are set-up right, and this shock was available at around the same price as a non remote reservoir Nitron.
This project is a treat for someone who starting reading Custom Car, Bike, Easyrider, Perfomance Bike as a kid and always loved tastefully modified vehicles. I never had the confidence, time or pennies before, but now I am in my late forties and I do, and this is my gentle start. Kit like Ohlins has petrolhead cultural significance for me - it is part of the magic mix that if kept in balance will make this a special I am proud of.
Not flaming Thirdway's helpful post here - just explaining my ethos....

Cutter

07-02-2010, 02:56 PM

Re blog - cheers mate - hoping to update today if I get a chance....

Gamsa

07-02-2010, 03:45 PM

Cutter

07-02-2010, 04:24 PM

Yep, mine too I guess as from same source at same price....

steve wright

07-02-2010, 04:56 PM

Gamsa/Cutter
did they recomend any base settings for Sag/preload, Compression and rebound when you bought them?

Cutter

07-02-2010, 05:27 PM

Pro-twins didn't. There may be some recommendations in the instructions but mine hasn't arrived yet - Gamsa any base settings come with yours?

slob

07-02-2010, 05:36 PM

http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products/Motorcycle/Products/Sport/DU-440/

owners manual link here.
If that's not the correct model use the search feature (although the setup procedure is pretty much the same across the range and sag setting will be the very similar for all monsters)

Gamsa

07-02-2010, 06:06 PM

Thanks Slob. Preload will vary with rider's weight. The ideal, so I hear, is to have 1/3 of the suspension travel taken up when you sit on the bike, leaving 2/3 travel for bumps and enough room for critical damping back to the base setting. I've never had damping adjustment on suspension before, so that's going to be quite an adventure. I've managed to mount the reservoir in a similar fashion to supertjeduc's but rotated round enough to refit the plastics (with a small cutaway). I'll post photos.

slob

07-02-2010, 09:16 PM

Yes, read the manual, it explains setting up ride height for your weight, which is as close as you're going to get without buying a new spring. With the static/rider sag set, damping at a middlish starting point for both compression and rebound and no changes to the front, your bike will feel so much better you'll wonder why anyone would ever buy a non 'S' model Ducati just to save a couple of grand.

Thirdway

08-02-2010, 10:25 AM

The Ohlins I have just boasts preload, compression and rebound damping. It is the basic suspension you recommend, Thirdway, but with a reservoir. I am jealous of Slob's remote preload adjuster, though. That would be mighty useful.

Yes, remote preload is pretty handy.

My mistake, I got the impression people were buying the fancy pants h/l compression, multi-everything adjustable.

Some guys on the Street triple forum ignored the advice and it wasn't long before they were completely confused about setting up.

In the end, correct spring and matched damping is pretty much all that is needed..........except for remote preload that is ;)

Thirdway

08-02-2010, 10:38 AM

Now for an extra 20 points can anyone explain the following.

What is the difference between the suspension unit on a bike that has a rising rate bellcrank linkage and a bike (such as the Monster 696/1100 KTM SuperDuke/SM) that has no linkages.

Is the shock/spring a progressive unit on the no link system or is that not required because of the shock position/geometry ??

Gamsa

08-02-2010, 05:24 PM

OK, all, I've found a pretty sensible place to mount the reservoir. It doesn't get in the way of preload adjustment, doesn't have too tight a kink on the braided pipe, isn't too close to the exhaust and doesn't get in the way of the suspension linkage's movement. I've cut away a small amount of the underseat plastic to make compression damping adjustment easier, but this wasn't really necessary.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3848/imag0010q.jpg

Gamsa

08-02-2010, 05:39 PM

Gamsa

08-02-2010, 05:42 PM

I've just seen the photo on page two, with the reservoir rotated by 180 degrees. Looks like it puts less stress on the pipe and hence would be a better solution. I'm going out to the garage to give it a try...

uksurfer

08-02-2010, 05:58 PM

looking good Gamsa, haven't got a clue what your on about but it sounds good :mand:

I see you got your seat cowl back on, how is it?

cheers martin

Gamsa

08-02-2010, 06:27 PM

Lowsider, I can't get my reservoir on like yours without removing the crank breather box. Is this what you've done?

uksurfer - I've stuck the cowl back on now. It's a bit scratched but some of it may polish out, or at least look a bit better. I'm going to buy some grey enamel paint to cover over the edges where it was rubbed back to the red plastic. That was an amazing spot by the side of the road!

Thirdway

08-02-2010, 11:32 PM

The linkage question is interesting, Thirdway. The geometry of a rising rate system, as you know, allows a single spring rate shock to behave in a progressive manner by altering the geometry of the pivot as the swingarm rises. This is essentially the same idea as progressive springs. Is it a good idea? I'm not sure. No doubt it depends on the sort of riding you're doing - mx or road riding, for example, ask different questions of suspension. I'd be interested to hear someone's thoughts on this...

I read something about placing the shock on one side of a Scalene triangle and off to one side. Certainly the shock on my bike uses a conventional linear spring.

Seems that this configuration is far better than a rising rate linkage as well as saving weight/complexity and allowing more space for the airbox etc. Apparently KTM's suspension guru had always maintained that none linkage was the way to go. It was all caused by the first attempt at modern mono shock on a racebike which struggled to work well due to poor damping and shock construction. Apparently the Japanese have stayed with it, convinced that they can make it work.

Apparently Yamaha had the best linkage system up to 2000 because they have never modified it since the very first designs. probably one of the reasons the previous R1's gave such a good quality ride.

Gamsa

09-02-2010, 07:01 AM

Thirdway

09-02-2010, 12:50 PM

I've trawled through a couple of internet searches about this. No one seems to be singing the praises of rising rate configurations, so I can't understand why they persist in designing bikes with them?

It seems to me that the hoop system on the early Monsters is essentially linear, with a single rate spring, so no attempt to be progressive there...

My monster 1100s is the first bike I have bought which made me forget completely about suspension. The handling is first rate and I have had plenty to compare it with. Maybe that simplicity of design is just inherent in the Monster range ?

gary tompkins

09-02-2010, 09:39 PM

I've trawled through a couple of internet searches about this. No one seems to be singing the praises of rising rate configurations, so I can't understand why they persist in designing bikes with them?

It seems to me that the hoop system on the early Monsters is essentially linear, with a single rate spring, so no attempt to be progressive there...

It's linkage system that makes the suspension progressive, so a linear spring rate can be used.

If you look at the way damper is mounted, it's bottom end's attached to the swing arm, and upper end to the rocker lever. This makes shock compress from both ends, and that combined with leverage geometry of swingarm/hoop/rocker assembly, gives a progressive increase in spring rate.

Gamsa

10-02-2010, 06:54 AM

Yes, that's right Gary, the shock does compress from both ends, but I'm not convinced it does so in a non-linear way, as required to produce a progressive effect. The hoop connects to a bell-crank type linkage but which pivots approximately in the middle off the frame, so the top compression is essentially linear. The bottom is attached to the swingarm, so also linear. Two lots of linear compression is still linear, not angularly dependent.

It may well be slightly non-linear, but to produce a noticeable effect, I'm guessing that bell-crank linkage would need to be pivoted further off-center. However, I certainly haven't done any calculations. I'm a little surprised that Ducati designers don't check these boards occasionally for feedback on their designs. It would be the best form of performance evaluation and could help shape future work. I'm sure they're busy people, and that most of the posts would not be of any interest to them, but as the final word on something like the suspension geometry, their input would be priceless.