Carbs and filter - stage 2 maybe?

[barrysampson]

Just bought my first Monster, and looking for help already :)

I've been reading through these forums and found a wealth of really great info (thank you all) but wanted to check that my thinking is heading in the right direction.

The bike is a '94 M600 with 14k on the clock. It was bought reasonably cheaply and is in need of some TLC, but it is a runner and came with 10 months tax and test.

The first thing that I think I need to look at is the carbs and filter. It idles nicely, pulls away well (although there is a lot of vibration around 20-30mph) and then accelerates smoothly up to about 70. Getting from 70-80 feels like a bit of a struggle, and 80+ is possible but the bike fels really unhappy.

I do realise that it's just a wee 600, and I didn't buy it as a speed machine, but it should definitely have more power at the top end than it does.

In terms of set up, it has Termis and the airbox has been modded (a triangular hole cut out of the lid so that the rim and the two trumpets remain). The air filter doesn't have any branding on it, but I don't think it's OEM and I'm sure it's not K&N. The element seems to be made of a thin plastic with holes in rather than the oil impregnated paper I expected.

So, my current plan of action is; bearing in mind the pipes and the modded airbox I was going to order a Stage 2 K&N filter (part no. 33-2003). As I have no idea of how the carbs are currently set up, and because they will likely need to be pulled apart and cleaned anyway, I also thought I may as well get a DynoJet stage 2 kit as well (part no. DJZ-7204). At least if I fit that I'll know what I'm working with.

So, my questions are;

Does it sound like the right thing to do, or should I be looking at coils or something else first?

I'm perfectly happy with pulling the carbs apart and fitting the DynoJet kit, but is there anywhere that I can find info on the right settings for the mixture etc? Should it just be set back to the defaults, or are there recommended settings for a stage 2 kit?

Bearing in mind it's age, am I likely to need a carb overhaul kit as well? I don't want to get the carbs apart and then find I need new gaskets!

And finally... I was thinking of buying the Dynojet kit and filter from fasterfilters.co.uk as they seem to be quite a bit cheaper than anyone else. I wondered if anyone had any experience of using them?

Sorry to be asking so much already!

Barry

[johnsy]

Hi,
I've fitted a stage 2 dyno-kit with no box and cone filters, the kit came with a guide, but i had troubles getting it to run above 5k rev. If you can afford to put it on a dyno it'll save time, if not be prepared to swap the needle heights or jets to find the right setting. The extra power is amazing.
P.s make sure the bike is hot when testing the settings (i didn't) it makes a big difference...

[barrysampson]

Hmm, thanks for the advice. It's the setting it up properly that worries me most. I'm not sure that I can justify the price of a dyno run.

[BluprintZ]

Same here Barry.
I fitted an ex-box exhaust system and K&N pod filters to my M900 last winter.
When i took it to the dyno man, it wouldn't pull above 85mph on the rolling road...wayyyy too weak a mixture.
The K&N's were replaced with a free-flow filter (with the airbox replaced), two fifty-pence size holes were added to the front of the airbox lid and a re-jet was done...happy days!
Sounds like you may have a similar problem with weak mixture, so you need to address this pronto mate.

G ; )

(ps; the price of a dyno run will far outweigh the price of a holed piston or two, that's if you can still get 600 pistons!)

[barrysampson]

Uh-oh, that doesn't sound good at all! :eyepopping:

Anyone recommend a dyno testing place near Southampton!?

[uksurfer]

try 'Moore Speed Racing' in Poole, they will do the whole job for you if you wish, i think i was quoted approx £300 inc. parts and set up on there dyno. Worth a try
http://moorespeedracing.com/contact.php

If you go in there shop, be warned and wear blinkers, they got some very nice stuff :look:

[barrysampson]

Thanks, that's definitely an option.

[barrysampson]

I think I may have a few more things to sort than I originally thought... ;)

I was reading about the 'pod removal' mod, and just popped out to the garage to have a look at the bike because it didn't seem to fit with what I had seen on it so far, and it has now become obvious to me that things are far from what they should be.

1. The pods are fitted to the bike but aren't connected to anything. On further inspection it is now actually pretty obvious to me that there is a large brass stub on the side of the carb that should have something connected to it (see carbs1.jpg). I can only easily see the one, but I've no doubt the same will be true with the other carb too.

I guess I just need to replace the breather hoses and filters. Do I need the official Ducati filters or os there a recommended (cheaper) alternative?

2. The float bowls are connected via a braided hose and on each float bowl there is another connection point for a banjo fitting. I gather these are for an oil warming system (see carbs2.jpg).

Am I ok to just blank off the two open connectors? Should I remove the hose or just leave it?

3. There are three stubs on the bottom of the fuel tank. The fuel line is connected to one of them and goes to the tap via a filter (that does at least seem ok). There is one labelled drainage, which I'm guessing should just have a hose on it to drop to the bottom of the bike. The third is labelled bleed and isn't connected to anything.

What should that bleed stub be connected to, if anything?

I think I should just take the carbs off for a good look over and a clean before I do anything else. How would I tell if they have been given the stage 2 treatment? Will the jets and needles be marked up with sizes?

I've read in a couple of places that 2.5 turns out is a good place to start with the mixture screw. Is that correct, and is there anything else I should be aware of?

Sorry for all the questions!

[Yorkie]

With a 600 the only things you need are an airfilter (K&N or similar) and a Factory Pro or Dynojet kit and a little set up time on a rolling road.

With the Airfilter there are loads of options, what is done to yours should still pull in enough air for the job required, many will cut the complete top off or just drill holes, remove the front part up to the snorkles. For a 600 i thing it is a little OTT fitting Pod Filters, but some like OTT!!!!

As for the breather Pod's junk them and fit a small filter on top of the breather. (Job done - and you have saved 5g in weight!!)

Welcome to the world of modding!!!

Yorkie

[barrysampson]

Thanks. I like the keep it simple approach :)

That 5g might make all the difference some day...

[Zimbo]

Sounds to me like the airbox has been modded but no jetting change to the carbs, this will certainly cause the bike to run lean and not pull at full throttle. Don't run it like that, it'll cause damage to the engine over time.
Fit the stage 2 dynojet kit and performance air filter, chop the rest of the airbox lid off to leave a big square hole.
Problems will almost certainly then be solved.

Reference the couple of posts above where there were problems getting the fuelling right after fitting the dynojet kit, both those bikes had junked the airbox and fitted pod filters. Pod filters are difficult to set up on the fuelling. keep the airbox and you should have no problems.

[barrysampson]

Thanks Zimbo. I'm hoping it's going to be as 'simple' as that.

Is there any way to check whether the carb has been rejetted? I've stripped and cleaned carbs before, but only ever using stock parts, so I have no idea how I would know if changes had ben made.

[Lowsider]

Hi and welcome to the M600 Mod club!!!

First thing I did when I got mine was DynoJet Stage 2, K&N airfilter with Aluminum surround, Termi High level pipes.

Since then the list has got a bit silly....

Have a look at the pictures below (link in signature)

Nick

[barrysampson]

Hi and welcome to the M600 Mod club!!!

First thing I did when I got mine was DynoJet Stage 2, K&N airfilter with Aluminum surround, Termi High level pipes.

Since then the list has got a bit silly....

Have a look at the pictures below (link in signature)

Nick

Very nice. Mine may have a little way to go before it looks anything like that... :chuckle:

[Lowsider]

hell you should have seen mine when i got it.

It had been used 24/7 365 and parked outside for 5 years...

The engine casings were a mess.

Too much money spent on it (or so the wife say's)

[barrysampson]

Well that's encouraging. I can either see me spending a small fortune on this one, or it being the first of many...

[Gilps]

Thanks Zimbo. I'm hoping it's going to be as 'simple' as that.

Is there any way to check whether the carb has been rejetted? I've stripped and cleaned carbs before, but only ever using stock parts, so I have no idea how I would know if changes had ben made.

Take a look at the jets. They have numbers on them. I think the stock jets are 134 on a 600. The Dynojet kit contains 2 sizes - 144 and 148 I think. Try the smaller size first as I found the larger ones run too rich.

[barrysampson]

Take a look at the jets. They have numbers on them. I think the stock jets are 134 on a 600. The Dynojet kit contains 2 sizes - 144 and 148 I think. Try the smaller size first as I found the larger ones run too rich.

Ah, cool. I think I'll have a look and see what's currently fitted before I spend the cash on a Dynojet kit.