S2R 1000 De-Cat Pipe Question

[vtaggart]

I have just fitted the Ducati De-Cat frt pipe on my S2R1000 2008 model, and running it with the standard pipes does anyone else run with this set up?

Why I ask is that I picked it up last night from the Dealer after 1st service and having it fitted but TBH I am very disappointed as it is running like a pig at low revs. I have ordered the rest of the termi system but really hope that it wont run like it is now. At take off if the revs drop below 2.5k rpm it flutters and back fires, in slow bents it dies and back fires its a real bitch to ride:( the enjoyment is gone

I am ready to pull the thing off again and fit it again when the termis come. what do you think, anyone else experience this?

thanks Vince

[hydromonkey]

Hi Vince

I have the same setup but have only experienced the symptoms you described once and that with in very warm weather and stuck in city traffic. In my normal riding I don't notice any problems as it is mostly open roads and I normally keep the engine spinning above 3K. From what I understand the closed loop system only alters the fueling below 3K so that could explain it. Desmo has had a similar experience to you and carried out a lot of research into it so should be more help.

I to am looking at getting the termi system to be on the safe side but after reading on an American site that they were discontinued I contacted Ducati uk who informed me that they are still in production but the factory is out of stock. So this could mean a bit of a wait.

Are you planning on fitting the cat again till they come?

[desmo]

Hi Vince

Desmo has had a similar experience to you and carried out a lot of research into it so should be more help.



Yep, I had exactly the same problem as you, although I was running a Remus end can in addition to the de-cat pipe.
To cut a very long story short, your bike is running way too lean because you have removed the cat & you now have two choices.
1. refit the cat & return it to standard or
2. Buy a DP ECU approx £550.00 & get the dealer to set up the fueling.

The bike will not run correctly with the standard ECU & because it uses a lamba sensor to control the air / fuel mixture in conjunction with the ECU, this can't be altered or over ridden.
The DP ECU allows you to remove the lamba sensor so it no longer has any effect on the fueling, the ECU can then be set up by the dealer to give a richer mixture.

I hope that all makes sense.

[vtaggart]

Thanks for the quick response guys

Looks like refitting the cat the best choice:hissy: An expensive lesson learned

Vince

[hydromonkey]

Looks like I was one of the lucky ones as it is only in when I take mine near heavy traffic that I get the symptoms, but long term I would not be comfortable keeping only the decat fitted for and am eager to change the ECU.

Desmo were you able to buy the ECU separately or did you have to buy the kit?

[binky]

I run a full termi system, F**** me it's loud :)
No problems at all.
Only issue I have had was grounding the front half of the system cornering (Full lean angle)
Sorted this by a slight alteration to the link pipe (Cut some off) and then moved one mounting bracket.
Can now run off the tyre before anything touches down.
With full system you get open air box and ECU.

[vtaggart]

Hi Rob

Have you any photos of the modification? I would like to see that.

cheers Vince

[S4R Dude]

This is interesting.

I have the Termis on my S4R and the ecu thingy that plugs in. My next purchase is going to be the cat elimination pipe and now i wonder if i can just replace the cat and ride or do i need to have the fueling set up?

As to the Lamba sensor.....i have no idea what this is or what it does, i presume it has never been removed as come MOT time i swap systems for a few weeks and run legal until i can be bothered to swap back.

Cheers for your advice in advance!

[desmo]

Just to explain in the simplist way I can of how the fueling works on the S2R 1000 cos there seems to be a lot of confusion on this subject.

before approx 2006 the S2R 800 & S2R 1000 run Magnetti Marelli open loop fuel systems, this means they were not fitted with lamba sensors, so an owner could alter the exhaust & then get the dealer to plug in the Ducati diagnostic equipment & adjust the fueling to suit, the original ecu would cope with this & there was liitle to be gained by fitting a DP ecu.

After approx 2006 when the European emmision regs were tightened up the S2R 800 & S2R 1000 were fitted with closed loop Magnetti Marelli fuel systems, this means that they were fitted with a lamba sensor screwed into the cat.
The way this system works is that the lamba sensor controls the fuel / air mixture up to 33% of the throttle opening (i.e where most of your riding is done) the higher rev range after the first 33% of throttle opening is open loop & is controlled via a pre-set map within the ecu.

Fitting a Power commander will only have an effect on pre- lamba sensor models, if fitted to a lamba sensor equiped bike it will have no effect whatsoever on the fueling for the first 33% of throttle opening.

Some other fuel enrichment devices have come to light in recent years & claim to overcome the lamba sensor / closed loop problem, one such device goes under several names for the same device (Techlusion / Kietech / Dobeck)
These are quite crude in the way they claim to work, they connect between the ecu & injectors, they modify / increase the fuel pulses to the injectors (i.e they add more fuel & richen the mixture) this is done via the buttons on the unit itself to gradually increase the fueling.
When I looked into this myself, these units were not readily available in the UK & I was somewhat dubious about there claims or effectiveness because of the obvious increase in fuel consumption plus you have to take into account that the ecu also looks at the air temp & oil temp sensors as well as the lamba sensor to control the fueling.

Some people think that by just disconnecting the lamba sensor this will cure the problem, it will not.
All this will do is bring on the fault light / mill light & put a fault code into the ecu.

Someone asked if the DP ecu is available seperately? yes it is price is approx £550.00 from your dealer.
If you fit one of these, do not program it with the red key, it can always be removed & sold on to someone else, if you program it with the red key it will only work on your bike & therfore cannot be sold on.

In hindsight, when I altered my exhaust I wish I had boght a Termi kit (cans / ecu / filter) it would have saved me a lot of time & agro, but you live & learn.

To sum up, if you own a bike fitted with a lamba sensor & you alter the end cans but retain the cat you can usually get away running the bike on the standard ecu.
But, if you replace the cat with a de-cat pipe the bike will run way too lean & symptoms includes backfiring on the over-run, discolouration of the de-cat pipe, flat spots in the fueling at low revs & engine running too hot with the risk of engine damage in hot weather or heavy traffic.
The only way to cure this is to fit another ecu which uses open loop fueling so you can disconect the lamba sensor (i.e the DP ecu) although there are other options on this (other makes of ecu) although in practice getting it set up by the dealer makes the DP ecu the simplist way to go.

I hope this goes someway to explaining peoples questions on the S2R 1000 fueling.

Desmo.

[hydromonkey]

Very good explanation of the problem Desmo. It would seem that I was not as lucky as I thought. Was out on a run this morning on some very twisty roads and nearly dropped the bike several times due to the poor fueling and miss/backfire at low revs. It was so bad that I have refitted the cat till the termi kit arrives.

It would seem that my luck was actually cooler weather masking the problem. I would go as far as to say that if you fit just the de-cat pipe to the closed loop bikes it can be quite dangerous.

[yellowfever]

After various trawling of threads and seeking advice on the site, I decided to get the full DP system fitted but used a marving de-cat link pipe as it is half the DP price and is stainless unlike the DP one which is mild steel. Overall this is not cheap but no regrets, great sound and fuelling seems as good as ever, if a bit thirstier.

When I get time to take some pictures I'll post some up plus a bit more details/thanks to those involved in advice here and the suppliers/fitters etc etc. But for now big thanks to all those who shared their experiences - exhaust buying ain't cheap so was great to have some excellent advice to make me confident enough to melt my credit card... My advice is you won't regret getting the DP kit, especially when you hear those termis with the baffles out....

[vtaggart]

Hi everyone

Right was out today and can safely say that it will not be out on it again without either the cat of full system with ecu, it stalled at least 12 times and as hydromonkey says it is fecking dangerous.

I have to say that I am disappointed that the dealer did not tell me this when I fitted it, in fact they recommended it. As I said I have ordered the system last week but was told it could be weeks/months before it comes. What is the normal delivery times (without back orders) when ordering from Ducati? as I want them fitted for the British GP @ Donnington

Thank you Desmo for taking the time to write such an accurate description a great help in understanding this problem.

Thanks to everyone for your input, cheers Vince

[binky]

Will post some pics tonight