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View Full Version : Got a photocard licence ? It may have expired !!!


NattyBoy
20-01-2009, 08:33 AM
Just got this...would appear to be right !! :>(

VERY INTERESTING READING BELOW:-


THIS IS NOT A JOKE. PLEASE READ THIS THROUGH, AND CHECK YOUR OWN LICENCE….IT COULD HAVE EXPIRED, WITHOUT YOU REALISING IT !!
Unwitting motorists face £1,000 fines as thousands of photocard driving licences expire
Thousands of motorists are at risk of being fined up to £1,000 because they are unwittingly driving without a valid licence.
They risk prosecution after failing to spot the extremely small print on their photocard licence which says it automatically expires after 10 years and has to be renewed - even though drivers are licensed to drive until the age of 70.
The fiasco has come to light a decade after the first batch of photo licences was issued in July 1998, just as the they start to expire.
Motoring organisations blamed the Government for the fiasco and said 'most' drivers believed their licences were for life.
Enlarge
A mock-up driving licence from 1998 when the photocards were launched shows the imminent expiry date as item '4b'
They said officials had failed to publicise sufficiently the fact that new-style licences - unlike the old paper ones - expire after a set period and have to be renewed.
To rub salt into wounds, drivers will have to a pay £17.50 to renew their card - a charge which critics have condemned as a 'stealth tax' and which will earn the Treasury an estimated £437million over 25 years.
Official DVLA figures reveal that while 16,136 expired this summer, so far only 11,566 drivers have renewed, leaving 4,570 outstanding.
With another 300,000 photocard licences due to expire over the coming year, experts fear the number of invalid licences will soar, putting thousands more drivers in breach of the law and at risk of a fine.
At the heart of the confusion is the small print on the tiny credit-card-size photo licence, which is used in conjunction with the paper version.
Just below the driver name on the front of the photocard licence is a series of dates and details - each one numbered.
Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means..
The date's significance is only explained if the driver turns over the card and reads the key on the back which states that '4b' means 'licence valid to'.
Even more confusingly, an adjacent table on the rear of the card sets out how long the driver is registered to hold a licence - that is until his or her 70th birthday.
A total of 25million new-style licences have been issued but - motoring experts say - drivers were never sufficiently warned they would expire after 10 years.
Motorists who fail to renew their licences in time are allowed to continue driving. But the DVLA says they could be charged with 'failing to surrender their licence', an offence carrying a £1,000 fine.
AA president, Edmund King said: 'It is not generally known that photocard licences expire: there appears to be a lack of information that people will have to renew these licences.
'People think they have already paid them for once over and that is it.
'It will come as a surprise to motorists and a shock that they have to pay an extra £17.50.'
The AA called on the Government to use the annual £450million from traffic enforcement fines to offset the renewal charge.
Before photocard licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70.
'Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones.'
Driving instructor Tony Carter, of Canterbury, said: 'It's outrageous; everybody thinks their driving licence is for life.
'Why - when you have already paid £50 for your photocard licence - should you pay the Government an extra £17.50 every 10 years?
'It's another stealth tax. Drivers will be very annoyed.'
Today the DVLA said the date of expiry was carried on the new-style licences, even though the AA says this is 'not clear'.

NattyBoy
20-01-2009, 08:33 AM
The Agency was unable to say whether motorists were told the licences would expire when they were first issued.
It said it was issuing postal reminders to drivers whose photograph was due to expire, to get the renewal message across. But a spokesman admitted this was the limit of the DVLA's publicity.
Experts say many drivers will slip through the net because DVLA records are inaccurate and many motorists have changed address, making it impossible to trace them.
A DVLA spokesman said: 'Previous experience has shown that wide-scale publicity is less effective and can generate enquiries and concerns from those not affected. Instead, DVLA focussed on targeted publicity to ensure that we got the message to the right person at the right time..'
The Driving Standards Agency is allowing L-test candidates with out-of-date photocard licences to sit their driving tests as long as they provide a valid passport. This concession will end in January next year, raising the prospect that some L-test candidates will be turned away.
The DVLA said no one had so far been charged with failing to surrender a licence.

Capo
20-01-2009, 09:14 AM
I'll stick with the paper one thanks.

gremlin
20-01-2009, 02:09 PM
I must admit I had realised but no doubt I'll not remember in ten years time! How many people check their licence unless they get stopped for something? I guess when you renew you'll have to supply DNA, fingerprints, iris print et al and thus the government will have its ID card via the back door. I don't know how you'd stand if taken to court, ignorance isn't an excuse usually but I guess if no information has been given to inform you I doubt many people would have noticed. I didn't get a notice saying it was only a ten year one when I got mine last year. I suppose it brings it in line with passports and I guess it's all because of the photo having to be kept up to date. They really are conniving money grabbing wotsits!

Capo
20-01-2009, 02:30 PM
The time is not far off when 'enforcers' will be equiped with devices to determine your DNA on the spot.

Bodybag
20-01-2009, 02:34 PM
Was it passed into law that they'd expire and that the government will charge every 10 years? If not, I reckon the government would find it unenforceable?! I'm sure somebody will be along to add some information to this but thats the way I see it.

SazzaG
20-01-2009, 04:03 PM
The time is not far off when 'enforcers' will be equiped with devices to determine your DNA on the spot.

Don't panic - that kind of technology is way off!

Thanks for pointing this out Natty. Mine expires next year (mutter mutter). What's really annoying is that I changed mine in 2006 when I got married, but because you don't have to pay for a name change, the expiry date of the old one was carried over. Grrrr.

gremlin
20-01-2009, 05:26 PM
Was it passed into law that they'd expire and that the government will charge every 10 years? If not, I reckon the government would find it unenforceable?! I'm sure somebody will be along to add some information to this but thats the way I see it.

I'm sure there's something in the freedom of information act that can tell you, but there've been so many things sneaked in that we can get done for it's probably a needle in a haystack job and who has the money to challenge it if needed. Like so many things these days most people just pay up because they don't realise they could have got away with it and can't afford the barrister to challenge it.
It would be nice to think that whoever gets in next would go through all these useless laws and general money grabbing legislation and throw them out but I guess MPs aren't paid to do that sort of thing.
Just found this http://www.yourdrivinglicence.co.uk/what-happens-if-driving-licence-has-expired.html
It's a bit much when it's free for points etc but not if it's expired.

rollo22
20-01-2009, 05:36 PM
I think iam one of the lucky ones my employer will pay the renewal fee and send out a timely reminder.

We have a few thousand drivers with LGV'S and they cant afford the hit on there "O" license .

BluprintZ
20-01-2009, 05:41 PM
What worries me, is the situation a while back when you sent your licence in for a change of address, or to have points removed etc, then the licence came back with certain entitlements removed.
I was talking with a mate from Bradford not long ago, where he had lost both his PSV and Motorcycle entitlements, when he asked them why, they said that they had no record of him ever passing any of those tests!!
Another cock-up that has cost another person to lose their job, he used to drive the school bus.

G. :worried:

Capo
20-01-2009, 07:29 PM
What worries me, is the situation a while back when you sent your licence in for a change of address, or to have points removed etc, then the licence came back with certain entitlements removed.
I was talking with a mate from Bradford not long ago, where he had lost both his PSV and Motorcycle entitlements, when he asked them why, they said that they had no record of him ever passing any of those tests!!
Another cock-up that has cost another person to lose their job, he used to drive the school bus.

G. :worried:

I heard of this happening to a motorcycle policeman who despite being able to provide proof from the force, was forced to take his test again.

There is a culture of arrogance at the DVLA

Trent
20-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Doh... Mine expires next year as well...

I just renewed my NZ Passport - Cost £75 and is only valid for 5 years...

What worries me, is the situation a while back when you sent your licence in for a change of address, or to have points removed etc, then the licence came back with certain entitlements removed.

Funnily enough, a friend of mine recently sent his license in when he moved house - when it came back he was entitled to drive everything - forklifts, motorcycles, HGVs, PSVs - the whole shebang...

Scary, since he has only ever passed his car license! :eek:

bigredduke
20-01-2009, 08:04 PM
What worries me, is the situation a while back when you sent your licence in for a change of address, or to have points removed etc, then the licence came back with certain entitlements removed.
I was talking with a mate from Bradford not long ago, where he had lost both his PSV and Motorcycle entitlements, when he asked them why, they said that they had no record of him ever passing any of those tests!!
Another cock-up that has cost another person to lose their job, he used to drive the school bus.

G. :worried:

The moral of the story is photocopy everything before you send to a government agency or department and send it registered post. They are very good at losing personal data.:grump:

gremlin
20-01-2009, 08:49 PM
I did bit of a search and found the Road traffic act sections 87 and 88 neither said anything about it. It said you are entitiled to drive for as long as the entitlement on your licence but nothing about photocard ones. It could be another one of these we'll fine you but it's not really enforcable ones. Check it out in case I've missed anything we all know how divvy I can be!