M1100 v HM1100 v s4r v s2r1000 [Archive] - UK Monster Owners Club Forum

Albie

06-10-2008, 07:51 PM

Been thinking a lot about this M1100 and its starting to bite my brain as in want one next year.
Thing that gets me is the price and in some respects its reasonable compared to the Hyper which in its 1100s form has not so good front forks as the m1100 for the same price. Its Marzocchi versus Ohlins on front and Ohlins on both rears, but the Hyper has 5hp less according to Ducati. Both are the same price.
M1100 S £9250 95hp
HM1100 S £9250 90hp

Heres the bad bit .
S4r998 £8250 and 130hp and very reasonable suspension
s4rs £9750 and the same 130hp and full ohlins

S2r1000 £7000 and 95hp for 100cc less and adjustable suspension

So it seems that the Ohlins is the £1500 extra on all. It seems poor on power for £500 more you can get another 35hp. I really expected at least 100hp from the 1100 but maybe they will find it or they will sell you the cans that can get it for £1000.

So can I make the decision to sell 2 100hp bikes for a brand new 95hp.

So the decision is standard or S. What would you go for

dlloyduk

06-10-2008, 07:58 PM

Naked 1098 rumoured to be on the cards at Milan 1098 160BHP-sorted.

Albie

06-10-2008, 08:14 PM

price will be way too much for me. I trying to downsize but upgrade you see. Im impressed its only 6hp less than my 916 s4. Was hoping they would squeeze a smidge more. Getting rid of the rad for me but want hp for 2 up riding 95% of trips.

Just hope the job and credit crunch dont hit me again like it is some others now. Fingers crossed .

squiffything

06-10-2008, 08:19 PM

HM S no contest. It's not about the power it's all about the grin factor. Even with less power I still think the HM would be hard to beat in the twisties by any of the others and at the end of the day how often would you need/use the power on the open road

JMo

06-10-2008, 08:22 PM

Snips

06-10-2008, 08:35 PM

Funny you should ask - this same thought process has got me hankering after an 848.

Well, it was Benson who put the thought in my head. Her. She did it. Not me.

I'm too suggestible.

desmo

06-10-2008, 08:39 PM

As everyone has said, forget the figures, nobody can use their bike to anywhere near it's petential on the road if they value their licence / life.
Just buy the bike that feels the best to ride & makes your jaw drop to look at.

I was in a delema last year when the 696+ was launched, Roz wanted the 696 & I knew an 1100 version wouldn't be far behind & I was in the market for 2 brand new bikes.
I wondered if I should wait for it or go ahead & buy the 696+ & an S2R1000.
In the end, I managed to twist the dealers arm for a substantial discount on the S2R1000, so in the end it was a no brainer for me.
I still love the looks of the S2R1000 & honestly don't know if I would have prefered the new Monster 1100 or not.

slob

06-10-2008, 08:52 PM

If you're prepared to accept a non-monster option like the Hyper'

http://www.desmotimes.com/Images/Sport_Classic_1000/sport_classic_1000_1.jpg

but with more bits removed

Albie

06-10-2008, 08:59 PM

Albie - forget the figures, or even the specs - just buy the one that makes you go 'phwoor' the most...

Realworld performance of any of those bikes is awesome - and the whole Ohlins debate is surely academic for 90% of the riding you do?

Personally, having ridden a Hypermotard and 696 - for me the combination of both would be the ideal - therefore, the M1100...

xxx
Yeah know what you mean. Its the bling thing of those gold forks thats tempting me. I have not bought a brand new bike since I was 17 and it may be my last as Im very happy with Ducati monsters. I guess at the end of the day it will be if I have enough pennies to afford extra at the time.

I realise I wont reach its potential just like the s4 but having is better than wanting.

Albie

06-10-2008, 09:01 PM

If you're prepared to accept a non-monster option like the Hyper'

http://www.desmotimes.com/Images/Sport_Classic_1000/sport_classic_1000_1.jpg

but with more bits removed

Caroline wants to know where she sits :eek::eek:

slob

06-10-2008, 09:09 PM

Hhhmmm, I see her point in you case... I don't have your 748 lurking, so I was thinking more Monster thou for two-up and something a bit more singleseaty but aircooled for scratching and trackdays. If I can survive riding the thing for more than 20 miles, I don't think I'd survive a 748 for very long.
I loved the Hyper S that I rode, 10% bigger than my 1000 and still smoother (I asked DUK if I could buy just a motor but they said "No, sorry.") I'd rather have clip-ons and rearsets.

Albie

06-10-2008, 09:34 PM

Must be some binned Hyper M's by now

Dave G

06-10-2008, 09:44 PM

It would have to be the S2R100 for that money.
Either that take the advice of the sagely Slob and then uprate the suspension on a SC1000 (there is a pillion lurking under that cowl,and by all accounts a comfy one too), it'll still be cheaper than those other new options.

Kato

07-10-2008, 08:39 AM

Albie,
Its an easy dilema to solve, get yourself a thou motor and rebuild it as 1100 do not chuck cash at a new monster as they look SH1-T, think of the money you'd need to spend to completely change the rear end, get ride of that silly tank & headlight, Oh and after that you are still left with a crap looking frame........

walpole68

07-10-2008, 09:20 AM

Karl S2R

07-10-2008, 10:47 AM

I would think anybody in the market for a new bike in the current financial climate is in a strong bargaining position anyway, so the s models might be within reach.

scrapps

07-10-2008, 10:58 AM

I am having the same problems with choosing a new bike or not !:banghead:
I like the 696 and to be honest its prob enough bike for me,but i wanted to wait and see what the 1100 was like. as albie has shown its a bit high in price (for peeps on a budget) so a S2R100 would be better value,that said a am not over keen on its looks.:cens:
so I will just give the old 900ie a make over and wait till the m1100 are avil second hand or maybe settle for a 696 as only 15 bhp down on the 1100.

J.P

07-10-2008, 11:49 AM

scrapps

07-10-2008, 12:20 PM

Aldi mate if your not going to take your bike to the track do you need to spend the extra on the s model ? the standard will do for road use.
Gadget and me find even our monster darks with the cheapest of bits can hold there own on a trackdays. so as jmo said go with the one that makes you go phwooor :thumbsup:

Kato

07-10-2008, 12:21 PM

Try and buy new front and rear Ohlins £1,500 and you will see its quite a bargain price.

slob

07-10-2008, 12:46 PM

Try and buy new front and rear Ohlins £1,500 and you will see its quite a bargain price.

They are 'budget Ohlins' but I still think it's reasonable value for what you get.

phlyfifer

07-10-2008, 02:00 PM

check out the "more rumours of a naked etc" thread on Duc up Noth forum and Gizmos' recent post on the topic.

the price/value debate goes on !

JerryXt

07-10-2008, 02:00 PM

well i think the old one looks old and the range needed some new life injected into it,but i dont go saying the older monster look sh1t ! All monsters have there own charm and thats what makes us all love them.

Indeed - even Kato has his own charm and his missus loves him :D

When the Hyperetard came out, I thought the S version was a bit steep over the base. The same seems to be true with the 1100, but you pays your money...

Albie, clearly you'll buy what is right for you, but I'm with JP on this - it's about bhp and no way is a aircooled 2v lump going to outperform a watercooled 4v motor without significant investment. Scrapps has a very good point about power, right up to the exit of Surtees, where his argument loses a little :chuckle:

If I were you, I'd go and look for a nice s4rs - tricolore or white - for about 6k and love it like a mother would. You'll save thousands and it will pay you back in spades.

squiffything

07-10-2008, 02:37 PM

I don't think the differnce between the new Monnie and the S model is as great as the Hypers. You paid/pay extra for upgraded front forks, Olins adjustable rear shock, lighter alloy wheels, monoblock brake calipers, the Ducati Data Anyliser and a shed load more carbon than comes with the standard. When added together the cost of adding these to the standard bike would be in the region of 3 to 4k. With the monnie it doesn't seem to be anything like as much yet will no doubt be the same sort of difference between the bike costs.

OK that said will I ever use the DDA or need to adjust the suspension for my light slim svelt like frame I doubt it but I do notice the lightness in the steering the fantastic brakes the superb handling and if this is because of the upgrades from the standard to the S then it's all worth it.

scrapps

07-10-2008, 03:08 PM

Indeed - even Kato has his own charm and his missus loves him :D

When the Hyperetard came out, I thought the S version was a bit steep over the base. The same seems to be true with the 1100, but you pays your money...

Albie, clearly you'll buy what is right for you, but I'm with JP on this - it's about bhp and no way is a aircooled 2v lump going to outperform a watercooled 4v motor without significant investment. Scrapps has a very good point about power, right up to the exit of Surtees, where his argument loses a little :chuckle:

If I were you, I'd go and look for a nice s4rs - tricolore or white - for about 6k and love it like a mother would. You'll save thousands and it will pay you back in spades.

Jerry I did not comment on power just that albie will prob never trackday the bike so would he miss the olins...(more than £1500 for bling)
He may miss the bhp but thats the same on both models isnt it.....

Albie

07-10-2008, 03:46 PM

Right Albs, here's my two-penny's worth. And we can discuss more at the Cafe on Sunday.

I'm about the horsepower. The new M1100 just hasn't enough for me and if you do buy it you'll never be able to race me to see who's faster ! :)
Of course you can't use the full potential on the road, but you know what, I've done 6 trackdays on mine and you can bloody well use it there.

As for the Ohlin's versions of any bike, I'm told they are fantastic but an extra £1,500 for them and a few bits adds nearly 20% to the cost of the bike, which always seemed a bit rich to me.

As suggested here an older S2R1000 that you could really play around with would make sense or an S4R Testastretta would easily be in your budget now.
Or really hold on another year to see what the Naked 1098 is like.
I would never be able to beat you lets face facts. 916 vs 998 is no no. 100hp is enough for me. I dont know if I would trackday it. Probably yes but my trackdays I just enjoy the track and not the speed. Im too amateur. I want a nice looking bike that does what I want when I want and a Wow factor. I have a great bike in the s4 and is all I need to be truthful but if I change it will be a 2 valver.

J.P

07-10-2008, 03:49 PM

Don't forget Albie, if you even think about getting a Hyper1100, we'd have to disown you.

Albie

07-10-2008, 03:59 PM

As much as they are cool and fun and a bit Naughty my Monster Days will NOT be going anywhere. I just love them/it.

JMo

07-10-2008, 04:02 PM

If I were you, I'd go and look for a nice s4rs - tricolore or white - for about 6k and love it like a mother would. You'll save thousands and it will pay you back in spades.

Ah, but don't forget that is essentially what he's got already (less a few BHP) - a single sided S4 in white... I'd be wondering were my £6K went?!

As Albie says, he wants to lose the plumbing on his next bike... I'd hope to get an M1100 (not the S) for a lot closer to £7000?

xxx

JerryXt

07-10-2008, 05:13 PM

...but the last of the breed... The S2R1000 and S4Rs are the last of the aircooled and watercooled 'classic' monsters. Ducati aren't producing watercooled anymore, so they are likely to become 'interesting'.

leslie_dash

07-10-2008, 06:08 PM

I agree with Jerry, find yourself a used S4RS or S4R Testastretta, more power for your money!!

slob

07-10-2008, 06:17 PM

as long as you don't mind carrying 25kg of water and plumbing everywhere

JerryXt

07-10-2008, 06:36 PM

I think a lot of us carry excess water and stuff around with us, and not just on the bike :chuckle:

Capo

07-10-2008, 08:00 PM

Hope your not thinking about getting a loan from the bank :chuckle:

slob

07-10-2008, 08:10 PM

Hope your not thinking about getting a loan from the bank :chuckle:

I was thinking about buying a desmosedici, it seems a better investment than a bank at the moment...

johnsy

07-10-2008, 08:17 PM

I know what you mean ref the new 1100, i've a 2000 m900 and it lacks power after spending a lot of years on higher powered machines, but i can't bear the thought of not haveing a monster. Love the twin sided exhausts, love the look of the new monster, but i think i'd have to opt for the s4r, it's a power/style thing, and i'm afraid the new monster just hasn't got the power. Sorry

mholc123

07-10-2008, 09:23 PM

Got to put my two penneth (or half penneth due to the credit crunch) in here, I love the looks of the new monster, but would not like to be left behind by my Triumph Speed Triple riding mates, so for now I'll have to stay with my S4R and my 113Bhp. I know its only 18Bhp more but whilst chasing triumphs it all counts !

singletrack

08-10-2008, 07:58 AM

Albie, the new Monster looks to be a lovely bike - even though it is not to everyone's taste.
The 1100 engine is fantastic - easy to ride, air cooled and smooth.
Go for the Monster 1100 if that's the one you like - it has plenty of power for most people. I would never use all the power of a Hypermotard ( but then I do "ride it like a girl" :o)

As for a standard bike or an 1100 S - there is a lot more value for money if you get the S model - the only people I know who have bought standard versions of the Hypermotard have spent nearly as much money on extras as it would have cost to upgrade to an S - then they haven't had the benefit of the Ohlins suspension.

Also, if you are carrying pillion, doesn't it make sense to have the best , most adaptable suspension you can get?
So that means you have to get the Monster 1100 S :biggrin:

scrapps

08-10-2008, 12:29 PM

Maybe just keep your s4 and the 748......and use the money you save to take the 748 on a few trackdays.:flag:

walpole68

08-10-2008, 12:48 PM

M1100S £9250 + Termi full system £1500 +few more bits of bling £500=£11250 sorry but thats a lot of dosh for a Monster with 95bhp ! Standard model £7700 + cheaper termi cans £800 = £8500 still a lot but better value as a road bike.If you want a track bike buy a 848 which is quicker any way.

Albie

08-10-2008, 06:06 PM

Well I really think I only want one bike now. I have a choice of biding my time which is a bonus. Keep s4 and sell 748 sometime next year and use money for bigger bling or do what I really want to do and buy a brand new 2 valve big cc Monster. I would be well happy with a standard one. I may think about keeping my termis and get them modded for fitment on an 1100.

Thats it plenty of time to think over winter and see what the life situation is like.

I appreciate all your comments BTW and they are all taken on board. :ukm:

slob

08-10-2008, 06:22 PM

I'm constantly amazed by people saying they 'need' 120+ BHP to keep up with xyz.
Horsepower may sell bikes but torque wins races.
S2R: 178kg/95HP, 94Nm@6000RPM
S4RS:177Kg/130HP, 103Nm@7500RPM (I'm genuinely surprised it's lighter the the 2 valver)
so you get 8% less torque but you get it 1500RPM lower down!

gary tompkins

08-10-2008, 11:04 PM

http://www.desmotimes.com/Images/Sport_Classic_1000/sport_classic_1000_1.jpg
Caroline wants to know where she sits :eek::eek:

On the sofa at home? :chuckle:

Bueller77

09-10-2008, 12:06 PM

sadbiker

09-10-2008, 12:52 PM

To be perfectly honest I think that a £700 rise just for the base model may stop a few people from moving over to it.

At the moment there are a few other naked bikes on the market at basically £7K, thats the list price before any discount has been agreed.

The S2R1000 was £7K, so was at a even playing field with other manufacturers.

The new monster is hitting the market at a high price when money is not getting shared around as much, plus the so called "S"model to me is a silly price compared to what else is around for that price.

Just remember that the higher the price paid for these models the more money will be lost as soon as its through the door. And if the recession does have a kick back its going to hit resale values of nearly new bikes very quickly if peope need to offload due to financial reasons.

I would have been interested at taking out the new Monster for a test ride if it had been available when I decided to change the S2R1000, but wouldn't have bought at these prices. I bought my S2R1000 in 06 as I thought at the time the price with equipment wasn't to bad compared to what else was around at the time.

Now we have the FZ1, CB1000R, Triple, Street Triple, Street triple R, Shiver, Z1000 and more to mention.

CK & AK

09-10-2008, 01:05 PM

I'm constantly amazed by people saying they 'need' 120+ BHP to keep up with xyz.

...and our 2 x M800's putting out just under 80 bhp are regularly trouncing KTM990R's on the race track:D

Its all in how the rider uses it. I dont think there is anyone here in the top .3% who can & does use the FULL range of their bike on the road?

I had my M1000sie for 4.5 years which followed on from the M750ie for 2 years, & have now been riding the M696 since beginning of May - and I have far MORE fun in actually 'riding' my bike again by thinking ahead, using the gear box and tucking her in on tight bends...........

C:)

Albie

09-10-2008, 09:15 PM

...and our 2 x M800's putting out just under 80 bhp are regularly trouncing KTM990R's on the race track:D

Its all in how the rider uses it. I dont think there is anyone here in the top .3% who can & does use the FULL range of their bike on the road?

I had my M1000sie for 4.5 years which followed on from the M750ie for 2 years, & have now been riding the M696 since beginning of May - and I have far MORE fun in actually 'riding' my bike again by thinking ahead, using the gear box and tucking her in on tight bends...........

C:)

Im happy to have 95hp.Its 5hp more than my astra 1.3ctdi estate :p:p:p:thumbsup:
I will only use the power to transport 2 of us comfortably and safely. At the moment I have 101 but less 10mph top end as cannot use even 140mph.