Clutchless upshifts

[YellaMonsta]

So here I am learning to be at one with my Ducati. As many of you know I am new rider. I had the fortune of being presented with an empty 3 lane motorway section, which I though would be the perfect oppertunity to ride the little 600 hard throught he gears.

Anyway i found that when I change gear i close the throttle a fair bit to stop the bike screaming between the point I change up and release the clutch. Well my changes arn't so smooth and although I have nailed it a few times getting more of a seemless shift its not all that regular. II still get the little scream as I pull the clutch in, I just need more miles I guess.

Saying all that I tried upshifting without using the clutch.. just get the speed up to where I wanted to change gear, dip the throttle gentle pressure on the up shift and... another perfect up shift. Also it takes less time, fractionally but seems swift.

As a newbie should I still be using the clutch for th upshifts or is it fine to do Clutchless when pressing on?

[J.P]

Clutchless upshifts work fine when you're pressing hard, what you might find though until you really perfect it, is that it's all down to perfecting the timing. Right wrist, left foot.
You may find they'll be one gear it doesn't like and won't go 'in' at which point you've just jammed the throttle shut, tried to change gear, failed, and have wrenched open the throttle again in the same gear before you've realized. Try not to do that too often.
You'll probably find you're best to do it from second gear upwards rather than from first, my bikes have been more troublesome trying to do it from first gear.

And in general terms you will probably find you only do it occasionally because you need a straight bit of road and within 10 seconds you're going very, very, fast and you've banged your way up enough gears.

Best not try 'clutchless' on the way down the gearbox though.

[Paranoid Dave]

Keep going, its easy and rides so much better. I only have two words of advice.
1 only do it when you intend to power well into the next gear, if i'm just changing up due to speed in traffic or similar i use the clutch. Save the clutchless for continued acceleration.
2 You said in your post "dip the throttle gentle pressure on the up shift". The way i was taught was to do the foot first, if you have the revs right it wont select gear, just hold it in the gear change position THEN roll off a fraction and as you do the gear will click into place as your foot is already pushing.

[scrapps]

As the others say nowt wrong with clutchless gear changes up thru the gears,eps good if you are pulling hard thru the gears.not worth it if in traffic or just ploding along.

[J.P]

And actually Scrapps, I think you were the first person ever to tell me that a clutchless upshift was actually possible. I was always thinking, 'a bike is like a car gearbox, you must use the clutch. '

[gary tompkins]

Just miss-read the thread title as "crutchless upshirts"

Maybe it was just wishful thinking? :biggrin:

[YellaMonsta]

Thanks guys.. yes all good information. I found the bike really needs to press on and requires more finesse when shifting into 5th clutchless. Still I'll perfect my regular riding clutch motion and also practice some clutchless shifts when hauling on.

I really need to put more miles under my wheels. I keep looking at adverts for S2's and must stop myself. I need to master the 600 before moving on.

[steeevvvooo]

I tried the resting-pressure-on-the-lever-and-rolling-off method tonight on the way home!! :biggrin:

Again, coming from a car driver, is this not wearing the gearbox? If not, does the fact that you don't use the clutch mean that won't wear as quickly?! If that's right, double bonus :yoparty:

[gremlin]

And actually Scrapps, I think you were the first person ever to tell me that a clutchless upshift was actually possible. I was always thinking, 'a bike is like a car gearbox, you must use the clutch. '


thats what i thought, until the clutch cable snapped on my car in streatham high street in rush hour. phoned my old man for a tow, but he wouldnt come out to help, so it was start the car in gear and just go, clutchless shift, and then stall it at the next hold up. all the way back to surbiton .:grump::grump:
if you get the trottle right, no problems. just dont down shift.

Mr G

[YellaMonsta]

Many race car drivers don't use the clutch either, there is a technique to match gearbox and engine speeds to make the smooth change from one gear to the next. I'm not just talking about heel and toe downshifts either.

I have driven a couple of cars with out using the clutch, so it can be done. Also its not damaging as long you have the right technique.

[crust]

before getting into clutchless shifts maybe you should take off the lefthand side casing off your monster and have a look at a Ducati shift linkage

you think you can match the revs so that the gears slip in easy but I'd put money on that being nigh on impossible

to be able to exactly match drive gears to driven gears in each ratio is a hell of a skill when they are revolving at thousands of revs a minute

what is happening is the gear dogs are taking the shocks, you're just not hearing the gnashing of the teeth

its your gear box

:)crust

[gremlin]

its easier than that, whilse driving along, (in any gear above second) lift your foot and put steady pressure on the gear lever(no sudden jerks) and hold your foot there, the moment you ease off the throttle (very slightly just to un-mesh gears), the next gear will engage. no grinding, just a perfectly smooth change, then gas it and repeat till you've reached the top of the box.
(this is how i nearly always change gear whilst i ride the missus's monnie , but dont tell her please )

Mr G

[YellaMonsta]

you think you can match the revs so that the gears slip in easy but I'd put money on that being nigh on impossible



Its not impossible and I have done it many times with no grinding.

I rev match when i drive my car and so the same when downshifting the bike... although I use the clutch.

Rev matching going up is pretty easy when your pressing on. try it, you might like it.

[scrapps]

I have used clutchless changes on my bikes for the last 20 years and 7-8 bikes. I have never had a gearbox problem and this year will be the first ever clucth I have had to change on a bike(1st clutch on my monnie 900ie at 24000 miles) I now do it with out thinking....:eyepopping:
and yes the plates are noisey but still dont slip,i just want less noise.
I also rode my gsxr750 for ten years and 60000miles and no problems with gearbox or clutch.
Maybe I am just lucky ?

[albs]

cant remember the last time I used the clutch while upshifting on a bike,even when riding slowly.
as already said,shifting up or down in a car is usually pretty easy with a bit of practice. wouldnt ever do it whenshifting down on a bike though,back wheel lock up and quickly knackered gearbox the likely outcome.