A sad day for me at Cadwell Park yesterday.

[J.P]

A sad day because of the realization that I'm not going to be like Valentino Rossi, Casey Stoner or James Toseland anytime soon. Boo hoo.
Try as I might to throw myself into and around the corners I'm just not quick enough or brave enough to give it that extra 10% that'll make me faster.
I've done loads and loads of trackdays now, 11 I think also loads of road training & levels 1,2 & 3 of the California Superbike School this year and my riding has improved I think, but I want more, I just don't seem able to get more.
I put it down to two things,
1) My recent crash at Rockingham having dented my cornering confidence.
2) Confidence in my tyre's. Though the Michelin 2CT tyre's I am using were absolutely excellent yesterday. But my fear is that the gap between sticking in a corner and letting go isn't that big a gap and I don't want to crash.

What am I to do ?

[neilbaldry]

I'd say buying a track bike is only good if your going to use it alot, as its alot of money to invest in something. So if your going to keep up with the 11 odd trackdays a year, then it could be a sound investment.

The thing with the crash, is its going to take a little while to get your confidence up, no matter what you will be riding. I find its not a bad thing to have a bit of fear. It can stop you doing silly things sometimes.

And finally, if you want to be like Rossi, Stoner et al, get yourself a racing licence and join a series!

[CK & AK]

Once you get really 'into it' you can often be held back by riding your 'one & only' beloved bike. Its that subconscious feeling of 'what if' - whatever most will actually say about it tho.

I'd suggest you get a smaller cc'd trackbike - which will teach you so much more about carrying cornerspeed etc. After all - most people on track can squirt well down the straights, but not many can carry good cornerspeed.
As you'll know, its not all about raw power.

An 'off' can make you feel a tad apprehensive out there too and it can take a while to shake that off. Pop back to a track you KNOW really well & shake it off mate.

Our old 583 (51 bhp) taught Bones a lot about cornering, which he is being now able to put to good use on the 79bhp M800 - and holding his own & more against the KTM990R's - particularly on the corners, by being able to zip under them. He'd not set foot on a track (ever!) till early 2006 & ended up 3rd in last years class B in DD on our 583 & is now sitting equal 6th in this years Junior Powerbike class out of more than 42 in there.

Pop over for a natter sometime JP.

C:)

[J.P]

Thanks a lot for you kind words Charlotte. You've hit the nail on the head there.
Maybe I'll keep a look out for a used DD bike at the end of the season.

I just need to sneek a 3rd bike into the back garden without the wife noticing.

[CK & AK]

Not even necessarily a DD bike JP, but any aircooled up to a 900 (though an ie would be best, but not cheapest to buy)
This would keep servicing costs down for you - and repair bills too.
I say maybe a bit bigger than 583 as I think you would really miss the hp to start with. Worth asking to blag a ride on one tho first?

Mind you - SV's are pretty cheap to buy if you didnt mind changing brand - spares are 2 a penny too.

You can always add all the goodies to one of these - fairings (for gravel protection & air movement) uprate the suspension front & rear - add the clip-ons & rear sets - & remove all road going stuff.
Re-fit a race-type seat so you can move about more.
Even now, we could put one of our 2 back on the road with maybe an evening or 2 work to it, by just stripping stuff off & re-fitting road going gear.

C :)

[fatbloke]

as soon as its no longer fun give it up whatever it is

[scrapps]

Hi jp as you know from trackday we have been on in the past I am not very fast and prob for the same reasons as you...ie it looks painfully that falling off and not wanting to damage the road bike.
I have now got the ss sorted and will be taking it to trackdays to use it as a trackday bike to slowly sort for trackday abuse (shame it looks so nice now and i feel sad to track her).
I hope that doing this I may push that bit harder and get a bit faster.
you did not start riding that long ago and are still a lot faster and more confident around a track than me,so stick at it and maybe get a little track bike.(there is room in my garage if you need to store it and work on it for next summer)

[Black Ferret]

Hi JP,

Sorry to hear about your off. But your confidence will return.

Go for a track bike. I've got a '93 900ss in the garage which I'm looking to put on the track for next season

Steve

[slob]

Just voted, no contest really.
The fact you'll never be the next Rossi/Stoner is a bit obvious really JP, you're way too old already I'm afraid.

[J.P]

You did not start riding that long ago and are still a lot faster and more confident around a track than me,so stick at it and maybe get a little track bike.(there is room in my garage if you need to store it and work on it for next summer)

You're right, maybe I want it all too quickly. I must be part of that 'instant' gratification generation I read about.
And that's a very kind offer of your garage space.

[Gilps]

CK's spot on the money with her comments. I did a couple of trackdays thinking I would be quite quick but soon realised that was not the case. Racing improved my riding immensely but I wouldn't recommend it as a way of improving, unless you actually want to go racing of course.
I've got my little 583SS DD bike from last year which TP's doing rather well on at the moment. I considered putting a 900 lump in for next year as my track bike. I did a TD at Pembrey in June and soon realised that whilst I may be quicker than when I first started out, I'm still not as quick as some of the front running DD guys. Bottom line is that I don't go round corners as quick as others so I figured what do I need more BHP for. I'm only going to arrive at the corner quicker and still have to scrub off the excess speed. A 900 isn't going to go around the corner any quicker with me on board so I'm going to stick with what I've got. A bit more power may help me mix it with the big boys on the straights, but it's such a buzz beating up R1's and Gixxers in the twisties. I reckon an aircooled SS is just about the best cheap track day bike you can put together. It's got some sticky rubber on now which helps with the confidence. I found that after having raced for a year on Diablos then sticky tyres make me feel like Rossi.
I had a couple of offs last year and it really knocked my confidence but stick with it and it will come back. It may help if you go out with friends who are running at a similar level. There's nothing worse than being stuck out there on your own.
I would not obsess too much about tyres or BHP. If the bike is set up right then a more competent rider would get more out of the bike than you can. It's all about what goes on in youur head. You'll find that all it will take is one good TD and you'll be on a high and looking forward to the next one.

[J.P]

Gilps, really appreciate the comments.
Nice to hear if from someone who's made the transition from road to track and gone through the same experiences.

[mad_turnips]

there should be a 4th option - stop whinging and buy a cheap track bike and mod it to within an inch of its life and throw it around without a care

[JerryXt]

stop being such a girl and HARDEN THE F*CK UP MAN!!!!

[JerryXt]

and buy a dedicated track bike that you can throw down the road. +1 on the rubber. I've got to the end of Corsa3s now - they're squirming in the corners. Off to try racetecs now :)

[Dave G]

I bought an NC35 insurance write off to make into a trackbike years ago, though later replaced that with a ex race bike NC30, at that time I didnt want to bend my 916 and that was a good way of indulging my new found interest in track riding. I then started to get faster and more confident, which, perversly, made me slower on the road.(apparantly thats quite common I'm told)
It was only when I moved back to Scotland and we had another child that my regular riding and trackdays stopped.
I'd seriously consider a small trackbike and if you want to learn to carry speed then forget about superbikes etc, get a small engined sportsbike like an RGV, RS250 twostroke or a 400cc four stroke. You know these will be outpowered by bigger bikes on the straight but thats not the fun of it,whizzing past a fireblade on craner curves is my best moment on the NC35 and staying ahead until the long straight to do exactly the same for the next couple of laps on a bike whos engine is half the capacity of the larger bike has got to be as satisfying as it comes.
Unfortunately my opportunities to get out on the road or track have been curtailed in the past few years but hopefully one day I'll get back out regularly again.

[J.P]

The fact you'll never be the next Rossi/Stoner is a bit obvious really JP, you're way too old already I'm afraid.

What? too old ? Moi ?

[Mand]

What? too old ? Moi ?

Bayliss is only a year older than you and he is retiring at the end of the season! :chuckle:

[scrapps]

Bayliss is only a year older than you and he is retiring at the end of the season! :chuckle:

ouch no need to stick the knife in hehehe

that makes me a welllll past it then ?
still it would be nice to pass the youngsters on there r1s on a low cc machine (if i ever get faster)

[Mand]

ouch no need to stick the knife in hehehe



I like to be firm but fair Scraps!

:chuckle:

[Gilps]

Here's one of my fave pics taken by Julie at last years UKMOC track day at Mallory. This guy's mate came up the inside of me in to the hairpin, I gave him loads of room, then this guy followed him in. I stayed out wide, left plenty of space, but the awesome power of the Japanase hyperbike was just too much for him. It still makes me chuckle even now.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u162/Gilps/stuff/MonsterTrackdayJulieHorne2007007.jpg
He was up and about quick enough so no harm done.

[scrapps]

I like to be firm but fair Scraps!

:chuckle:

The only way to be ........

[J.P]

I like to be firm but fair !

:chuckle:

That's why Dave loves you....

Mand & David sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G.

[slob]

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u162/Gilps/stuff/MonsterTrackdayJulieHorne2007007.jpg


I guess I was already in hospital by then, LOL.

[scrapps]

jp I am prob going to brands on the 15th sept and will be taking both bikes (just incase) your welcome to give the 750ss a try if your there,it will be 1st time out for the ss so will still be in road set up but it will give you a idea of what they are like (forgiving I hope).
I hope to see what it needs to be a track tool now I have got it running nice,rearsets I know and will be getting asap but thats the all i know at the moment(ebay this winter looking for cheap bit i guess)

[J.P]

Cool. Can't make the 15th and good luck.
I hope you pass the noise test. Mine only just passed the 105 db level and Cadwell and I know you day will be 102 db as you said.
I loved the fact that everyone I spoke to at Cadwell said they could hear me coming...

[fatbloke]

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u162/Gilps/stuff/MonsterTrackdayJulieHorne2007007.jpg


I guess I was already in hospital by then, LOL.
been there done that
one fat man of his fat arse!
http://www.jedispark.com/images/fat.jpg

[slob]

http://www.jedispark.com/images/fat.jpg[/QUOTE]

That's a very 'slimming' camera angle Terry

[Mand]

That's why Dave loves you....

Mand & David sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G.

:chuckle: nice!

Have you done Oulton Park yet JP? Suppose to be a good trackday.

[J.P]

Unfortunately my schedule this year didn't give me the chance.
There's always next year Mand .....

[JerryXt]

I've had the offer of trackside assistance at the trackday next week. Mike Dawson (MD Racing - leading DD I believe) is going to bring little asbo over for me and be my pit crew for the day. We're going to crawl over the suspension settings to get them right, change the head angles and ride height, do the swingarm position - get it all setup correctly. Clearly if asbo gets upset, he'll be on hand to look at any reliability issues too.

If it's successful, I might use him for the hottrax event too. If you're going, it should be good value if we're sharing the cost. Rather than just hooning around the track, we'd hoon around and get ongoing value from the day in terms of expert advice, suspension and chassis setup and mechanical backup. Sounds overkill, but if you're not happy with the way the track riding is going, it might help.

For me, every trackday means taking a day off work (== no pay :(), paying for the day, destroying tyres and ragging the a*se off the bike. It's all expense and it's good to know that there's someone there to bounce ideas off and get professional, consistant advice. I was talking to Rob at ProTwins the other day and the way he explained going into a corner at Brno at 160mph make me realise that I was experiencing the same problem at Druids, albeit a lot slower :D Having Mike there at the track will help me get advice when I can benefit from it directly.

And he's offered to let me ride his DD race bike too. That might be useful for you to see what's available as a cheap, dedicated track tool.

[Gilps]

I'm sure you'll find that useful Jerry. Mike and Ant helped with the geometry set up on the 583 DD bike. They're good guys and know their stuff.

[J.P]

You'll be running your own team in no time Jerry.

[JerryXt]

Thanks guys, Ant is going to be doing the geometary map soon. I've just got to get some help describing what's happening with the bike so they can do their stuff :)

[marchesini]

I put it down to two things,
1) My recent crash at Rockingham having dented my cornering confidence.
2) Confidence in my tyre's. Though the Michelin 2CT tyre's I am using were absolutely excellent yesterday. But my fear is that the gap between sticking in a corner and letting go isn't that big a gap and I don't want to crash.

What am I to do ?

I had written a long reply but lost it due to the computer logging me out.

Anyway, what is basically boiled down to is I used to be fast(ish) when I got my track bike but now I'm not. Maybe it because I crashed, maybe it's because I'm old and think too much about the 'what if' - whatever the reason, I am definitely slower than I was (ask Terry or Nat).

I have no confidence in my tyres in corners (even though I use tyre warmers etc), I am sure that I don't open the throttle nearly aggressive/quickly enough in fear of the tyre letting go. I honestly believe that a pillion ride with a racer would cure that in an instant - be a scarey as feck but would give me a real yardstick with which to measure.

Also, people learn at different rates. I have tried for years to do wheelies (even done a couple of wheelie schools) but I still suck. My mate though was doing wheelies, burnouts, stoppies, really long rolling burnouts etc, the lot within two months of passing his test. I think that difference is perhaps I was too respectful (or scared) of the bike whereas he wasn't and just had a go.

One last thing though is even though I still am not very good on the track, I think that one day hanging around the track, 'trying' to go as fast as you like and just the banter with like minded mates is priceless. If nothing else, for a brief respite for the everyday **** that life throws at you on a regular basis. Got to be worth it just for that hasn't it?

Stick at it and I'm sure I'll see you in the kitty litter sometime ;)

Simon

ps. it might just have been that it was Cadwell Park and I hate that track. I know some love it there but for me it's like riding on the road, too narrow, trees, blind corners - I want a race track to look like a racetrack not a road. A proper racetrack is where I can see where I'm going with lots of runoff if I mess up. Just a thought?

[JerryXt]

did Brands Tuesday - fantastic. Mike was really helpful and will be helping me at the next one too. We did suspension and I was able to give him 'good' feedback about what the bike was doing. It was incredible - during each session, I'd store away little things, like on one session I felt the front skip across the tarmac, maybe only half a cm, but it happened twice at different corners, so as soon as I gave him that info, he was all over the front end, checking sag, changing preload and rebound and in the next session it was faultless.

I need more track time to get used to the bike now and maybe get it to turn in a little quicker. We changed the ride height to get a steeper rake on the forks and that's helped it get to the apex more easily, but it's much less comfortable, so maybe some surgery is required to combine both comfort and agility. On the bike, not me - I've been told I'm agile enough.

New tyres were fantastic. Loads of grip and would just do what I asked of them without question. Dementor was riding, Mutters and CK came along to say Hi and coffee was good for once :)

Oh yes, and I had a Playstation moment coming into Druids - a 1098 and I had been mucking about for a session - I'd take him under braking at Druids then after a few laps I'd let my guard down and he'd come back at Clearways or Paddock, then I'd take him into Druids again. Repeat a few times. So (this according to a rider behind) coming into Druids, we were three across the track, me in the middle and the guy on my left, who was going maybe 20mph slower, just 'stopped' and turned in really early. So I'm still doing about 80, braking hard, saw the side of his bike coming up at an incredible rate and squeezed harder on the brakes. The rear came up about 3 feet and he went, but by that point, I was riding a 200kg unicycle and wasn't feeling too confident about the corner, so I let the rear come down and went for the beach. Cut a 3 foot furrow, the bike stopped nicely and threw me over the bars at 2mph. Ow. Sore ribs. No damage to me or the bike and Mike. CK and random kid spent the next half an hour cleaning gravel out of the bike and giving it a wash. No drama, but I felt a bit of a t*t :D

The group I was put in was mixed inters and fast. A bit too fast for me. Felt a bit peed that I was being passed a lot, but took comfort in the fact that there were a lot of racers and people who had been doing track days for ten years or more. I don't think I've done ten yet.

[Mr Cake]

I am sure that I don't open the throttle nearly aggressive/quickly enough in fear of the tyre letting go.

Believe me, its better that way than realising that you have just cracked the throttle open too quickly!

Dave

[J.P]

Maybe we should all by a 1098R and we can crack the throttle open as hard as we like with traction control ?

[Mr Cake]

Does the road bike come with TC???

[J.P]

Does the road bike come with TC???

Is that 'Tender Care' ?

[Mr Cake]

...or Too muCh hype :chuckle: