Modifications for track use?

[Edcase]

I have a 4000 mile 93 M900 which is virtually mint.

Having just done my first trackday, although tempted to dive into an 848, 'motard etc. the more I think about it, it's crazy as a 'novice' to learn on a 9k bike.

Besides that, I only have room for one bike and I love the Monnie and will get more 'general' use and enjoyment out of it than if I had the 848 (although the hypermotard may be fun to own!!)

So...with that in mind I want to make a few mods to maximise my enjoyment without breaking the bank, and I would appreciate some pointers on parts and costs for the following:

Brake upgrade: After trying the 1098 I realised just how bad the old brakes are. What's my best upgrade on a 93 M900? I've heard about a radial brake master cylinder and also dual disc upgrade? Any thoughts on parts and costs?

Carbs: One of my mixture screws is seized in my std carb bodies and is running very rich. Rather than replace with OEM I'd like to upgrade to the Keihin FCR 41's. Anyone done this? Worth the money? What's the main difference (I've read the site but looking for feedback from real owners).

I already have carbon cans.

I think that's it for my needs unless anyone can think of anything obvious I've missed?

thanks
Ed

[JerryXt]

personally, I'd go (in this order)

brakes
suspension
engine

Gadget was dishing it out on a 30,000 mile 600 in the inters. I had to work that 1098 hard to get past. Nick in our pits is a DD racer and was going well in fast on his 600 race bike.

Zimbo should be around soon - he races DD and has had a tuned 900.

HTH.

[Edcase]

Yup brakes are my main concern. Not bother about 'engine' as such but I technically need to replace the carbs because of the fault, so I may as well get the Keihins.

Would be interested to hear the thoughts on the difference suspension will make. Being fairly new to bikes (and light at only 9.5 stone) I don't really understand yet what noticeable performance advantage I'll get from upgrading the suspension.

cheers
Ed

[JerryXt]

well, your bike is not new, so the existing components could probably do with an overhaul anyway, at least an oil change, but for example, getting the correct springs in the forks for your weight and having the suspension set up for your weight is going to keep the front end planted properly.

If the springs are too hard for your weight, the bike will bounce over undulations (long words today). If they're too soft, the bike will pogo under braking. Either way, you won't have the right performance for you.

[NattyBoy]

go with a radial 19 x 18 brembo brake master cylinder, not sure if you have braided lines but they are a must. Decent pad material like performance friction. Ohlins rear and a rework of the front fork internals and finally some high level pipes/rearsets to sort the ground clearance and you will have a perfectly capable track bike.

You may want to consider reworking the gearing too.

I rode ades bike around donnigton which is identical to yours with most of the suggested mods and my lap times were not that much slower than when I was going round on clai's S4 challenge with a slipper clutch !

ive got a new ducati performance carbon race cowl if its of interest (whch you can use with your bikes standard screen)

Good luck and watch out - the track can be a very expensive and addictive place !!

[Edcase]

well, your bike is not new, so the existing components could probably do with an overhaul anyway, at least an oil change, but for example, getting the correct springs in the forks for your weight and having the suspension set up for your weight is going to keep the front end planted properly.

If the springs are too hard for your weight, the bike will bounce over undulations (long words today). If they're too soft, the bike will pogo under braking. Either way, you won't have the right performance for you.

Thanks. Yeah I got the fork oil changed and serviced as it had been dry stored for 12 years. Who / where would I start in terms of getting the right springs etc?

thanks
Ed

[Edcase]

go with a radial 19 x 18 brembo brake master cylinder, not sure if you have braided lines but they are a must. Decent pad material like performance friction. Ohlins rear and a rework of the front fork internals and finally some high level pipes/rearsets to sort the ground clearance and you will have a perfectly capable track bike.

You may want to consider reworking the gearing too.

I rode ades bike around donnigton which is identical to yours with most of the suggested mods and my lap times were not that much slower than when I was going round on clai's S4 challenge with a slipper clutch !

ive got a new ducati performance carbon race cowl if its of interest (whch you can use with your bikes standard screen)

Good luck and watch out - the track can be a very expensive and addictive place !!

Hehe, I only got my knee down for the first time at the weekend, let alone the cans / rearsets :spin:

I'm used to tracking cars, so compared to that it's a bargain! Brake upgrade on my car for example cost 2.2k!!!

Do you have a pic of the cowl? Although TBH I'm keen on keeping the 'look' as standard as possible.

cheers
Ed

[NattyBoy]

here you go mate

[Edcase]

Cheers, yeah it's going to be a road bike first and foremost and I'd rather keep her std looking, but thanks.

Regarding the brakes are we talking about one of these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ducati-racing-Yamaha-Brembo-PR19-x-18-radial-brake-pump_W0QQitemZ190212007102QQihZ009QQcategoryZ10448 QQcmdZViewItem

Also do these do exactly what they say on the tin, I'd heard that they can cause issues?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ducati-racing-clutch-slave-cylinder-1098-Monster-SuSp_W0QQitemZ190212032389QQihZ009QQcategoryZ10448 QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

thanks again
Ed

[JerryXt]

have you got adjustable forks? With more than one bolt on the top? If so, I'd go to speak to Rob at ProTwins - he's done wonders with mine. If not, you nee some forks that have adjustable preload, dampind and rebound. That will allow the tuners to do their thing.

Alternatively, speak to David at solocorse.co.uk - he's got the Wilbers distribution for UK. Alan Knight AK of CK & AK (won DD last year) has put them on his current race bike and is very impressed. They custom build them to your specification (weight and intended use) and a good talk with David will get you the right setup.

[JerryXt]

no, those Brembos m/cs are cool. There are stories of some dodgy ones going round, but that seller is highly recommended.

[Edcase]

have you got adjustable forks? With more than one bolt on the top? If so, I'd go to speak to Rob at ProTwins - he's done wonders with mine. If not, you nee some forks that have adjustable preload, dampind and rebound. That will allow the tuners to do their thing.

Alternatively, speak to David at solocorse.co.uk - he's got the Wilbers distribution for UK. Alan Knight AK of CK & AK (won DD last year) has put them on his current race bike and is very impressed. They custom build them to your specification (weight and intended use) and a good talk with David will get you the right setup.

It's on the original forks for a 93 M900, I would guess non-adjustable but will check at the weekend.

[Albie]

Has it a raised screw in the top. Looks like yours just has a bolt.

[Kato]

Oh now then.....sorry Nat got in first:) I can help you out with fully adjustable forks, radial master and six pot calipers shout if interested.....

[JerryXt]

ah, that would work nicely!

[crust]

I own a modded M900

Brakes:

The standard lines will be crap by now, get some Braided steel lines.

I use HH pads and change the fluid every year.

I like to brake right up to the apex so need feel, I still use the standard M/C

My bike pulls stoppies easily, do you need more?

Forks:

How often do the adjustable fork owners actually adjust theirs?

I fitted Racetech gold valves, springs and oil, the damping and oil are set for my weight - Pedroesque

I have an Ohlins on the rear.

Decent tyres - my preference is Diablo Corsas

That lot mean that my bike is well usable on the road, wet or dry and still holds its own on trackdays.

I have FCR41s fitted.

Well worth it on so many levels. A lot better acceleration, nice throaty induction roar, another five or so miles to the gallon.

On the trip to WDW my bike was consistantly using slightly less fuel than Pedros similar bike with standard carbs.

To take advantage of the changes you'll need rearsets, the standard pipes and pegs are way too low.

I'd recommend raising the rear 10mm to start too speed turn in, then if you're happy with that come down 5mm on the front.

I have a steering damper fitted after a nasty tank slapper that split the fork stop on the headstock.

Other than that a diet of constant abuse seems to keep it happy.

:)crust

[Spike]

I run racetech internals in my forks like Crust but have AP racing sixpots and dics on my bike grate for stoppies.

[slob]

Ade's bike has a lightened flywheel too, around £100 exchange from a place in Germany, Zimbo will tell you where as soon as he arrives on this thread.

[Zimbo]

Brakes - standard m/c, braided hoses, standard discs, Performance Friction pads. Sorted.
Forks - linear springs, (8.5kg for a standard size rider) plus new fork oil - sorted. Crust's racetech cartridges would be better still, of course.
Shock - replacement Wilbers or Nitron unit will set you right.
Engine - FCR41s plus JE 11.1:1 high comp piston kit from Chris Kelly.
Lightweight flywheel from Ducati Kaemna in Germany (I paid £90 delivered, bought not exchanged).
Rearsets and high level cans.
Tyres - another vote for Diablo Corsas.
Gearing - I found 15/41 to be ideal for most circuits.

Good luck!

[NattyBoy]

heres ades bike about to go into battle !!! - with slobs in the background before it fell out with the craner curves :>(

[NattyBoy]

Chasing chris's M900 round...what a great day..I wouldnt have any any riding that day if it hadnt been for this club..my track bike had a strop on and I was lent a 998S, M900 and S4 challenge for some sessions by club members...top drawer stuff :ukm: :biggrin:

[Edcase]

Guys - you rock!

Decided to ditch the motard idea for a year til I get a garage.

Just ordered:

fcr 41's
brembo 19x18 master
goodridge lines
ducati racing clutch slave
open clutch cover

Already have a new set of Corse's

Not so worried about the forks...dare I ask how much for an Ohlins rear?!

Any recommendations on steering damper for an original m900?

Excited now!!!

[slob]

heres ades bike about to go into battle !!! - with slobs in the background before it fell out with the craner curves :>(

Actually that was just after I fell out with Schwantz curve.

ps. Ade's silencers (amplifiers) are so vicious I had to put my visor down when queueing four metres behind him in the paddock, because of the pressure wave hitting my head. One year at Arrow Mill we could hear his bike coming for over five minutes before he came into view.

Ohlins...600 new,250+ second hand (rebuild around 120) Look at Zimbo's list of alternatives. Personally I'd rather have better suspension than better carbs. It's almost always a mistake to go for more power than better brakes/handling. Suspension first, brakes second, engine last... the difference in handling will knock seconds off your laptimes, you cant use the brakes or the power if the tyres aren't on the tarmac!.

[fatbloke]

I've got to agree with slob
Spend money on getting the bike to stop and turn before you worry about going faster.

[NattyBoy]

Actually that was just after I fell out with Schwantz curve.

ps. Ade's silencers (amplifiers) are so vicious I had to put my visor down when queueing four metres behind him in the paddock, because of the pressure wave hitting my head. One year at Arrow Mill we could hear his bike coming for over five minutes before he came into view.

Ohlins...600 new,250+ second hand (rebuild around 120) Look at Zimbo's list of alternatives. Personally I'd rather have better suspension than better carbs. It's almost always a mistake to go for more power than better brakes/handling. Suspension first, brakes second, engine last... the difference in handling will knock seconds off your laptimes, you cant use the brakes or the power if the tyres aren't on the tarmac!.

Natty gets it all arong again :rolleyes: Sorry mate....!

[Edcase]

Guys - appreciate the comments on power / handling, however if you look back at the first post, the carbs are a reactive thing because my current carbs have a stuck mixture screw and would cost a decent percentage of the cost of the flatsides to repair.

Besides, we're not talking an extra 20bhp at the rear wheel are we ;)

I'm doing the front brake at the same time too, and I'm looking into suspension today.

Any recommendations on a steering damper?

thx
Ed

[JerryXt]

Talk to David about steering dampers too. Seriously, Ohlins is great stuff, but I'd look at the Wilbers kit first - they build it for YOU at the factory rather than 100s of bikes and 1000s of riders.

[NattyBoy]

PM about the shock mate..

Guys - you rock!

Decided to ditch the motard idea for a year til I get a garage.

Just ordered:

fcr 41's
brembo 19x18 master
goodridge lines
ducati racing clutch slave
open clutch cover

Already have a new set of Corse's

Not so worried about the forks...dare I ask how much for an Ohlins rear?!

Any recommendations on steering damper for an original m900?

Excited now!!!

[Edcase]

Important Delivery Information


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message from Ca Cycleworks:
22090

Scheduled Delivery: 10-April-2008

Woohoo. Getting excited now. Sadly that's only to our LA office so a good week away yet :(

[craigie]

Brakes - standard m/c, braided hoses, standard discs, Performance Friction pads. Sorted.
Forks - linear springs, (8.5kg for a standard size rider) plus new fork oil - sorted. Crust's racetech cartridges would be better still, of course.
Shock - replacement Wilbers or Nitron unit will set you right.
Engine - FCR41s plus JE 11.1:1 high comp piston kit from Chris Kelly.
Lightweight flywheel from Ducati Kaemna in Germany (I paid £90 delivered, bought not exchanged).
Rearsets and high level cans.
Tyres - another vote for Diablo Corsas.
Gearing - I found 15/41 to be ideal for most circuits.

Good luck!

Hey Zimbo, where do you get your Performance Friction pads? Had a look online and it was all either cars or in the US of A.
Cheers

[slob]

Hey Zimbo, where do you get your Performance Friction pads? Had a look online and it was all either cars or in the US of A.
Cheers

http://www.louigimoto.co.uk/

[Zimbo]

Solo Corse sell them and may give a discount, Louigi Moto, JHP Coventry.
Also try Bendix (Cornerspeed) or Carbon Lorraine SBK3.

[craigie]

Cheers both, for the info and the promptness.

[Edcase]

Ok, carbs are here this friday. Has anybody on here fit these themselves before? Apparently they come all set up and ready so it's just a case of bolting them on. I have all the necessary tools, should it be fairly straightforward???

I also now have one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190213324812&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=009

these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ducati-racing-clutch-slave-cylinder-1098-Monster-SuSp_W0QQitemZ190214813677QQihZ009QQcategoryZ10448 QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

and these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160155624060&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=006

Which I will be having fitted next week.

Very exciting... all thoughts of a hypermotard firmly out of my head......for now!