my bike is starting to annoy me!

[neilbaldry]

ok, fitted the new battery. still not working. its not changed with the new battery. the optimate says the battery is good. but every time i try and start her, i press the starter button, and i hear the injectors squirt, and nothing.

could there be a dodgy connection? is my starter motor fecked? could it be my PCIII?

it starts first time if i jump start it, and it doesnt cut out.

but as im ****e with anything technical............. please help me!

[Capo]

You need to check and clean the battery, solenoid, starter and earth connections.

[reedyboy]

I take it that there is silence when you hit the start button.If so then i doubt very much ya starter is fecked,it's more likely you're not getting any current to it for some reason,or a problem via the solenoid.Like capo says clean all terminals through to starter!!.then check for current to starter with meter or test light....
you could always check inside the starter button clasp on the handlebars for moisture too....a helping of wd40 does the trick normally.I've had bikes where the indicators wouldn't work because of moisture,or slight corrosion if it's sat over the winter months,and it doesn't take much either to feck it all up!!

[crust]

not sure about these new fangled monsters, so bear with me

the starter motor is under the front of the motor

on the clutch side you should see a thick black wire coming up, follow that and you get to the starter solenoid

a brass coloured round thing with two thick black wires coming off it, the one you followed, the other goes off to a big fuse.

there should also be a smaller two pin connector going to the solenoid, sometimes these connectors come out.

check its in

Try to start bike,

if it fires, grin, pat cat, go for ride, drink beers

if it doesn't

WARNING - BIG VOLT/AMPS OUCH POTENTIAL - NOT LETHAL BUT STILL OUCH

Make sure the bike isnt in gear.

gently pull back the two rubber caps of the thick wires

turn the ignition on

then, being carefull and with a big screwdriver with a rubber or wooden handle short the two big wires connectors - ie - make the screwdriver touch both at the same time.

DO NOT LET THE SCREWDRIVER TOUCH ANY OTHER PART OF THE BIKE AT THE SAME TIME AS THE THICK WIRE CONNECTORS

This by passes the starting wiring, it should turn the engine over

if it doesn't, sulk, kick cat, drink beers, post back later

:)crust

[PhilLew]

I had a simmilar problem with mine last week, traced it to a bad earth lead from the battery. I tried cleaning the terminals and re crimpping them but it was still the same, changed the lead for a new one and it starts perfectly now.

I think the cable it's self was corroded inside and so not conducting properly.


Re.
"you could always check inside the starter button clasp on the handlebars for moisture too...." Un-likley to be this if it starts with a jump :)

[reedyboy]

Re.
"you could always check inside the starter button clasp on the handlebars for moisture too...." Un-likley to be this if it starts with a jump :)[/QUOTE]


Sorry i thought Neil bumped it not jumped it!!!....so if your mates battery starts your bike Neil and your battery doesn't then i suggest you buy your buddies battery off him and forget all about checking connections and such like cos it's obviously your battery thats the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..i thought jump starting meant supplying power from a good battery to a not so good battery,but who am i to argue?..hehe

[Capo]

But its a new battery?
You did charge it didn't you neil?

[neilbaldry]

it is a new battery yes. bought it off ebay, and gave it to a mate who works with the battery bay at marham. they confirmed it was already charged.

and Andy, when i say jumped, what i mean is, running leads from my bikes battery(whilst in my bike), to his bikes battery (whilst in his bike), and pressing my starter button.

as an aside, i checked the PCIII with the installation instructions, and all seems to be in the right place.

[gremlin]

it does sound like a dodgy wire, how do you connect the jump leads ? straight to battery or one clamped to earth via another point. stuppppid question, but have you tried holding starter button and wiggling wires ?

[Capo]

This is where you discover that you didn't need a new battery after all.

[neilbaldry]

This is where you discover that you didn't need a new battery after all.


my thoughts exactly...............

when i jump the bike, the croc clamps go directly onto the battery

[Capo]

my thoughts exactly...............

when i jump the bike, the croc clamps go directly onto the battery

Most probably the battery earth connection where it is bolted to the engine.

[stef]

Most probably the battery earth connection where it is bolted to the engine.

how does this work ?
if the bike start with crocs connected direct to the bike's battery.. how does this incriminate the earth lead ? as far as i can see, the earth return is still through the bike's own earth lead...
if the second battery was connected + to battery + and earth to bike engine/frame (thus bypassing the earth wire) then yes, but as far as i understand, it's just a second battery in parrallel with the first one...right ?

[retskcid]

I'm with Stef. If you are jumping directly onto the battery, it must be something to do with the battery.

[neilbaldry]

could it be anything to do with the starter relay? starter motor? or anything to do with the electrics going from the starter button on the handlebar, to the battery? rather than the battery itself?

or should i just take it to a garage?

[stef]

could it be anything to do with the starter relay? starter motor? or anything to do with the electrics going from the starter button on the handlebar, to the battery? rather than the battery itself?

or should i just take it to a garage?

if sticking a bigger battery onto the bike works (which is what you are doing by using jump leads), then it's the battery that's a bit small.. or it's too cold. or your engine is seized up...(only kidding).
i dont think it's anything to do with the rest of the electrics. it's just that it's a heavy engine to turn...

[Capo]

how does this work ?
if the bike start with crocs connected direct to the bike's battery.. how does this incriminate the earth lead ? as far as i can see, the earth return is still through the bike's own earth lead...
if the second battery was connected + to battery + and earth to bike engine/frame (thus bypassing the earth wire) then yes, but as far as i understand, it's just a second battery in parrallel with the first one...right ?

And uses the earth of the donor machine

[reedyboy]

how does this work ?
if the bike start with crocs connected direct to the bike's battery.. how does this incriminate the earth lead ? as far as i can see, the earth return is still through the bike's own earth lead...
if the second battery was connected + to battery + and earth to bike engine/frame (thus bypassing the earth wire) then yes, but as far as i understand, it's just a second battery in parrallel with the first one...right ?
Exactly Stef!!!!!...jumping only boosts the battery that is on ya bike dude!!!..i'd like to know how a bad earth on your bike would become good through a jump start from another one??..you've still got a bad earth regardless of battery power?and seeing as your bike starts from a jump start,then a bad earth aint the problem in my book!!.unless you got lucky with ya croc clips!!!

go to www.confused.com

[stef]

And uses the earth of the donor machine

hey?
how does that work ?
earth from one bike isnt the earth of the starter motor of the other bike...
unless the frames are connected together. which in our example, they arent.
put an ohmeter between two bikes in a car park..i think you will find they are isolated !
earth aint an electrical connection.

[stef]

jumping only boosts the battery that is on ya bike dude!!!

yes, that's what i am saying. if the earth wire is fooked, a second battery wont help.

[reedyboy]

yes thats what i'm saying too...from yesterday and got told off!!!hahahaha

bloody electrics!! hahahahaaha

[retskcid]

haha, ok, so borrow the donor battery and install it - see if that works?

if you have a good battery (fully charged) and it wont start, and yet if you jump with another bike it will start, could it be that you are losing power somewhere? bad connections, etc (as suggested by others). and the jumping gives you more power and compensates?

just thinking about my situation. engines turns over slowly, but if i hook up a battery direct to starter it turns over fine - perhaps you could try that as well?

i hate fecking electrics! :worried:

[Nickj]

Bad earth = high resistance, high resistance drops voltage and available amps.
Increase available volts and the resistance drops it but overall you still have a little more.
With a starter turning over a big lump quite a small change in the available volts will make the difference between a clunk and a whirr.

Jumping a battery will, if the second battery is good or better give you more volts and there fore amps. Tennsy bit more volts then gives you a whirr

[Nickj]

Think old fashioned light dimmer switches...

[retskcid]

exactly (without the techy bits!), so try friends battery and probably have the same prob. I would remove battery completely (what I did on mine) and connect jump leads to starter. If motor turns over fine (mine did), work backwards from there.

[reedyboy]

but we're talking a brand new fully charged battery that Neil has put on!!!..so if it's good then how can somebody elses turn it over and Neils new one can't??

if there is a breakdown in the earth then it will surely breakdown regardless of donor battery being in play!!!!

bloody electrics!! i hate 'em !!!

[retskcid]

I think the techy terms mean that high resistance in the earth (bad earth) is being overcome by having two batteries hooked up.

[Jim66a]

Do the lights come on when you turn the ignition on? do they dim when you try and start the bike? Try swapping these two relays over

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e343/jim66a/Ducrelays.jpg

[reedyboy]

well,the only one who isn't joining in this conversation tonight is Neil.....and seeing as nobody seems able to offer a solution to Neils problem then i say "bollocks to it"...get a competent geezer on the job and we can all go and have a beer!!!

[neilbaldry]

hte lights do come on when i turn on the ignition. cant recall if they dim tho. i will have another look at the old girl this weekend.

[stef]

Bad earth = high resistance, high resistance drops voltage and available amps.
Increase available volts and the resistance drops it but overall you still have a little more.
With a starter turning over a big lump quite a small change in the available volts will make the difference between a clunk and a whirr.

Jumping a battery will, if the second battery is good or better give you more volts and there fore amps. Tennsy bit more volts then gives you a whirr


ok, with this explanation, it's a little clearer..i suppose like increasing the internal resistor of the power supply. but to be more accurate, a second battery wont give you more volts (unless they are in series !) a second battery will allow you to sink more current though. (for the same voltage, hence more power)

[gremlin]

if you can get it over to ours sometime this week, i can do some checks for you and re-crimp any earth wires that may be at fault. if no good seasick are only a few miles away. can run you down there and drop you back home.
Mr G

[neilbaldry]

cheers Mr. G. im not even in the same country as the bike till the weekend. but to be honest, i think i would rather take my bike to Carl Harrisons, than ****stars......

[gremlin]

no probs. your choice of dealer is far better ....lol

[neilbaldry]

ok, went to the garage after having the bike connected upto the optimate for a week. and **** on me! it started first time! turned it off, tried again 5 mins laters, and it did it again! so 3rd time lucky me thinks, and 10 minutes later, tried to start her again, and ............................ nope......... nothing........

[bod]

ok, went to the garage after having the bike connected upto the optimate for a week. and **** on me! it started first time! turned it off, tried again 5 mins laters, and it did it again! so 3rd time lucky me thinks, and 10 minutes later, tried to start her again, and ............................ nope......... nothing........

So by my thoughts on the fault....battery not been charged by opptimate,battery faulty(even though it is new it can happen but unlikely).

OR

You high high resistance in connections to starter feed or earth,as the battery voltage drops after you have started it a few times there is not enough amperage to 'jump' the poor connection/relay contacts etc.

What voltage does the battery read after it has been charged(cheap volt meters are only a £5

[neilbaldry]

i dunno, i will have to buy one.

i stuck her straight back on teh optimate after i finished.

i just went back down the garage, and fired her up, and first time! let her run for 10 minutes to get the temp up, and it were great!

[m600_888_900ss]

If youre still having problems and need some help let me know. I work in CMU and know a fair bit about electrics especially Dukes. I've had to deal with a whole variety of electrical gremlins on mine.

Regards

Andy Gannon (CMU avionics)

[The Kevlar Kid]

Are you sure this is a battery / earth fault and not fault with the cut out switch wiring as these are sometimes / often known to break?

When you say it starts the first few times after a charge, or from a jump - is this always or sometimes? have you moved the handlebars inbetween?

Try starting it with the handlebars on full left lock, and then in increments round to full right lock. If it starts when you get nearer to right lock then you probably have a break in a wire. If it makes no difference then ignore me - but this costs nothing other than about 15 mins to test out ;)

Being an S2R is this not still under warranty?

[neilbaldry]

it is still under 3 years old, but alas, i have modded much in that time, so i dont think it would be covered

Andy, are you the chap who came over when i was outside 5 hanger?

[adds666]

I had this probslem and i changed the relays mentioned before and it started working fine. then did exactually the same and stopped starting. If she dont start put her in gear. move backwards against the gear so it turns the engine over once and then back in to neutral. Start her now and it shud start. Its the started motor not having enough torque to turn her over i think and it gets stuck so moving her in gear dislodges this.

Thats wat i do if it dont start now and it works everytime

[m600_888_900ss]

it is still under 3 years old, but alas, i have modded much in that time, so i dont think it would be covered

Andy, are you the chap who came over when i was outside 5 hanger?

Yes.

:rolleyes: