New vs old service schedules

[Gilps]

Thought I would share this with you.
We took Nicky's new S2R down to the dealers on Saturday for it's 600 mile service. I was pleasantly surprised when she got the bill, about £120 ish. Mine was £240 2 years ago on my bike. The service guy explained that this reduction in cost was due to the new service schedule on the newer bikes which is a big step forward I think. He explained that after doing research Ducati realised that some of the work being done was unnecessary as the bikes didn't really need the work doing.
This led me to get the guy to compare servicing costs between my bike and Nicky's. Sure enough mine will be more expensive to service. As dealers they have to stick to the service schedules handed to them by Ducati, so in my case every 6000 miles, big service and belts every 2 years. With Nicky's bike it's once per year, plus a 7,500 mile service as and when needed, then 2 year with no belts. The belts will be done at 15,000 miles and are not dependant upon age.
So I asked him if my bike could now be serviced along the same guidlines. He said no it couldn't, but couldn't explain why. So Ducati are now saying that belts fitted to new S2R's will last for 15000 miles and only need to be replaced at that mileage, not when 2 years old. Yet they are the same belts as fitted to my bike and my bike has exaclty the same engine as the newer ones.
Figure that out.

[nambduke]

:thumbsdown: It's all about getting money out of customers. If Ducati informed the dealers to half the servicing on older models, the dealers would kick off because they would instantly loss business.

Call me cynical (me first - "cynical!!"), but if research has found that servicing can be reduced to the levels now quoted and there isn't a difference in the engine characteristics/build quality, then the new servicing regime should be able to be applied to older models.

Come on Ducati:idea: , introduce reduced servicing requirements to earlier models or at least issue some directive to apply some of the savings to earlier bikes!! It wouldn't be difficult to identify and cross reference to earlier models where the engines are the same - for example M1000/M1100ie DS engined models for instance from 02/03 onwards.

Mark Nambduke

[SazzaG]

I'm surprised that they changed the price of the 600 mile service due to the new intervals. It always struck me as a bit of a lottery what you paid for that.

I paid £50 for the first service on my 03 620, which was basically the cost of the oil and filter. Why other people were paying anything up to £250 was beyond me!

Got to agree though that if there's been no change to the bike, the service intervals should be applied to all of them.

[Nickj]

Cynical? possibly but in this case realistic might fit better.
The service schedules don't seem, until now, to have changed much from the early Pantahs. The build quality must have improved or at least got no worse since then (EXCEPT THE CLOCKS :Furious: LOL I do have a thing about them, you may have noticed).

Love the idea of belts at 15000 miles LOL You could easily imagine some pampered pets trundling round with belts over 10 years old!!

[Gilps]

:thumbsdown: It's all about getting money out of customers. If Ducati informed the dealers to half the servicing on older models, the dealers would kick off because they would instantly loss business.

Call me cynical (me first - "cynical!!"), but if research has found that servicing can be reduced to the levels now quoted and there isn't a difference in the engine characteristics/build quality, then the new servicing regime should be able to be applied to older models.

Come on Ducati:idea: , introduce reduced servicing requirements to earlier models or at least issue some directive to apply some of the savings to earlier bikes!! It wouldn't be difficult to identify and cross reference to earlier models where the engines are the same - for example M1000/M1100ie DS engined models for instance from 02/03 onwards.

Mark Nambduke

I have to agree with you. I told the guy that this was the reason that I now take any Ducati I own that is out of Warranty to an independant specialist. He didn't care either way, it's not his business at the end of the day.

[Gilps]

CynicalThe service schedules don't seem, until now, to have changed much from the early Pantahs. The build quality must have improved or at least got no worse since then (EXCEPT THE CLOCKS :Furious: LOL I do have a thing about them, you may have noticed).

Love the idea of belts at 15000 miles LOL You could easily imagine some pampered pets trundling round with belts over 10 years old!!

But in my case it's an S2R, identical to the current model. Nothing has changed. Even the service guy admitted it. Well OK, the clocks ARE different. I asked if this was to do with the old ones misting up inside in Winter. He said he couldn't possibly comment.

The point about the belts is spot on. That's why I asked if it was age dependant. He said definitley not. If the belts are on a newer bike for 10 years then no problem, as long as it has done less than 15k. If you put those same belts on my bike, with the same engine then they must be changed every two years because as we all know they will snap and cause major damage to my engine. I just don't get it.

[JerryXt]

Personally I don't want to find out the hard way. I agree that the new service schedule will save money and hassle, but when I bought Lucrezia I looked at the new schedule and decided that I would probably want the bike serviced to the previous schedule anyway. Fork oil, filters etc.

To me, the opportunity to save a couple of hundred quid is less important than the chance of major engine failure. Everybody you speak to says 'change the belts every two years'. It's the same with everything tho - you pays your money...

[Gilps]

The other funny thing was that on the way to the dealers to drop the bike off, I stopped off at the independant service guy I use to give him some money for my latest bike. He does all my servicing now. I had my service book with me as the dealer forgot to stamp it when they did my 1st year service last year and I happened to show it to my guy, along with the job sheet of what they had done and charged me for. He reckoned they hadn't done a lot of what was on the sheet. One of the items was a fuel filter. He reckoned when a new mechanic started with them some time back, who came from the dealers, he brought with him a bag of fuel filters. Apparently they never fit them as it is such a difficult job to do, yet the customer is always charged for one. I never did figure out why they charged me for a water pump gasket either, on my air cooled engine. And did the dealer really put 3 litres of Superbike Fully Synthetic oil in my wet clutch bike? I doubt it, and hope not.

[parkduc]

Can anybody with an 07 model say what the handbook says regarding the belt change. Ducati used to have these on their website but they seem to have been deleted now. I have always thought the 2 year change was daft and if really required indicative of poor design. A 15000 mile regardless of time would be far more compatible with with the car industry. Yes I know all about the smaller pulley diameter and potential belt wear but maybe a belt shouldn't therefore have been used in the first place. If belt change is really now 15000 miles it might affect what I do next.

[crust]

Pretty much everything in manufacturing has tolerances, especially so in machining.

The degree of tolerance depends on cost and quality of machine producing the finished article.

Nowadays with advances in CNC machining tolerances are available for mass production that just werent possible a few years ago.

Even small amounts of offset in machining the belt sprockets will lead to varying tensions in the belt these changes of tension will happen several times every revolution.

At 6000 rpm thatcould be 200+ stretches per second.

Now machine those sprockets on a better machine, add in better tolerances in the bearings that support the camshaft and you get less 'out of round' in the circle the belt turns at the camshaft end.

Considerably less stretches in the belt leads to longer belt life.

:) Crust

[Gilps]

Fair point Crust and I agree with you entirely. It would be applicable if revisions had taken place in the engines, but in the case of the S2R they haven't. The dealer tells me that it's the same engine in the '05 and '07 models.

[jerry]

I run a pair of monsters a M750 and S4 both circa 2001 , I think that with the latest type of belts u can go 15,000 or 3 years , but as I do my own maintainance it is irrelevant as I dont pay labour or VAT , just parts.AsDuke get older the valve clearances settles anyway and does not need so much adjustment.

[bod]

Seems to be a bit of a 'scare' about belt change intervals did mine at 2 years(30 min job) for piece of mind,majority of cars are 4 years or 40,000 miles...some even go as far as 100,000/8 years as my car does.

Has anybody had a cambelt snap? and if so how long in age millage was it overdue, as 2 years sounds like a money making scam to me!

[JerryXt]

think yourself lucky - moto rapido say belt change every year on the baby R :cry: